Better RV Brands?

[HBarlow]

My continued low opinion of Lippert components has nothing to do with concern for providing Hoosier jobs and it should not. My opinion also is not influenced by the parent company Drew industries.

My opinion of Lippert components is backed up by hundreds of owner reports right here in TDR as well as by Grizzly's guidebook. The facts represent themselves and LIppert.

 

[DFark]

We are looking at a 2004 Crossroads Cruiser 28 RL, in excellent condition for $ 12,500. I see where it is made in Indiana. Do you know what chassis is under these units? The Crossroads website says the axles are rated at 5200 lbs. each. The wheels are 15" with 6 bolt hubs, and it has Goodyear Marathon tires. Just wondering if this is a Lippert chassis under it. It has been a weekend unit and stored in a barn in the off season.
Thanks

 

[HBarlow]

I don't know but if I had to answer I would guess it is likely to be Lippert. If you have the opportunity to crawl under and inspect the axles you may find manufacturer tags.

You could call Crossroads and ask. They will know but may not care to disclose the answer.

If the spring hangers are welded on the bottom of the frame rails without outside brackets running alongside the frame and spring perches to stiffen the mount it probably indicates a Lippert technique for installation of spring mounts. It is a poor technique. TDR members have reported failure at one of those welds and detachment of a spring and axle.

 

[DFark]

I don't know but if I had to answer I would guess it is likely to be Lippert. If you have the opportunity to crawl under and inspect the axles you may find manufacturer tags.

You could call Crossroads and ask. They will know but may not care to disclose the answer.

If the spring hangers are welded on the bottom of the frame rails without outside brackets running alongside the frame and spring perches to stiffen the mount it probably indicates a Lippert technique for installation of spring mounts. It is a poor technique. TDR members have reported failure at one of those welds and detachment of a spring and axle.

Pretty sure it is Harvey because when I saw the axles and perches I just noticed they seemed to be pretty light, and am almost certain they were welded to the bottom of the frame. If we look at the unit again I will take a better look. I know there were no shocks, or any grease fittings on any of the leaf spring shackles or the walking tandem.
Thanks Harvey

 

[Grizzly]

We are looking at a 2004 Crossroads Cruiser 28 RL, in excellent condition for $ 12,500. I see where it is made in Indiana. Do you know what chassis is under these units? The Crossroads website says the axles are rated at 5200 lbs. each. The wheels are 15" with 6 bolt hubs, and it has Goodyear Marathon tires. Just wondering if this is a Lippert chassis under it. It has been a weekend unit and stored in a barn in the off season.

Thanks

This particular model is rated 3 stars on RV Consumer Group. Most other Cruiser by Crossroads are rated 3. 5 stars. The guide doesn't say what axles and frame are under these units. Look it up on-line or call the manufacture as Harvey suggested.



Here's what the staff of RV Consumer has to say about Crossroads:

Crossroads RV is a Thor company, purchased by Wade Thompson's investment company in 2004. Originally opened in 1998, Crossroads has always specialized in towables. Crossroads quickly established a reputation for well-built, quality trailers and fifth wheels, but, after 2000, found itself limited in the low-volume, high-end market.

Although they were making a good product, they were on the verge of going under in 2003 when it was decided to add a "more mainstream" product, the Cruiser. That decision helped turn things around and to inspire industry giant Thor to purchase Crossroads in 2004. Since then, Crossroads has undergone an almost complete makeover. With headquarters in Topeka, Indiana, Thor's version of Crossroads has moved increasingly toward entry-level and mid-priced offerings. Thor claims to have doubled Crossroads' sales during the years between 2005 and 2008 by filling RV niches not being served by other manufacturers.



