Terrible crash at Reno Air Races

[AMink]

I've been to these races and there have been pilot deaths over the years, but this one involved a plane going into the crowd. A P-51 pulled up, rolled over, and augured into the ground in reserved seating. Thank God it was Friday, so attendance was lower, and it wasn't in the main stands. At this time it appears 3 plus the pilot were killed, with many others injured.

Update: Three confirmed dead in air races crash; blood donations sought | Reno Gazette-Journal | rgj.com

 

[AH64ID]

I saw that about an hour ago and have been trying to find more info.

 

[AMink]

I saw that about an hour ago and have been trying to find more info.

Home - My News 4 - KRNV, Reno, NV

 

[KLauber]

Horrible. Why is an 80 year old man piloting a P-51 at low level racing? Possibly had a medical emergency or something... ... Sad for everyone involved.

 

[AMink]

Horrible. Why is an 80 year old man piloting a P-51 at low level racing? Possibly had a medical emergency or something... ... Sad for everyone involved.

It is now reported he was, I believe, 74. Please hold off on the age thing until they determine if it had anything to do with the crash. There are several reports that there was a mayday call, though that is unsubstantiated at this time. Other eyewitness accounts indicate he did a very good job of keeping the plane out of the main part of the crowd. These guys are very, very good at what they do and the accidents in the past have been predominately equipment related.

 

[Stranger]

This photo was taken seconds before the crash. Clearly shows a broken/missing piece of the left elevator/trim tab. This MAY have caused or been a contributing factor in the crash. Thoughts and prayers for the pilot and victims.





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[Missouri Mule]

He was out of Ocala FL, owns flying ranch there and he created a housing development for airplane owners that has it own runway.

 

[mhsmith57]

My condolences to the pilot and his family and the victims on the ground. The pilot was 74 and had to have had an FAA physical to fly, regardless of what airplane he was flying. For the missing "elevator trim-tab" missing off the horizontal stabilizer, I don't think this was serious enough for a fatal crash. Something else caused this accident, my 2 cents worth. A&P licensed mechanic and many hours flying general aviation with my Dad.

Mark

 

[AH64ID]

My condolences to the pilot and his family and the victims on the ground. The pilot was 74 and had to have had an FAA physical to fly, regardless of what airplane he was flying. For the missing "elevator trim-tab" missing off the horizontal stabilizer, I don't think this was serious enough for a fatal crash. Something else caused this accident, my 2 cents worth. A&P licensed mechanic and many hours flying general aviation with my Dad.

Mark

At 450 knots and at low elevation it could easily have caused the crash. Watching a video of just prior to the crash I don't doubt that's what happened.



Had he been at a higher altitude or slower speed a missing elevator trim-tab can be controlled around.

 

[JKreiss]

Looking at it from a maintenance perspective i'm curious as to what else happened when the trim tab came off. Comparing my aircraft knowledge with that of the P-51 is absolutely apples to oranges but i'm just curious as to who knows about the hydraulics on these planes. Do they still fly by cable or have their flight controls been upgraded to Hydro? My point being if you restore a classic car, you usually upgrade the brakes, steering, engine etc. I would assume no different with an old plane. You'd want updated avionics, hydros, etc. If the stab had "come off" as evident in the picture, what was preventing the loss of other flight controls? If he's flying by cable, and part of the elevator comes off, did it take out anything else with it? If it was even hydro assist, did he deplete the hydro system and not have any pressure to correct? This guy wasn't just some student pilot. I saw him a few years back in Reno a long with a lot of older pilots, i'm not buying the age thing right away. The media was quick to jump on the age of the pilot and the aircraft. Obviously not understanding that most these aircraft are in near perfect condition and the pilots have thousands upon thousands of hours. Anybody else have any updates

 

[AH64ID]

These are racing aircraft so there were probably several improvements, but I highly doubt hydraulics was one of them. Nothing unsafe about cables.

With the trim tab on the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilator (think they are called that on an airplane), it wouldn't have done any physical damage to anything else. It simply would have made an abrupt change in the lifting forces and rapidly changed the trajectory of the aircraft. Especially considering that they were modified. This is an excerpt from one of the articles. 1/2 the aeirlon could certainly make recovering from an elevator trim tab loss much more difficult.

