Archived DANGER-Brake Failure. . .Again!

[Newf Limo]

This may be inappropriate to post here, but I think it is a very dangerous problem for early Ram owners, and you should check your trucks. Especially since it turns out, I'm not the only one to experience this. Kenny had a wreck because of it, I was just lucky.



On the way home from work last night, I approached a red light while coming off the Maine Turnpike spur road by the Maine Mall. As I came up to the light at Maine Mall Road, I stepped on the brake and the pedal went almost all the way to the floor! I quickly pumped the brake but it didn't make pressure. I found some pedal pressure about 3/4 of the way to the floor, as I was slamming the transmission into a lower gear. As a last resort I was going to jump on the parking brake, but it is hard to take your foot off the brakes as you are quickly rolling into a 6 lane wide intersection. There was enough braking to get me stopped in the middle of the intersection, and there wasn't any cars or trucks coming through the intersection. Fortunately, it was late enough at night. In the daytime, that intersection is non-stop busy.



The ABS light and the red 'Brake' light came on on the instrument cluster. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, I had a hydraulic leak. Since I still had some brake pressure that would hold, I reasoned that I had one front brake working and one back. I think that is the way they arrange the brakes these days for this very reason.



This morning in the light, I was able to see that the metal brake line, along the frame and behind the fuel tank has rusted through. My Wife pushed on the brake pedal and there was a major leak. The whole left rear quarter of the undercarriage is soaked in fluid.



So, crawl under your trucks and check that area for rusty lines. If it has flaky rust, the line is compromised, and it won't tell you, but it will let you know. . . when you need them the most.



Love this engine, but I am seriously thinking about getting done with Dodge. Be careful folks.



Dennis



P. s. , Any guesses as to what I am going to be doing today, instead of going to work and earning money?

 

[mwilson]

First off I am glad that you were not injured and you kept a cool head.



That area behind the tank is an issue with anyones truck, GM's, Ford's and Dodges all suffer up here in the rust belt.



I have said it before on here that if you live in a state that treats the roads in the winter all brake and fuel lines need to be carefully gone over at least once a year.



I have seen 4 year old Chevy's that needed new brake lines in that fuel tank area.



Things rot out on vehicles up here. Not a new thing. Just happens faster now with the liquid snot that the roads are treated with.



How old is your inspecton sticker??? Why didn't the inspection station see it???



While you are there check the rest of them, I have seen the front line that follows the crossmember over to the right front wheel get punky as well.



Get the copper/nickle alloy line, won't rot out and bends/flares easily.



I know you are not going to have a fun day but it could have been much worse.



Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

A ten year old truck in service in Maine which has very long, very cold winters, with heavy snows and your state and local governments use salt or destructive chemicals on the roadways and it is Dodge's fault you have a corroded brake line?

Yep, I'd run down and trade to the nearest Furd or Govt. Motors dealer today.

Oddly, we don't have much trouble with corroded brake lines or any corrosion where I live.

 

[Newf Limo]

Nice, thanks Barlow.



I did manage to drop my tank and get the old brake line out. Funny, the metal fuel lines were as shiny and corrosion free as the day is new. So Harvey, why is it so hard to believe that I would expect quality from an American made, $40,000 truck? Especially with a part that can kill you? If the metal lines for the fuel can take it, why not make brake lines the same way? Why do they sell corrosion resistant aftermarket lines, but Dodge sends a a brand new truck out with edible brake lines as original equipment?



My 69 Nova had the same GM brake lines in it when it was in Boston for 20 years of its life and still had the original brake lines. Surface rust only, no rot and flakey stuff, and certainly no leaks! Maybe there are too many people that are willing to just accept less as being ok. No wonder the Detroit big 3 struggle to remain alive. you can't kill your customers and then expect to sell them a new vehicle. Bad buisness plan.



My Inspection sticker is an annual and is due next month. The problem is, with these second rate brake lines, how can you tell it is time? They have had rust on them for years. Everything on the truck is rusted! Going through the truck, I can't find a brake line that doesn't have a significant amount of rust on it. Having to replace the entire hydraulic line system in a 10 year old truck is absolutely ludicrous. I'm going to start peeking under some Tundras.



Thanks Mike, I will see what I can find.

 

[mwilson]

Remember we only had salt mixed with sand for road treatment back when that Nova was on the road. This liquid weasel pee currently in use is a totally different animal.



Anything that can push truck frame rails apart is way too strong for stock brake lines to take.



There should be a requirement that all brake and fuel lines be either made of stainless steel or the copper/nickle alloy from the factory.