Construction Comments by JD Gallant of RVCG:

I discovered years ago that Crossroads has a very efficient plant and a workforce that produces good workmanship. As much as I've searched though, I haven't found the company innovative in any way except for their bolted together framing. (No welding!) Mostly, they use construction techniques that are wanted by their customer base. It must work for them since they sell a lot of high-quality product with things like aluminum framing, fiberglass skin, rubber roof, and sturdy floor. Well, there's a brand or two made with stick and tin, but I'm sure that's a philosophy weakness: A belief that they can capture more of the entry-level market -- where Crossroads isn't. I've checked them out at the factory and many times at shows and have been amazed at the lack of flaws. However, since Thor took over, my job of finding flaws has gotten easier.



george

 

[FPettijohn]

Harvey

After your reply (should have done it the other way around) I did a google of LIppert frames and you are absolutely spot on about their quality! Every RV forum has multiple horror stories about weld cracks and axle mount breaks. How they keep from being sued is the biggest question on most forums. I did look at their disclaimer and it says "

Quote-Here is the official statement and disclaimer direct quote from Lippert"-



"LIPPERT COMPONENTS relies upon the engineering professionals of those that purchase its Products to design and specify a Product of sufficient size, dimension, strength and durability to support the structure the Purchaser intends to place upon the Product, and to design and specify a Product that is sufficient and adequate to function in the role the Purchaser intends to use and/or produced by its Purchasers and builds Products pursuant to those design specifications. "

Sort of a pass the buck statement! I do apologize for questioning you reasoning, I will look before I leap the next time.

Fred

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey
After your reply (should have done it the other way around) I did a google of LIppert frames and you are absolutely spot on about their quality! Every RV forum has multiple horror stories about weld cracks and axle mount breaks. How they keep from being sued is the biggest question on most forums. I did look at their disclaimer and it says "
Quote-Here is the official statement and disclaimer direct quote from Lippert"-

"LIPPERT COMPONENTS relies upon the engineering professionals of those that purchase its Products to design and specify a Product of sufficient size, dimension, strength and durability to support the structure the Purchaser intends to place upon the Product, and to design and specify a Product that is sufficient and adequate to function in the role the Purchaser intends to use and/or produced by its Purchasers and builds Products pursuant to those design specifications. "
Sort of a pass the buck statement! I do apologize for questioning you reasoning, I will look before I leap the next time.
Fred

Fred,

I admire you for returning with that information and appreciate your response. It takes character to return to the website and admit being mistaken. You were primarily defending the economy and manufacturers of your state and that is understandable.

I believe that the manufacturers share the blame and responsibility when they purchase Lippert frames. They know or should know what they're getting when they make the decision to buy Lippert frames.

I am a fan of NuWa, the CEO, the managers and staff, and their products because overall it is a fine company that builds an excellent product and provides exceptional service after the sale. But when NuWa made the decision several years ago to replace the frames in some of their models that had always been built by their long-time supplier Young's Frames down the street from their plant with Lippert frames they knew or should have known what would result. I looked at some bare Lippert frames on a storage lot in Chanute and have also inspected many of the more substantial white powder coated Young's Frames. The difference was obvious to me, a novice.

Quality costs more money. Business decisions are sometimes made primarily to reduce costs. Sometimes those decisions go bad long term and are regretted.

 

[DFark]

Thanks George for looking that up in your guide. What I take from that is maybe the 2004 model that I'm looking at may be made better than the newer Thor units. It appears to be made well, if you like aluminum framing, but the running gear looks weak to me but there again I am used to 8 lug wheels and 16" tires on my livestock and equipment trailers.

 

[Grizzly]

Thanks George for looking that up in your guide. What I take from that is maybe the 2004 model that I'm looking at may be made better than the newer Thor units. It appears to be made well, if you like aluminum framing, but the running gear looks weak to me but there again I am used to 8 lug wheels and 16" tires on my livestock and equipment trailers.

You would be wise to keep looking. There are many other 4 star rated 5th wheels in your price range out there. Some of which have been mentions on these posts. Even an 04 Crossroads sounds a little iffy to me, because that is when they were bought out by Thor and the quality started to go downhill.

 

[DFark]

I called crossroads and was put on with a salesman, and I asked him if the 2004 Cruisers had a Lippert frame and he said, well it could be but he wasn't sure. Kind of the answer you guys expected me to get. Anyhow thank you again, and we will keep looking after we purchase the RV guide Grizzly suggested. :-laf

 

[WMcGuire]

Well Thad you got a lot of advice, keep in mind anyone who touts a particular brand probably owns one or a friend owns one, there are some good makes and a lot of pretty bad ones, considering where you live, Ohio, IMHO you should look at the ones built close by in Indiana, they all will have defects and things to fix, slide outs have a high rate of problems, if manufacturer warranty service was the number one criteria I would propose Northwood (Arctic Fox), they have the best but unless there is a good dealer close by that isn't going to help, Quality?? the latest technology isn't always the best, proven materials and workmanship is best.

