2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Wobble wobble shake shake

[TPringle]

I have recently aquired a 2000 Dodge 2500 4x4 quad cab. I have experianced

"Death Wobble" 2 times, in about 20 miles. huh...



I had my wife turn the steering wheel (with that lousy walmart cover on it) while I observed the steering components. Yep, the whole front end moves back and forth! Track bar loose, tie rod ends also bouncing up and down. I have been reading all the articles & posts I can find. I am open to "been there - done that " suggestions.



Ball joints have been replaced, tie rods looked original, track bar replaced at some point. How can I tell if the track bar is OEM, or a MOOG? How do Lukes links work on the tie rods & track bar? I have also read posts about using 3rd gen track bars on the 2nd gen - is this the one offered in Genos? Is there any other (less expensive) options? I have read a post where someone had a steel bushing made for the bolted end. I had thought of this also. It had the steering box support bracket installed.



Is the Mopar steering stabilizer the best one for this truck? How can I check this? Remove one end & shove to see if it is weak? How about shocks? I read (and saw) the Rancho shocks didnt hold up very well. How about Monroe shocks from Napa? This is what I always used on the 92.



It has well worn BFG tires on 2005 17" wheels. I usually use tires until they get lumpy or blow out (outch!). I have a new set of 16" Uniroyal Liberators on aftermarket rims I may put on. I dont "off road" this truck in the sense of 'mudding' or anything brutal, unless you consider going into Mexico brutal! Mostly I pull trailers (I am a car guy) and need the 4X4 when I get stuck dragging a car out of someones yard, or have to hog mud and water on our modern gravel road!



I want to invest my time & money wisely in this front end and hopefully I wont have to mess with it again for another 100k miles! I am not afraid to get under there every 2000-3000 miles with a grease gun to keep things lubed! Thats how I kept the 92 running for over 350k miles and still have all the original parts on the front end!



Any experiance and thoughts would be apreciated!

 

[Missouri Mule]

Genos is good place to look. Look at Thuren's stuff. He uses a stainless steel set up on the 2nd gen track bar ( I have one on my truck, but it seems to me on 24 engines on one of the years you have to measure the diff cover to make sure the track bar clears it. But he also make 3rd gen track bar ).



. : THUREN FABRICATION :.

 

[JMcCoy]

I used to have Luke's Links on all five joints. They worked well on everything. The one on the track bar got so bad that the Lukes link no longer worked. I went with the 3rd gen track bar and couldn't be happier. It is way stronger. I had to remove the Luke's Links on my tie rods because I installed Ford knuckles and hubs. I had to remove the Lukes link on my gear box end of the drag link because it wouldn't clear the BD 3rd gen track bar bracket. If I had a drop pitman arm (like I should), it would clear with no problem. I still have the Luke's Link on my drag link where in attaches to the tie rod. Prior to my relatively unique issues, the Luke's Links worked very well. I would recommend them for everything, but the track bar. If you have Moog joints, they are probably still good. They are larger and "usually" last a long time. That's why Luke's Links will not work with them.



As for shocks, stay away from Monroe, Napa, and Rancho. They are all twin tube shocks like the oem. They are poor quality, ride poorly, and don't last long. Get a quality mono tube shock like Bilstein or Edlebrock. I have over 100,000 on mine and they ride as good as new. A mono tube shock will cost at least $80 each. Save your money elsewhere. My steering stabilizer was still good when I changed it at 175,000 miles. If I didn't already purchase a new Pro Comp steering stabilizer, I would have put the old one back in. Chances are, yours is still good. I hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I have had Rancho 5000(?) on the front and Rancho 9000 on the back since 2001 (aprox 130,000 miles on them). There still holding up. Mechanic did say bushings are wore out on them.

 

[TPringle]

Do you know how to identify a Moog track bar v. s. a stock bar? I think this is stock, or maybe an parts store replacement. If I go 3rd gen on the bar, will a factory or parts store replacement work, or does it have to be a special track bar (like Genos sells)? I heard mention of a bracket. Do you check the steering stabilizer like a shock? Still fishin' for knowledge...

