CDL Needed? 17,000 pound tri axle

[HBarlow]

wanna bet!

I wouldn't want anyone to find out the hard way, I have learned to trust no one ESPECIALLY insurance companies and politicians.

Yes, I will gladly take your bet. But you are bluffing and not serious so I will simply ignore your offer.

This is America and you are free to believe what you wish, even when incorrect, but when you post internet rumor and bs it should be refuted for those who read here in a desire to learn FACTS.

An insurance company cannot issue a policy, collect premiums, and then refuse to pay when a claim is made. They are prevented from doing so by insurance regulators, state laws, and by the courts if they should attempt to do so. Insurance companies usually err on the side of caution rather than trying to get away with avoiding responsibility because they could lose their ability to sell insurance in a given state or be sued out of existance in a court of law. Lawsuits cost them huge losses, legal fees, and bad publicity.

Every state has insurance regulators who oversee insurance companies. An insurance company cannot sell insurance in a state without formal approval by state insurance regulators and cannot continue if they fail to follow rules imposed by regulators and legislatures.

I was an insurance adjuster several years ago. I have real experience working for one of the major nationwide insurance companies. I have paid claims even when I knew we did not owe and have sent in large claims to the state head office with a recommendation that we NOT pay a claim and been overridden and seen the claim paid anyway for the reasons I have outlined above. I have seen claims for damage paid even when our policy holder had failed to make premium payments, notification had been sent to the former insured, and the policy had been cancelled for failure to pay with proof of noticication sent.

 

[boathead]

I am not an insurance adjuster, nor do I play one on the forum. I have heard this Directly from someone who had this specific problem(and no, I did not transcribe the conversation so I have no hard evidence for you) so I am NOT bluffing and do not appreciate the inference. I am only trying to help someone avoid problems down the line. Just because your insurance company paid does not necessarily mean that all do. I would still want to verify it before I found out the hard way that I am not covered.

 

[aerialimage]

This trailer is only around 7,000 pounds which seems very light to me.

I don't think they come much lighter than this do they? Seems to me around 90% of the 5th wheels on the road are much bigger and heavier than this little unit. Also seems to me that most of these lite trailers are being towed by 1/2 tons? I guess I will have a look at those old faded tags on my drivers door but I would never have thought twice about it with the 4. 10 gears, Dual rear wheels and diesel.

 

[HBarlow]

I am not an insurance adjuster, nor do I play one on the forum. I have heard this Directly from someone who had this specific problem(and no, I did not transcribe the conversation so I have no hard evidence for you) so I am NOT bluffing and do not appreciate the inference. I am only trying to help someone avoid problems down the line. Just because your insurance company paid does not necessarily mean that all do. I would still want to verify it before I found out the hard way that I am not covered.

You are being sarcastic and insulting now because you have nothing else to back your false rumor.

Let's do it this way:

I will pay you a crisp $100 bill if you can produce verifiable evidence of one single claim where an RVer has been towing a trailer which, when the weight of the truck and weight of the trailer, combined, exceeded the manufacturer's gross combined weight rating or tow rating, and had an accident and his insurance claim was denied without payment.

I don't mean "my buddy down at the Pilot Truck Stop was talking to an RVer from wherever whose brother-in-law said his claim was denied" I mean an accident where I can verify the actual facts.

 

[HBarlow]

This trailer is only around 7,000 pounds which seems very light to me.
I don't think they come much lighter than this do they? Seems to me around 90% of the 5th wheels on the road are much bigger and heavier than this little unit. Also seems to me that most of these lite trailers are being towed by 1/2 tons? I guess I will have a look at those old faded tags on my drivers door but I would never have thought twice about it with the 4. 10 gears, Dual rear wheels and diesel.

That is extremely light for a fifth wheel. Is that manufacturer's dry weight? If so, it is useless and inaccurate number. The best figure is always the manufacturer's GVWR printed on the VIN decal. Your actual weight when the trailer is in use and ready for a weekend will be much closer to GVWR.