Some foreign cars such as Volvo have made the switch several years ago.



As far as peeking under Toyota trucks I would be focusing on the frame, not the brake lines... ... :-laf



Mike.

 

[Newf Limo]

You're probably right Mike, about the Toyota. That's just mad talk. It doesn't excuse American auto makers from using substandard parts, and then boasting "American Made". That just doesn't sound like something we can be that proud of these days. I miss that. This truck has WalMart quality brake lines. That is a serious offense.



*sigh* I'm getting friggin old. . .



I have called around about the brake lines. I talked to the guy at FedHill in Mass. Nice guy, but it looks like I will have to get my stuff locally. The flaring tool is a few hundred dollars and he said it wouldn't be worth it to rent it for one line. He said the cheap flaring tools will just end up P'ing me off, so don't bother. As much as I would love to do all of the lines, I need to get back to work. This is just really bad timing.



I can get a 25' roll of the Copper-Nickle line at Auto Parts Plus, up the road. I have a friend that can do the double flare ends, but he is in Portland, a 70 mile round trip. Napa won't make the lines, they only have fixed lengths with the fittings already on the ends. You would have to throw extra bends in the line (with your tubing bender you have to buy) to burn the extra length. Not my idea of a good job.



I'll get the roll, and the fittings and take a trip in the Wife's Dodge Dakota (2001 that no doubt, needs a full compliment of brake lines as well) and have the flares done. At least I will have one good brake line!

 

[mwilson]

You can get away with using a cheaper grade of double flaring tool with the copper/nickle alloy line. It is softer so it flares much easier than the steel line.



A local Carquest or Napa may have an affordable lower line kit on hand.



Got my latest one at Sears for $69. 00 this spring.



Bought a Carquest one to do bubble flares and that has lasted well using the softer line.



Mike.

 

[Mhannink]

something that gets me about a lot of trucks in the rust belt is none of them are painted underneath. i live in cali and run through snow most of the winter. we dont even use salt on the roads never the less once a year i pressure wash and then paint every surface under my truck. i never have any rust and bolts come loose pretty easy under there. i know we dont have it anywhere near as bad as the north east but ive seen trucks over there that where treated the same way and they never have problems with rust. its actually where i got the idea to do it.



once you replace the brake lines i would wash the truck with a good degreaser like simple green or pine sole is my favorite. do a hot soapy wash if possible and then lay a nice thick coat of rust inhibitor paint. do it once a year towards the end of summer and you should never have a problem.

 

[Newf Limo]

There is way to much rust at this point to bother. I don't know anyone that has a 2nd Gen dodge ram up here that doesn't have cancer. Maine inherantly wants to destroy everything you own. Your house, tractor, truck, checking account, savings. . .



This is one of the harshest places to live I have experienced, and I am very well traveled. I thought having a California truck, mine wouldn't have the undercoating like North East trucks would have. Their are two 'local' second gen rams at work and they look exactly like mine underneath. Even the rotten door panels match!



Chevy used to dip the whole truck body into a Zinc based primer, and that seemed to help. . . except for that paint peeling off in sheets thing, but it didn't rust! Wonder how that worked out in the long run.



I'm going to have to ditch this truck, buy a new one and leave.



MIKE,



I have to go back to the parts store and change fitting sizes. I told him it was standard but he said he threaded into a metric and it fit, and wouldn't start in the SAE. I think he had his fittings backwards. I tested the fitting in the truck, and it won't even think about threading in. I removed it (one) with a 3/8ths inch wrench, but vice grips for the rotten end. That kind of led me to believe it was standard. Sill leaning in that direction. I did pick up a roll of Copper Nickle line, and it was surprisingly cheaper than Fedhill, by 10 bucks! Very lucky on that part. The down side. . . the fittings are steel.

I will take a look at the flaring tool. Thanks again Mike.

 

[Newf Limo]

Mike,



I looked at the tool at Auto Parts Plus. It is the double flare kit for about $65. It is the type that has the wing nut clamp, and it is made by KD. IS that the tool? It looked a little. . . um. . . cheap, so I was afraid to buy it without knowing if you know of a better one.



The fittings are just cheep steel, galvanized or zinc fittings. Seems pretty weird to use that with a high end tubing. I will check at NAPA for better quality ones before commiting to these with a flare. I think these will rust out in a couple years. Seems to defeat the purpose.

 

[mwilson]

Newf,



Fittings on that truck will be standard 3/16 or 1/4 tube. No metric that I can recall.



Mike.