 

[JMcCoy]

The people at Luke's links are very helpfull. If you call them up they can give you all the dementions. Once you install the adapter bracket, the stock 3rd gen track bar should work. The only problem I have with a stock trace bar is that it is not adjustable. Depending on your front end hight, your axle may be offset to the left or right. With the adjustable track bar, you can center the axle regardless of your front end hight. Things that can effect your front hight could be bumpers, winches, aftermarket lifted springs or spacers, or just sagging springs.



Yes you can just check the steering stabilizer like a shock. It should have good resistance on both compression and rebound. If you can push it in with ease, you need a new one. You will know when you do it.



Good luck.

 

[SnoKing]

Here is a link to Solid Steel



I have had their steering box brace and 3rd gen track bar mount for many years. Got my track bar from Dodge. I also cranked in additional caster.



SNOKING

 

[DSpringstead]

I have a BD 3rd gen track bar on my '97. SO much better than stock. Also have a DSS steering box stabilizer. I swapped out my stock shocks for a new set of Bilstein's. They're everything everyone says they are. Also don't forget the front swaybar bushings & endlinks. Some people might tell you that you don't need them, but replacing them won't make it any worse.

 

[Clinton]

I've put some money into my front end including a DT Profab adjustable track bar, DSS, 'improved' ball joints from Quad 4x4, and Bilstein shocks. All that helped it drive better, but it will still death wobble if I let the front tires go too long. In my opinion, there is something about the damping ability of good tire tread that prevents the wobble. I can neither qualify or quantify that statement, but my experience in 12 years of ownership leads me to keep decent tires on the vehicle.

 

[dresslered]

Do you know how to identify a Moog track bar v. s. a stock bar?

The Moog track bar is 2-1/8" diameter while the others are 1-5/8". Don't overlook the ball joints either.

 

[DSpringstead]

Clinton I would have to agree with you on that. I'm running a set of 265's & the tread is down to less that a quarter inch. And I have noticed more shake the thinner they get. When I swap over to my winter treads I'll have the alignment checked. I read in the FAQ's that the alignment can be a fickle thing.

 

[JMcCoy]

I've put some money into my front end including a DT Profab adjustable track bar, DSS, 'improved' ball joints from Quad 4x4, and Bilstein shocks. All that helped it drive better, but it will still death wobble if I let the front tires go too long. In my opinion, there is something about the damping ability of good tire tread that prevents the wobble. I can neither qualify or quantify that statement, but my experience in 12 years of ownership leads me to keep decent tires on the vehicle.

If you are still getting the death wobble, there is something still wrong with your vehicle. Check and re-check everything including unit bearings. One of your new parts may be bad as well. Since I updated everything, my front end is flawless. Whether i'm towing a trailer or just doing 90 mph on a deserted highway, both bumpy and smooth roads; just flawless.

 

[ewcmr2]

Time for an experiment.
Someone currently experiencing castor shimmy (death wobble) set your trucks caster to 3. 5* and install a set of Bilsteins.

Don't worry about all the rest of the front end, just a couple hundred $ on shocks and alignment and see what happens.

My old '96 2500 4x4 never had a problem over 100,000 miles on all kinds of roads/loads. Of course I put good shocks on it within days of buying it and had it aligned the first time it needed tires.

Most you tube videos show axles wildly bouncing up & down. Clearly the shocks are not damping the oscillation of the springs. I wonder if people are buying 1/2 ton shocks for their 3/4 or 1 ton trucks hoping for a better ride, not realizing a shock needs to be valvesd to match the spring it is going to be used with?

 

[Joe Mc]

My front end "re-manufacturing" went as follows:

Got rid of the Monroe's that were on when I got it, replaced with Bilstien's yellow/blue.

Front Leveling Kit -Top Gun Customz

Moog track bars X 3 (thank god the part was lifetime) after I tired of changing the track bar every year or so, I "finally" switched over to 3rd Gen adjustable -Solid Steel Biz. Should have followed the old adage of "Do it right once", the ball joint is the weak link especially if you're running bigger than stock tires and leveled the front end. Couldn't be happier.

DSS Steering Stabilizer -Solid Steel Biz.

Upper and Lower tubular control arms -Top Gun Customz - bushings in the stock stamped steel went bad.

Maxx Links swaybar links for leveled trucks (front and back) -Geno's

Sway bar bushings (front and back) local speed shop -forget what brand, big name - I think the front was 32 MM and rear was 28 MM ? ? ?