 

[Jim Tucker]

Redwagon 96

Have been towing 14,000lb Jayco 5er for 4 years with my 96 3500. I have replaced transmission pan with MegHytec and rearend cover with MegHytec. I have had not problems. Set crusie at 60mph and get 12 to 12. 5 mpg. I have ordered new exhaust manifold from Geno's to replace for trip from cental IL to N Dakota this fall. Have 150,000 on my Dodge.

 

[Rockranch]

Rockranch, I'm curious. What kind of backhoe do you have? I'm thinking you must have a lightweight Kubota-type to stay under your 14k trailer's limits and under your tires' rated load.

Mark31,

I do not have a lightweight Kubota-type backhoe. It is a Case 480CK of either '68 or '72 vintage. I also have a David Brown tractor that is either a '68 or '72. I can never seem to keep them straight. Anyway, the backhoe is not small, but it isn't quite as big or heavy as more modern equipment. It weighs between 8,500 and 9,000 pounds.

 

[Rockranch]

Larry,



There is a misunderstanding in this. Either the person who gave you this explanation was confused or you misunderstood.



I should probably ask: What business are you in? That is probably relevent to the information given you by DPS.



If you, for example, are retired and in no business whatseover or if you are, for another example, a stockbroker who works in a highrise office building, and own a backhoe you use around your property to do those things you mentioned, you would need a Class A Operator license to pull the trailer and transport your backhoe is actual or rated combined weight exceeds 26,000 lbs. .



If you are engaged in some business in which the trailer and backhoe are used by you in furtherance of your business activity you would be required to have a Class A Commercial Driver's License.



On Edit:



Perhaps I am mistaken. The Class A Operator License may be specifically for and limited to recreational vehicles (RVs) with actual or potential weight in excess of 26k used for personal non-commercial use. I'll go do a little more reading and post what I learn.



Second Edit:



No, I am not mistaken.



Here is the text from the TX DPS Driving Handbook:\CLASSIFIED DRIVER LICENSE (Texas Transportation Code, Section 521)

The following listed Class A, B, C, and M licenses will be issued to persons

who are exempt from obtaining a Commercial Driver License or persons who

are not required to obtain a Commercial Driver License:​

Class A driver license permits a person to drive any vehicle or combination

of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or

more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle(s) being towed



is in excess of 10,000 pounds; including a vehicle included in Class B or​

Class C, except a motorcycle or moped.

and here is the list of those who are exempted from CDL requirements:​

Commercial Driver License (CDL):​

1. A vehicle that is:​

a. controlled and operated by a farmer;



b. used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies

to or from a farm;

c. not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and

d. used within 150 miles of the person’s farm.

2. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the preservation of life

or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions, whether

operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter;

3. A military vehicle or a commercial motor vehicle when operated for military

purposes by military personnel, members of the Reserves and National

Guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time National Guard duty,

personnel on part-time training, and National Guard military technicians;

4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use;

5. A vehicle that is owned, leased, or controlled by an air carrier, as defined

by Section 21. 155 of the Transportation Code, and that is driven or operated

exclusively by an employee of the air carrier only on the premises of an airport,

as defined by Section 22. 001 of the Transportation Code, on service

roads to which the public does not have access; or

6. A vehicle used exclusively to transport seed cotton modules or cotton

burrs.

Farm-Related Service Industry (FRSI) Waiver: The Department may waive

the Commercial Driver License (CDL) knowledge and skill tests required by

Section 522. 022 of the Transportation Code, and provide for the issuance of

a restricted CDL to an employee of a farm-related service industry. Seasonal

drivers of the following FRSI are authorized by federal regulation to obtain

the FRSI waiver and be issued a restricted CDL: (1) Farm retail outlets and

suppliers; (2) agri-chemical businesses; (3) custom harvesters includes cotton

modular operators; and (4) livestock feeders. FRSI CDL’s shall be issued

for Class B and Class C vehicles only (Class A vehicles are not included in

the waiver). Texas regulations require that persons who apply for a FRSI

CDL pass a 20 question examination over Class A-B rules and a Class B

non-CDL skills test. ​

​

Harvey,

I appreciate your well researched and considered response.