In a podcast uploaded to YouTube in June, Leeward said major changes were made to the plane before this year's race. He said his crew cut five feet off each wing and shortened the ailerons — the back edge of the main wings used to control balance — to 32 inches, down from about 60 inches.

The goal was to make the plane more aerodynamic so it would go faster without a bigger engine.

"I know the speed. I know it'll do the speed. The systems aren't proven yet. We think they're going to be OK," he said.

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[AMink]

These are racing aircraft so there were probably several improvements, but I highly doubt hydraulics was one of them. Nothing unsafe about cables.



With the trim tab on the trailing edge of the horizontal stabilator (think they are called that on an airplane), it wouldn't have done any physical damage to anything else. It simply would have made an abrupt change in the lifting forces and rapidly changed the trajectory of the aircraft. Especially considering that they were modified. This is an excerpt from one of the articles. 1/2 the aeirlon could certainly make recovering from an elevator trim tab loss much more difficult.









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Good photo. The planes come from the left (think NASCAR) and are supposed to be over the runway near the pylon that is identified. I heard on the national news this morning that even the Blue Angels can't perform that close to the crowd. BS! They all use the runway as the guide. At 500 mph it doesn't take too long to get from one place to another. Also, I didn't know that 500mph is "as fast as a speeding bullet". Maybe a very slow speeding bullet. Anything to make the report more dramatic.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Pitch control in a mustang can be affected by just leaning forward in the straps. Extreme wing loading re; clipped wings with accelerated roll rate via the out board ailerons and loss of horiz. trim control was a recipe for disaster.

Rest in peace brother. Fair winds... blue skies.

gregg

 

[AH64ID]

500 mph is 733 fps, so yeah a slow bullet for sure. Some 45 ACP's are as slow as 850 fps. But yes, mainly for dramatics. 3000 fps is a fast bullett, thats 2045 mph.

 

[AMink]

This is the best (worst?) video I've seen so far on this terrible event. The impact leaves nothing bigger than about a foot square left of the plane. It is very vivid, not for the squeamish. A friend who saw pictures that we will most likely never see said it looked like someone took a box of chicken breasts and just tossed them into the air. It took several days for them to make positive ID on several of the deceased. The count is now 11. And it could have been so much worse. Theory now is that the trim tab broke, the plane pitched up and over pulling 10+ G's, pilot lost consciousness and that's that. Even a younger fighter pilot wouldn't stand 10 G's without a suit.

Reno Air Crash Video: Dramatic New Footage Shows Plane At Moment Of Impact

 

[AH64ID]

I am glad they finally got everyone identified. As of 2 days ago they still had 2 unidentified bodies and no missing persons report to go with it.

 

[AMink]

I am glad they finally got everyone identified. As of 2 days ago they still had 2 unidentified bodies and no missing persons report to go with it.

I must have been very difficult to determine how many people were killed on site. Several died in the hospital, but the carnage on the field was something most of the emergency folks had never seen before.

 

[mhsmith57]

The missing trim tab didn't cause this accident. Sure it's missing but some planes don't even have trim tabs. The trim tab is used to "trim" the airplane's flight path; level, up, or down. When he's going 400 knots, and in a circuit, I doubt he's trimming the airplane's flight path. Something else was the cause of this horrific accident. Manure occurs and unfortunately, people are killed sometimes.

Let's just hope the Liberals/Socialists out there don't want to cancel air shows because of this accident. We have more accidents on our country roads then in the air.

Mark

-aviation Airframe & Powerplant mechanic/inspector/and numerous hours flying genaral aviation aircraft.

 

[mhsmith57]

You are wrong, sorry. The trim tab is a "finesse" flight control, and used to "trim" the flight path. The horizontal stabilizer is the main flight control for pitch. The trim tab sets the flight path of the airplane to eleviate forces on the control surface.

Mark

 

[AH64ID]

Sorry, but if you REMOVE it from one side and leave it on the other you WILL sustain a substantial loss of lift on the horizontal stabilizer. Loss of lift back there means a nose up condition, rapidly. A rapid nose up means a lot of G's, and thus the scenario faced.

An aircraft that doesn't have a trim tab still produces equal lift on both sides of the stabilizer and the comparison between aircraft with and aircraft losing is mute, nothing to compare. It's like saying if a dually gets a flat on the rear you can drive, so why does a SRW have issues with a flat on the rear?

They do finesse the flight path, thru small movements. A lack of one where they should be is well beyond the realm of finesse.