 

[Newf Limo]

Pretty good timing on that post. 3:33. That is quicker than live chat!



You, I have the right size now, but the otherones look like a coated steel as if there was a chance they could be corrosion resistant. These look like the same stuff as a zinc nut or bolt from the hardware store. Not impressed.

 

[mwilson]

Mike,



I looked at the tool at Auto Parts Plus. It is the double flare kit for about $65. It is the type that has the wing nut clamp, and it is made by KD. IS that the tool? It looked a little. . . um. . . cheap, so I was afraid to buy it without knowing if you know of a better one.



The fittings are just cheep steel, galvanized or zinc fittings. Seems pretty weird to use that with a high end tubing. I will check at NAPA for better quality ones before commiting to these with a flare. I think these will rust out in a couple years. Seems to defeat the purpose.

The tubing nuts even as cheap as they appear will be there long after the tubing has rotted off. It's all good.



The tool from KD will be ok for your needs, if you were doing brake work every day then it would wear out.

The first one I had lasted 10 years or better doing double flares so I went with the same caliber tool this spring.



If you have not done much double flaring take a little time and practice before you begin. Buy a couple of spare tubing unions and tighten the fitting/tube assembly end into those after you flare. Then take it apart and you will see how the seat has flattened into position and centered itself. You will catch on quickly.



Mike.

 

[Newf Limo]

Cool, thanks Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

Nice, thanks Barlow.

I did manage to drop my tank and get the old brake line out. Funny, the metal fuel lines were as shiny and corrosion free as the day is new. So Harvey, why is it so hard to believe that I would expect quality from an American made, $40,000 truck? Especially with a part that can kill you? If the metal lines for the fuel can take it, why not make brake lines the same way? Why do they sell corrosion resistant aftermarket lines, but Dodge sends a a brand new truck out with edible brake lines as original equipment?

My 69 Nova had the same GM brake lines in it when it was in Boston for 20 years of its life and still had the original brake lines. Surface rust only, no rot and flakey stuff, and certainly no leaks! Maybe there are too many people that are willing to just accept less as being ok. No wonder the Detroit big 3 struggle to remain alive. you can't kill your customers and then expect to sell them a new vehicle. Bad buisness plan.

My Inspection sticker is an annual and is due next month. The problem is, with these second rate brake lines, how can you tell it is time? They have had rust on them for years. Everything on the truck is rusted! Going through the truck, I can't find a brake line that doesn't have a significant amount of rust on it. Having to replace the entire hydraulic line system in a 10 year old truck is absolutely ludicrous. I'm going to start peeking under some Tundras.

Thanks Mike, I will see what I can find.

What you consider inferior quality is completely acceptable to me and probably 95% of Dodge truck owners. The upgraded quality you now believe you are entitled to would be unwanted, unneeded, and an unnecessary additional expense to Texas buyers and those of probably every state except WI, NY, and ME.

It is much easier to pontificate about how a major manufacturer who has been in business for 100 years or so building excellent quality products should run their business and products than it is to do it.

I'm very satisfied with the quality of the three Dodge Rams I've owned and have no interest in Furds, Govt. Motors, or Toyotas but have no quarrel with those who prefer to own them.

 

[rrl989]

I replaced all my lines last year after my second failure. I used a coil of green epoxy coated line, job was easy. I eliminated all the junction blocks and now have single runs (x3) direct from the ABS controller. The only problem lines were the various sized threads up at the ABS controller, they use double inverse bubble flares ? which can't be made with the standard flaring tools. Good luck.

 

[Newf Limo]

um. . . ok.

 

[mwilson]

Don't panic, if you have to go all the way to the ABS unit they make an adaptor nut to convert from bubble flare to the tubing nuts you have in your hand. If you think you are going that far then get the fitting out of the ABS unit right now before it gets too late in the day and sack it to the parts store for comparison to get the correct adapter.



Or you can splice the existing line ahead of the tank where the material is still good.



Mike.

 

[Newf Limo]

My apologies, I didn't realize you spoke for 95% of Dodge truck owners. I shall cease to pontificate. It is good to know that these trucks are at least safe in the desert. I hadn't considered that before. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.



I'm sure the folks here would agree with you. Especially Kenny61!



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...ransmission-1994-1998/221253-intercooler.html



Or here. . .



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...222083-have-you-checked-your-brake-lines.html





I'm just sayin. . .

 

[seafish]

Have you checked out this link from one of the threads you posted--

Looks like they make a stainless steel, COMPLETE hard line kit replacement for just about any truck for $350.

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