To answer your questions, I am retired and not involved in any commercial activity, other than the 50 acres and 3 head of Longhorns on my place. (For now anyway) When I bought my place in Missery some 20 years ago, I needed a lot of work done and it was cheaper, and more reliable, to get the hoe and do it myself than hire it done. I am now in the process of moving to the place we bought 2 years ago in Brown county, Tx. My hope was to buy 1 trailer (20,000 GVW) to move all my stuff, from household goods to tractors, backhoes and mills and lathes. After finding out what I did, I had to go with the smaller trailer.



I read all the same things you posted. Like you, I figured that since I wasn't engaged in any commercial enterprise, or in the furtherance of one, I wouldn't need a CDL to move my own personal property. After reading the applicable Texas laws and speaking to DPS and TXDOT, I spoke with several people at the Texas CDL licensing department. We walked through everything and here is what I came to understand.



If you are driving a vehicle, or combination of vehicles, with a GVW rating over 26,000 lbs. , you will need a CDL A, unless you fall into one of the exceptions you listed. (Farmer, RV, Military, etc. ) If you use the farmer exception, your trailer must be licensed as a farm trailer and you must stay within 150 miles of the farm. They don't make it easy to find that bit of information. You must still get the class A non-CDL. Apparently, much of this is taken from, or mandated by, federal law. I checked with several other state websites and this policy seems to be closely echoed there. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is commercial use or not. If it weighs more than 26,000, you must have a CDL A, unless you fall into the very narrow exceptions already listed.



If I can find the number to the CDL division, I'll send it along in a PM.



Thanks,

Larry

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,
I appreciate your well researched and considered response.

To answer your questions, I am retired and not involved in any commercial activity, other than the 50 acres and 3 head of Longhorns on my place. (For now anyway) When I bought my place in Missery some 20 years ago, I needed a lot of work done and it was cheaper, and more reliable, to get the hoe and do it myself than hire it done. I am now in the process of moving to the place we bought 2 years ago in Brown county, Tx. My hope was to buy 1 trailer (20,000 GVW) to move all my stuff, from household goods to tractors, backhoes and mills and lathes. After finding out what I did, I had to go with the smaller trailer.

I read all the same things you posted. Like you, I figured that since I wasn't engaged in any commercial enterprise, or in the furtherance of one, I wouldn't need a CDL to move my own personal property. After reading the applicable Texas laws and speaking to DPS and TXDOT, I spoke with several people at the Texas CDL licensing department. We walked through everything and here is what I came to understand.

If you are driving a vehicle, or combination of vehicles, with a GVW rating over 26,000 lbs. , you will need a CDL A, unless you fall into one of the exceptions you listed. (Farmer, RV, Military, etc. ) If you use the farmer exception, your trailer must be licensed as a farm trailer and you must stay within 150 miles of the farm. They don't make it easy to find that bit of information. You must still get the class A non-CDL. Apparently, much of this is taken from, or mandated by, federal law. I checked with several other state websites and this policy seems to be closely echoed there. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is commercial use or not. If it weighs more than 26,000, you must have a CDL A, unless you fall into the very narrow exceptions already listed.

If I can find the number to the CDL division, I'll send it along in a PM.

Thanks,
Larry

Larry,

You have clearly done a lot of reading and information gathering and I think you have reached the correct solution except you unnessarily restricted yourself to a smaller trailer than you wanted. You could legally own and use the 20k GVWR trailer in intrastate or interstate transportation of your privately owned equipment and household effects.

Your misunderstanding seems to be with definitions as I noted with the bold and underlining in your post above.

There are two fundamental categories of licenses required to operate a motor vehicle in Texas and something similar in most other states. As you said, all state transportation codes are based on federal DOT code.

I will only speak specifically about Texas. You can (and must) have a drivers license or a commercial drivers license. You are retired and not engaged in the furtherance of commercial enterprise and not hauling for-hire so all you are required to have is a drivers license. To be legal to operate a combination motor vehicle and trailer with combined rated (GVWR) or actual (scale) weight of in excess of 26,000 lbs. where the trailer weighs more than 10,000 lbs. you are required to have a Class A Drivers License. Notice that the word "commercial" does not appear anywhere in the name of that license. That license is not related to a CDL in any way. It allows you to drive and haul the same weights as a CDL driver but not while engaged in commercial activity.