 

[Grizzly]

Well Thad you got a lot of advice, keep in mind anyone who touts a particular brand probably owns one or a friend owns one, there are some good makes and a lot of pretty bad ones, considering where you live, Ohio, IMHO you should look at the ones built close by in Indiana, they all will have defects and things to fix, slide outs have a high rate of problems, if manufacturer warranty service was the number one criteria I would propose Northwood (Arctic Fox), they have the best but unless there is a good dealer close by that isn't going to help, Quality?? the latest technology isn't always the best, proven materials and workmanship is best.

I have a Northwood built Arctic Fox 5er, which we ordered from a dealer 1000 miles from home. We drove that far because we wanted an Arctic Fox and the dealer in Pinehurst, Idaho gave me the best price by far. We did make a one week vacation out of it, which resulted in braking-in the new AF 5er.



There is no advantage in purchasing a new 5er or TT from a near by dealer. If you need warranty work, which we didn't, Northwood Mfg said that I could take it anywhere I wanted, as long as they approve of the shop, and they would pay for it. There was an Arctic Fox dealer in Albuquerque, but they were so shady that Northwood Mfg canceled them as a dealer.

 

[HBarlow]

Well Thad you got a lot of advice, keep in mind anyone who touts a particular brand probably owns one or a friend owns one, there are some good makes and a lot of pretty bad ones, considering where you live, Ohio, IMHO you should look at the ones built close by in Indiana, they all will have defects and things to fix, slide outs have a high rate of problems, if manufacturer warranty service was the number one criteria I would propose Northwood (Arctic Fox), they have the best but unless there is a good dealer close by that isn't going to help, Quality?? the latest technology isn't always the best, proven materials and workmanship is best.

Not necessarily. I will disagree with that statement. Arctic Fox may be excellent but it is not the best.

NuWa's (HitchHiker) has an exceptionally fine service department at the factory in Chanute, KS where the trailers are built. I pull my fifthwheel all the way to Kansas whenever I want any repair or upgrade done because of the outstanding service and very fair pricing of anything they do.

I do agree completely with your opening statement though. In fact, that is one of the greatest limitations of internet advice. Some who have bought junk products strive mightily to convince others to buy the same junk, apparently to make them feel better about their own purchase.

 

[Grizzly]

Harvey,



Arctic Fox is not the best trailer made. That distinction belong to New Horizon, which is the only 5 star rated trailer. Hitchhiker, Excel, Kountry Aire, Sunnybrook, Bigfoot and a few others are 4. 5 star rated. Sunnybrook makes many trailers under different names, most of which are 4. 5 star rated.



I will say that Arctic Fox, which is 4 star rated, is one of the best in there price range, IMO. There are many other 4 star rated trailers that are worth considering.



There are no Keystone, Forest River, Fleetwood, Gulf Stream and KZ trailers in the 4 star or the 3. 5 star ratings.



This information is taken from my current RV Consumer Guide.

 

[WMcGuire]

Harvey,



Arctic Fox is not the best trailer made. That distinction belong to New Horizon, which is the only 5 star rated trailer. Hitchhiker, Excel, Kountry Aire, Sunnybrook, Bigfoot and a few others are 4. 5 star rated. Sunnybrook makes many trailers under different names, most of which are 4. 5 star rated.



I will say that Arctic Fox, which is 4 star rated, is one of the best in there price range, IMO. There are many other 4 star rated trailers that are worth considering.



There are no Keystone, Forest River, Fleetwood, Gulf Stream and KZ trailers in the 4 star or the 3. 5 star ratings.



This information is taken from my current RV Consumer Guide.

Just to be clear, my intent wasn't to say Arctic Fox is the best, I meant that their after sale warranty service is arguably in the top tier, as for who makes the best trailer, that is totally subjective, of course the one you own is the best..... but keep in mind the ratings are based on how much the manufacturer pays the various rating agencies whether its Consumer Guide, BBB or any Chamber of Commerce..... its the 'pay to play' business... . some of my best purchases were panned by Consumer Digest.

