Mathematical Genius HELP

[GHarman]

Cathodic Protection

BIGNASTY, You mentioned 2 vertical pipe in the ground. How deep and are they in concrete? Any place you could install a sacrificial anode(on each one) to prevent corrosion and rust through underground? Please see;



Galvanic anode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



GregH

 

[fest3er]

BIGNASTY, You mentioned 2 vertical pipe in the ground. How deep and are they in concrete? Any place you could install a sacrificial anode(on each one) to prevent corrosion and rust through underground? Please see;



Galvanic anode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



GregH

The things one learns here!

 

[GHarman]

rust/corrosion

Neal, Iron/steel does not require oxygen to rust or corrode. All it needs is an electrical potential. Some soils are hotter than others. When you have a steel structure in contact with the ground, you have two methods of corrosion remediation. Isolation or anodes. In the case of underground pipelines, for example, both methods are used. The pipe has a thick coating of tar and paper(in the old days), or epoxy. Where the ends are welded together, that bare pipe is hand coated . An anode will be attached according to measured readings from the soil across to the pipe(a complete circuit). Any flaw in the pipe coating(called a holiday) in a high potential area will result in a hole in the pipe in a relatively short period of time. The anode will slow down any corrosion activity. Wires are attached to the pipe and run above ground to access boxes so pipeline engineers can conduct regular corrosion potential surveys as part of the pipeline monitoring program.

I learned about corrosion during my time as a pipeline welder and installer. GregH

 

[fest3er]

Technically, it does need oxygen. From somewhere, not necessarily air (buried pipelines aren't usually exposed to much air). There's usually enough water and salts around the metal to conduct electricity, anywhere from real well to barely at all. And water's a good source of oxygen and hydrogen.

The current (free electrons) splits water into hydrogen and hydroxyl ions (H+ and OH-). Ions *really* don't like to stay that way (just as many men and women don't like to stay single); they'll combine with darned near anything. And iron, since it has too many electrons, readily gives up a couple. It's the same effect when you use an old, wore out silver-plated spoon. If you have amalgam fillings, current flows and the spoon tastes 'metallic'. Years ago, curiosity got the better of me; I measured about 1. 5 volts in my mouth. So it makes complete sense that underground metal pipes would suffer the same problems, but on a larger scale.

I've known for many years that some ions like some metals much more than others. In one experiment, I mixed up a little HCL and a bit of mercury. Then dropped a penny into it. Wasn't long before the penny was a bright, shiny, mirror color. If I left it in long enough, the penny stayed that way for quite a long time. The ions liked the copper much more than they liked mercury and the two metals readily changed places.

The sacrificial anode is naught but a designated decoy (like the apparently three-sheets-to-the-wind drunk leaving the bar, stumbling to his car, dropping his keys, slurring his speech, etc. Of *course* the cop is going to zero in on him). It just never occurred to me to think that such underground corrosion could act so quickly.

Now what's that metal/alloy whose oxide forms a barrier (mostly) impervious to further oxidation?

 

[BIGNASTY]

The things one learns here!

NO I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER and here I was just going to stick a couple of poles in the ground and form a pillar and fill with concrete! silly me. By the sounds of it this thing is like the tool box my dad got me as a kid. I started taking things apart and had no clue that you had to put them back together :-laf and the parts pile got bigger and bigger. I think that I better see if the county is going to need plans for a GATE? JURASIC PARK ALL OVER :-laf

 

[BIGNASTY]

Just thinking if I should get registered for the MT points of interest worlds biggest and most technologically advanced gate. I could charge for a visit and sell purple drink and popcorn. :-laf

 

[GHarman]

Neal, Aluminum forms Aluminum Oxide(source of grinding wheel material and melts at ~3700*F), Stainless Steel forms Chromium Oxide. While not 100& impervious, they readily shield the base metal from normal atmospheric oxidation. Yes, you are correct about the oxygen. I was not clear and was referring to atmospheric corrosion due to exposure. The electrical current developed by the potential actually carries the steel atoms away, atom by atom. I cant do the stoichiometry but I know it works. I've seen a 3V reading on a potentiometer from a coating holiday on an exposed pipeline to the ground. Some soils are acidic and some are alkaline. Both are BAD!



BIGNASTY,

just thinking if I should get registered for the MT points of interest worlds biggest and most technologically advanced gate. I could charge for a visit and sell purple drink and popcorn.

:-laf



GregH

 

[fest3er]

Just thinking if I should get registered for the MT points of interest worlds biggest and most technologically advanced gate. I could charge for a visit and sell purple drink and popcorn. :-laf

Just be sure to sell the purple koolaid only to li... oh, wait, wrong forum. Sorry.



Greg, I was thinking of those big tall lightpoles found in many highway interchanges that are covered with an ugly brown rust. I can't think of the element(s), nor can I come up with the right google incantation to find it. Oh, well, it was a digression from BN's thread anyway. 'Tain't important.