I believe that is the license you have. It is also the license I have. I obtained and held a CDL Class A severl years ago when I was hauling trailers for hire but voluntarily surrendered it last summer in trade for a Class A Drivers License. I did that because the standards imposed on a CDL holder are much more strict than those imposed on a holder of a Class A Driver License.

I quoted the description of a Class A Drivers License in my post above. It allows you to drive a heavy pickup or light truck and pull a heavy trailer with combination weights exceeding 26k in personal, private use.

Now let me throw another bit of information in to further entertain and perhaps I have stumbled upon the reason why TX DPS told you to avoid the 20k trailer.

You stated you own 50 acres and three head of cattle. Technically, if you haul one of those cows to market or later expand your herd by buying and hauling more cows to your place with a 20k trailer not plated for farm use only you would be in furtherance of commercial activity. If you haul the same cows to or from the market with the 14k GVWR trailer plated for highway use you are engaged in furtherance of commercial activity but your gross combined rated or actual weight will not exceed 13 tons so you'l be okay.

Looked at another way, you could have purchased the 20k GVWR trailer and used it to haul your heavy equipment and household effects from Misery to Texas with highway plates and then the following year and subsequent years you could have registered it for farm use only and hauled cows as often as you wish.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,
I appreciate your well researched and considered response.

To answer your questions, I am retired and not involved in any commercial activity, other than the 50 acres and 3 head of Longhorns on my place. (For now anyway) When I bought my place in Missery some 20 years ago, I needed a lot of work done and it was cheaper, and more reliable, to get the hoe and do it myself than hire it done. I am now in the process of moving to the place we bought 2 years ago in Brown county, Tx. My hope was to buy 1 trailer (20,000 GVW) to move all my stuff, from household goods to tractors, backhoes and mills and lathes. After finding out what I did, I had to go with the smaller trailer.

I read all the same things you posted. Like you, I figured that since I wasn't engaged in any commercial enterprise, or in the furtherance of one, I wouldn't need a CDL to move my own personal property. After reading the applicable Texas laws and speaking to DPS and TXDOT, I spoke with several people at the Texas CDL licensing department. We walked through everything and here is what I came to understand.

If you are driving a vehicle, or combination of vehicles, with a GVW rating over 26,000 lbs. , you will need a CDL A, unless you fall into one of the exceptions you listed. (Farmer, RV, Military, etc. ) If you use the farmer exception, your trailer must be licensed as a farm trailer and you must stay within 150 miles of the farm. They don't make it easy to find that bit of information. You must still get the class A non-CDL. Apparently, much of this is taken from, or mandated by, federal law. I checked with several other state websites and this policy seems to be closely echoed there. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is commercial use or not. If it weighs more than 26,000, you must have a CDL A, unless you fall into the very narrow exceptions already listed.

If I can find the number to the CDL division, I'll send it along in a PM.

Thanks,
Larry

Larry,

You have clearly done a lot of reading and information gathering and I think you have reached the correct solution except you unnessarily restricted yourself to a smaller trailer than you wanted. You could legally own and use the 20k GVWR trailer in intrastate or interstate transportation of your privately owned equipment and household effects.

Your misunderstanding seems to be with definitions as I noted with the bold and underlining in your post above.

There are two fundamental categories of licenses required to operate a motor vehicle in Texas and something similar in most other states. As you said, all state transportation codes are based on federal DOT code.

I will only speak specifically about Texas. You can (and must) have a drivers license or a commercial drivers license. You are retired and not engaged in the furtherance of commercial enterprise and not hauling for-hire so all you are required to have is a drivers license. To be legal to operate a combination motor vehicle and trailer with combined rated (GVWR) or actual (scale) weight of in excess of 26,000 lbs. where the trailer weighs more than 10,000 lbs. you are required to have a Class A Drivers License. Notice that the word "commercial" does not appear anywhere in the name of that license. That license is not related to a CDL in any way. It allows you to drive and haul the same weights as a CDL driver but not while engaged in commercial activity.