 

[Bill Carlyle]

Griz



I never paid any attention to the rating. If my wife likes it then it"s a done deal. What is my new 2011 Mobile suite rated at. I hope it is pretty good.



Bill Carlyle

 

[WMcGuire]

Griz



I never paid any attention to the rating. If my wife likes it then it"s a done deal. What is my new 2011 Mobile suite rated at. I hope it is pretty good.



Bill Carlyle

See! Now don't pay any attention to the ratings, We had one of the worst trailers ever made (Aristocrat Lo Liner), but we were young and the trailer was easy to pull behind almost any car in 1967, we had too much fun.....



Wish I could re-live those days of wine and roses

 

[Bill Carlyle]

I guess we have been lucky. We have had a Shasta trailer back in the seventies and then a Holiday rambler tr. and two Avion 5th wheels before bying our first Mobile Suite in 2005 and now a 2011 Mobile Suite. We always tried to by what we thought was a well built trailer but never looked for the rating. If it looked like it was well built and we liked the floor plan we bought it.



Bill

 

[Grizzly]

Griz



I never paid any attention to the rating. If my wife likes it then it"s a done deal. What is my new 2011 Mobile suite rated at. I hope it is pretty good.



Bill Carlyle

Bill, I believe you should pay attention to the ratings, especially RV Consumer Guide. They're not just blowing smoke up your ___. They really do their research and call it like it is and they're not being bought as you say.



Your wife or any wife is the worst person to listen to. If I'd listen to my wife I'd have a Keystone Cougar or Montana with a very small frame and shoddy workmanship. She liked the Cougar and Montana because they have very nice fancy interior and colors with all the glitter. I bought an Arctic Fox because it has a heavy frame made in their own plant and has Dexter running gear. It's not full of foo foo stuff, but it does have good workmanship.



All Mobile Suites are 4 star rated.



A commentary by RVCG staff;

DRV (formerly DoubleTree) started life as a Sunnybrook RV subsidiary in 2000 when Dave Fought, one of Sunnybrook's founders, decided he'd had enough of retirement. While Sunnybrook aimed its products at the entry and midlevel markets, DoubleTree's management decided to focus on luxury fifth wheels to be built separately from Sunnybrooks in their Howe, Indiana facility. Their goal was to tap the fulltime and snowbird markets. The first Mobile Suites fifth wheels rolled off the production line in 2002. During 2005-2007, the Elite Suites and Select Suites were unveiled.

In 2003, DoubleTree was purchased by a private equity group, with the original partners remaining in charge. But then, in 2007, they repurchased DoubleTree, now independent from Sunnybrook with its own plant and dealer network. Dave Fought and his son also own Cruiser RV (formerly Shadow Cruiser), which builds entry-level lightweight trailers (Fun Finder X and Fun Finder Xtra) in a separate plant. In early 2008, the company announced a name change to DRV Inc. to avoid confusion with the Doubletree hotel chain.



Construction Comments by JD Gallant;

First of all, DoubleTree and DRV are the same company. Don't get confused over the name change. It's easy to do. Understanding DoubleTree's construction techniques is much easier since they're all built the same. On the highlines they use aluminum framing and fiberglass walls with a moisture barrier, foam, another moisture barrier, then the lauan. It makes a good wall. The roof and floor are likewise well constructed and insulated. Most of the roofs are covered with vinyl, which wouldn't have been my choice. Otherwise, from what I have seen, both the workmanship and material on the structure have been superb. Although I've found a few flaws inside, these were minor -- almost nitpicking.

 

[Bill Carlyle]

Grizzly



Thanks for the info. We have been to the plant in Howe, In. We know David, the President and Dan Tower in charge of sales. What I wanted to say is that there is and has been a Double-Tree Hotel chain and they were going to sue if the name was not changed and so the name was changed to DRV



We see Dan at the Tampa RV show every year and I think that is what gets us in trouble. We need to stay away from the RV shows.



We always had Holiday Rambler, and 3 Avions. A trailer and 2 5th wheels until we got our first Mobile Suite.