BN, if it's often breezy out your way, put up a windmill and feed adequate DC current through the gate and the ground. And then you'll be ready to turn it into a tourist trap: cover it with gaudy blinky lights. Build it right, and you can bill it as Montana's "Archway Gate to Freedom" (yours, that is; everyone else can pound sand).

 

[GHarman]

fest3er,

Greg, I was thinking of those big tall lightpoles found in many highway interchanges that are covered with an ugly brown rust. I can't think of the element(s), nor can I come up with the right google incantation to find it. Oh, well, it was a digression from BN's thread anyway. 'Tain't important.

You talkin about HSLA or "weathering steels" like COR-TEN? That's tough stuff and requires preheats, low-hydrogen welding rod and post heat treatments to weldments. If so, It is certainly another option for BIGNASTY. No paint, just let it weather. But with all the welds it will have a barber pole look cause the heat affected zones of the welds wont form oxides the same as the unaffected base metal, IMHO. GregH

 

[BIGNASTY]

Just be sure to sell the purple koolaid only to li... oh, wait, wrong forum. Sorry.



Greg, I was thinking of those big tall lightpoles found in many highway interchanges that are covered with an ugly brown rust. I can't think of the element(s), nor can I come up with the right google incantation to find it. Oh, well, it was a digression from BN's thread anyway. 'Tain't important.



BN, if it's often breezy out your way, put up a windmill and feed adequate DC current through the gate and the ground. And then you'll be ready to turn it into a tourist trap: cover it with gaudy blinky lights. Build it right, and you can bill it as Montana's "Archway Gate to Freedom" (yours, that is; everyone else can pound sand).

The lights and things sound like you went the the same houses of ill repute that I did when I was younger and NOT MARRIED and really didnt care about to much because I REALLY didnt expect to make it anyway People for the most part stay away now. We are the new crazy folks from Calif. AND HAVE ALOT OF GUNS Population is around 2K in this town they know the kind of undies boxers or brifes

 

[GHarman]

BIGNASTY, I think it was when ya got down on all 4's and swung yer head side to side and started huffing is what run 'em off:-laf GregH

 

[GHarman]

Been Thinking, Again

Hmmmmm Wonder why its so smokey in here:-laf Bignasty, I dont know what kind of heavy industry is up your way. If you could get the fabricator to roll you a 1/2 circle of the radius you desire and add the legs onsite. You would save yourself an awful lot of extra work.

Do you require a permit?

I doubt it would cost more than having a bunch of pieces cut at precise angles and prepped for welding. The only cost issue would be trucking it to your home unless you have a long flat bed trailer. You mentioned you had access to hoisting and rigging.

Lay it flat, but set up on jackstands/pipe stands, add your legs, I'd weld base plates on each leg, finish out your welds if you so desire, paint it. Have your holes drilled in the dirt, slip sono tubes over the legs(before you add the base plates), attach a couple of anodes to each base, on the bottom(Braze the wires onto the steel plate) and hoist it in place.

The layout is a great exercise, but this will get your entry gate in place, straight away! GregH

 

[fest3er]

Hmmmmm Wonder why its so smokey in here ...

Perhaps you need lubrication.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Hmmmmm Wonder why its so smokey in here:-laf Bignasty, I dont know what kind of heavy industry is up your way. If you could get the fabricator to roll you a 1/2 circle of the radius you desire and add the legs onsite. You would save yourself an awful lot of extra work.

Do you require a permit?

I doubt it would cost more than having a bunch of pieces cut at precise angles and prepped for welding. The only cost issue would be trucking it to your home unless you have a long flat bed trailer. You mentioned you had access to hoisting and rigging.

Lay it flat, but set up on jackstands/pipe stands, add your legs, I'd weld base plates on each leg, finish out your welds if you so desire, paint it. Have your holes drilled in the dirt, slip sono tubes over the legs(before you add the base plates), attach a couple of anodes to each base, on the bottom(Braze the wires onto the steel plate) and hoist it in place.

The layout is a great exercise, but this will get your entry gate in place, straight away! GregH

I was talking with the county inspector that comes to the house about weekly to inspect the house. He said that he would check on the permit issue. Didnt think I would as long as it was far enough off the main hwy. He's checking anyway. My FIL had the same thought about rolling it Missoula would be the closest. Ill have to look into that. As far as trucking it I JUST HAPPEN TO KNOW A OLD NASTY RETIRED FROM DRIVING TRUCK DRIVER THAT CAN DO THAT VERY THING.

 

[GHarman]

Perhaps you need lubrication.

Naw, Just need to dust off the brain before engaging. Kinda lites off the dust bunnies:-laf!



BIG, Sounds like a PLAN! GregH