I believe that is the license you have. It is also the license I have. I obtained and held a CDL Class A several years ago when I was hauling trailers for hire but voluntarily surrendered it last summer in trade for a Class A Drivers License. I did that because the standards imposed on a CDL holder are much more strict than those imposed on a holder of a Class A Driver License.

I quoted the description of a Class A Drivers License in my post above. It allows you to drive a heavy pickup or light truck and pull a heavy trailer with combination weights exceeding 26k in personal, private use. Here it is again for clarity:

1.

Class A driver license permits a person to drive any vehicle or combination

of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or
more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle(s) being towed
is in excess of 10,000 pounds; including a vehicle included in Class B or
Class C, except a motorcycle or moped. ​

Now let me throw another bit of information in to further entertain and perhaps I have stumbled upon the reason why TX DPS told you to avoid the 20k trailer.

You stated you own 50 acres and three head of cattle. Technically, if you haul one of those cows to market or later expand your herd by buying and hauling more cows to your place with a 20k trailer not plated for farm use only you would be in furtherance of commercial activity. If you haul the same cows to or from the market with the 14k GVWR trailer plated for highway use you are engaged in furtherance of commercial activity but your gross combined rated or actual weight will not exceed 13 tons so you'l be okay.

Looked at another way, you could have purchased the 20k GVWR trailer and used it to haul your heavy equipment and household effects from Misery to Texas with highway plates and then the following year and subsequent years you could have registered it for farm use only and hauled cows as often as you wish.
​

 

[aerialimage]

That is extremely light for a fifth wheel. Is that manufacturer's dry weight? If so, it is useless and inaccurate number. The best figure is always the manufacturer's GVWR printed on the VIN decal. Your actual weight when the trailer is in use and ready for a weekend will be much closer to GVWR.

The factory tag is rather faded and very hard to read but the seller said he thought it was around 7K and the tag looks like it says 7K GVWR the metric rating is a little less faded maybe I can take that and just convert it.

 

[HBarlow]

The factory tag is rather faded and very hard to read but the seller said he thought it was around 7K and the tag looks like it says 7K GVWR the metric rating is a little less faded maybe I can take that and just convert it.

Could be. I'm not famiar with that specific trailer. I would normally guess 8,000 to 10,000 lbs. but that's only a guess.

 

[Rockranch]

Harvey and the rest of my truck driving brethren,



I have done more research into the discussion Harvey and I have been having about the need for a CDL. I have re-read the Texas Drivers Handbook and spoken to no less than 3 officials in the Texas licensing and enforcement departments. I do not do this to be argumentative or to "win" the discussion. There seems to be a mis-conception about when one needs a CDL and I don't want anyone of us to get caught out.



According to the handbook and what I was told by a licensing examiner, a person in the Texas CDL division and a TXDOT DPS officer, if you are driving a combination of vehicles with a gross weight over 26,000 pounds, you must have a CDL unless you fall into one of the 6 narrow exemptions. It matters not if there is no commercial activity involved. PERIOD. Following are excerpts from the handbook.



COMMERCIAL DRIVER LICENSE (CDL) - (Transportation Code, Chapter



522)



See SPECIAL NOTE on page 1-7.



The holder of a valid Commercial Driver License may drive all vehicles in the



class for which that license is issued, and all lesser classes of vehicles



except motorcycles and mopeds. Vehicles that require an endorsement may



not be driven unless the proper endorsement appears on the license.



Authorization to operate motorcycles must be shown on the Commercial



Driver License.



1. Class A Commercial Driver License permits a person to drive any combination



of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds



or more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle or vehicles



being towed exceeds 10,000 pounds.









Exemptions: Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a



Commercial Driver License (CDL):



1. A vehicle that is:



a. controlled and operated by a farmer;



b. used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies



to or from a farm;



c. not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and



d. used within 150 miles of the person's farm.



2. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the preservation of life



or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions, whether



operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter;



3. A military vehicle or a commercial motor vehicle when operated for military



purposes by military personnel, members of the Reserves and National



Guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time National Guard duty,



personnel on part-time training, and National Guard military technicians;



4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use;



5. A vehicle that is owned, leased, or controlled by an air carrier, as defined



by Section 21. 155 of the Transportation Code, and that is driven or operated



exclusively by an employee of the air carrier only on the premises of an airport,



as defined by Section 22. 001 of the Transportation Code, on service



roads to which the public does not have access; or



6. A vehicle used exclusively to transport seed cotton modules or cotton



burrs.







CLASSIFIED DRIVER LICENSE (Texas Transportation Code, Section 521)



The following listed Class A, B, C, and M licenses will be issued to persons



who are exempt (See above) from obtaining a Commercial Driver License or persons who



are not required to obtain a Commercial Driver License:



1. Class A driver license permits a person to drive any vehicle or combination



of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or



more, provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the vehicle(s) being towed



is in excess of 10,000 pounds; including a vehicle included in Class B or



Class C, except a motorcycle or moped.







Exemptions: Persons operating the following vehicles are exempt from a



Commercial Driver License (CDL):



1. A vehicle that is:



a. controlled and operated by a farmer;



b. used to transport agricultural products, farm machinery, or farm supplies



to or from a farm;



c. not used in the operations of a common or contract motor carrier; and



d. used within 150 miles of the person's farm.



2. A fire-fighting or emergency vehicle necessary to the preservation of life



or property or the execution of emergency governmental functions, whether



operated by an employee of a political subdivision or by a volunteer fire fighter;



3. A military vehicle or a commercial motor vehicle when operated for military



purposes by military personnel, members of the Reserves and National



Guard on active duty, including personnel on full-time National Guard duty,



personnel on part-time training, and National Guard military technicians;



4. A recreational vehicle that is driven for personal use;



5. A vehicle that is owned, leased, or controlled by an air carrier, as defined



by Section 21. 155 of the Transportation Code, and that is driven or operated



exclusively by an employee of the air carrier only on the premises of an airport,



as defined by Section 22. 001 of the Transportation Code, on service



roads to which the public does not have access; or



6. A vehicle used exclusively to transport seed cotton modules or cotton



burrs.



They do not present this information in this order, in the book. Maybe they should. The way I read this, and the way it was explained by all three individuals, is that if you are over 26K and you do not fall exactly within the exceptions, you must have a CDL to be legal. It doesn't matter if you are hauling your own personal property for yourself from one house to another. If it is over 26K, and you are not a farmer, within 150 miles of your farm, or driving a firefighting or emergency vehicle, or driving a military vehicle, or a recreational vehicle, or a vehicle owned by an air carrier, or you are carrying seed cotton modules, you need a CDL. The only people eligible for the Class A(non-CDL) license are those within these 6 exemptions. Bottom line, that's it. Like many of you, I had a hard time wrapping my mind around it. I just couldn't see needing a COMMERCIAL drivers license if I wasn't engaged in any commercial activity. Apparently, somewhere along the way the Feds have made it so. I checked with several other state web pages and they all seem to reflect what I have found in Texas law. I'm sure there will be some that say that they get away without having one. I say, lucky you. I can't afford to roll those dice. Mr. Murphy seems to always be my co-pilot, so I don't take too many chances.







So there it is. I am sure of my information. Do with it, what you will. I hope this helps someone avoid a ticket.







Larry

 

[HBarlow]

Larry,

I read your post and the enclosed quotes from TX statutes or drivers manuals and thought, well, maybe I've been wrong. I know that you are struggling to obtain the best and most accurate information you can and not trying to be argumentive or to win an argument based on BS as some TDR members try to do.

I too am trying always to disseminate accurate information here. I can take a blow to my ego if I am wrong and once in awhile I am.

After carefully reading your post I picked up the phone and called the Lubbock DPS office and asked to speak a sergeant or lieutenant in the CVE (Commercial Vehicle Enforcement) section. A DPS sergeant took the call and I laid out my scenario.

I told him I had previously held a TX CDL A but knew I was not going to haul for hire any more and surrendered it voluntarily last summer in exchange for a Class A Operator License. I explained that I tow my own personal heavy fifth wheel RV. I explained that I also own a tandem gooseneck hydraulic dump trailer and occasionally use it to haul crushed rock out of the R E Janes pit near Slaton or a load of garden fertilizer out of a supplier in Lubbock to my farmhouse in Crosby County. I told him sometimes I scale a little over 26,000 lbs. coming out of the pit and had recently received contradictory information and feared I had made a mistale by surrendering my CDL A.

I asked, "am I legal with a Class A Operators License, not a CDL A if I exceed 26k?"

His initial reply was it depends on what you're doing with the material. I further explained it is my truck, my trailer, my gravel, my farmhouse driveways. Not for anyone else and not for sale. Completely NON-Commercial!

He asked further: "Do you live in a farmhouse?" I usually refer to my place as a farmhouse but I raise no crops, no livestock, nothing farm related except that it is an old farmhouse on a corner of what was once a large cotton farm.

The DPS sergeant ultimately told me: "If you are hauling it only for yourself and you are not a farmer or engaged in any form of commercial activity you are legal with a Class A Operators License. "

CDL A is not required in Texas for private hauling over 26k.

If you are asking the question of anyone but a captain, lieutenant, or sergeant in the CVE section you are not getting good information. Perhaps they believe you are a farmer or raising some livestock which means you are engaged in some form of commercial activity. They consider it commercial hauling and a CDL A would be required.

I have seen cases where lawyers gave out bad information on this subject because few people other than supervisory DPS commercial enforcement officers and a few senior troopers in commercial enforcement really understand.

 

[Rockranch]

Harvey,



Thank you for the information. Now I am really confused. Perhaps because you used to have a CDL A, now have a Class A license and only occasionally exceed 26,000, in addition to needing the Class A for your RV, do they consider it acceptable. I don't know. I made it very clear to all the people I spoke with, that I had no commercial activity whatsoever. Same answer. CDL A.



I will do some more digging and ask more questions, farther up the chain of command. If you , or the rest of the list would prefer, we could take this off list until we figure it out.



Thank you,

Larry

 

[HBarlow]

Larry,

No, my former CDL A should have no bearing on the matter. I don't think that would even show up in a DPS or police patrol car during a road side stop and a record of it probably only exists in records in DPS license bureau in Austin. I sure won't tell an officer about it if he pulls me over for being slightly over the speed limit.

It is a common and often frustrating problem you are dealing with. I have talked to lots of drivers when I was transporting who claimed they were given conflicting or wrong information in their home states. I have run across a few who simply could not understand and catalog all the variations in what is the law one time but not the next as details changed. The law is complex.

In late 2004, after I was hired and invited to Wakarusa, IN to undergo a week of training and pull trailers for Horizon Transport but before I left home I called the same Lubbock Regional DPS office and talked to a lieutenant in commercial enforcement. I don't remember now if I asked specifically for a senior officer or simply got lucky. But he, of course, was very knowledgeable and smart enough to explain it well to a lay person who was clueless at that time. It was a very beneficial phone call.

The conversation with him impressed me and things I have picked up in the years since have added to the learning experience and made it clear to me that commercial enforcement is a specialized area of law and vehicle transportation. Most ordinary police officers and highway enforcement troopers are unfamilar with commercial enforcement laws and enforcement policy.

I probably don't actually have to have the Class A Operator License for my fifthwheel RV trailer. I think my truck and fifthwheel probably scale a little under 26k. I scaled it once when my truck was new but was on the highway and misplaced the weight ticket. But the fact that I own and occasionally tow my tandem dump trailer overloaded with crushed rock and already had a CDL A that I could trade for a Class A Operator License without taking any further tests and get out from under the strict enforcement policy that goes with a CDL A made it attractive to me.

I am completely comfortable with keeping the discussion here on TDR. The discussion is useful and I don't care about being proven wrong in public. The point to me is sharing or learning new information, not being right.

It is a beneficial discussion to many silent readers who may never post, may not even be paying members, but browse and learn here.

People we never heard of and may never hear of read here. I know that some Cummins, Inc. engineers read TDR and probably some Dodge folks as well. State or DPS officials may read here for all we know.