New Front Bearing assy both sides -forget brand got @ NAPA.

And, the usual suspects rod ends, drag link, couplers. I think I even replaced the axle u-joints and at least one side upper and lower ball joints.



Almost makes me sick thinking about this. All the money and time I spent, if only they (Ma MoPar) would have gotten it correct fromt the giddy up#@$%!



One word on the Top Gun Customz control arms, the paint sucks and doesn't last at all. Do your self a favor if you choose TGC get them powder coated first or put some really durable paint on them.



Hope this helps.

 

[TPringle]

Thank you for your input. From what I have read and observed, this can be an expensive repair, esp if not done right, iand you have to backtrack and re-redo things. This is what I want to avoid. I'll likely use Lukes Links on the tie rod ends, and am investigating the trackbar further. It is an expensive piece, and I only want to have to buy it once. Is a stock 3rd gen trackbar worth the money or is it better spent on an aftermarket part?



I was surprised to hear about the Monroe shocks being bad, but again, this is why I wrote in. I do have a bent-damaged sway bar link also. I asume you can check the front hub bearings by listening to them and shaking around? I also read of adding some caster, does this affect tire wear and fuel mileage?



I am also surprised that tires with worn tread will affect this in a bad way, I had always thought the opposite, so long as they werent cut, cupped or lumpy.



Another thought - I can see the need for an adjustable track bar for lifted trucks, or lowered, would I be correct in thinking that when our trucks go over a dip or bump that the front end jumps back and forth as the truck bounces up and down, thus the start of the 'wobble?

 

[JKosten]

After reading your original post I have a few well researched thoughts for you:



First: Get rid of the BFG's. They are known for DW on Dodges. They are great for 3500# Toyota's and Jeep's, but not a 7200# full size.



Second: Ditch the factory style track bar. Get a 3rd gen bracket kit and track bar. I went with Solid Steel and OEM track bar with Geno's poly bushings. No problems and solid axle locating.



Third: I am surprised this has not yet been mentioned but get a steering brace. It will prevent excessive play in the sector shaft which can effect DW. Solid Steel also makes the kit.



Fourth: Examine your steering components and Ball joints. The factory steering linkage is undersized for the application. Either go full aftermarket with Heims or switch to the 98-99HD setup with any local parts store will carry. See below link. As for ball joints there are a lot of options depending on pocket book. I used an OEM equivalent since my original's went 220k.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...ions/197276-steering-inverted-y-change-t.html



Fifth: As for shocks, coils and arms they can effect DW but not as much as the first 4 things, but you do have to look at the whole front end as a whole. If you have great steering but some Rancho 5000's the axle will bounce all over the road because the shock is too small for the application. Also if the arms have worn out bushings the axle will move interdependently of the truck and change the steering. As for coils, the factory spring rate is stiff and will also create a ride quality issue. A "leveling" kit will only space the springs down not add to ride comfort/quality.



These are just a few things to consider and do some searching around the forum as this is not a new issue for these trucks.



Good Luck!

 

[JKosten]

oh and a stock track bar can be found for free most of the time at shops that install adjustable ones... AKA Thuren or Carli.

 

[TPringle]

Thank you Mr Kosten for sending me to the "Y to T " steering upgrade. This is one of the reasons I wrote in! I am amazed at the wealth of information in these pages, and the TDR mag! After reading those posts, I had a chance to look at a 99 3500 on a car lot (I was buying my topper off this truck), and I liked what a saw a lot better than that goofy stock Y steering setup. The 99 looked a lot more like what I was used to seeing under a truck like this, similar to my '92. Rockauto.com has those parts WAY cheaper than O'reilley



I found my trackbar was a Moog - so I am trying to find a way to get it replaced under the lifetime warranty until I can cough up the $500 to upgrade to a 3rd gen trackbar setup. Even just the bracket costs around $180, then I still got to get the bar... I feel I should upgrade the lift pump 1st to the FASS, so I dont take a chance on wrecking that precious injection pump!



I also found the engine balancer wobbling, thanks to the TDR article in issue 73, thank you Mr. Magnoli! While the expensive Fluidamper may be out of my budget, the $110 Dorman should be a lot better than the nothing I currently have hooked to the end of that crank! May help my waivering engine idle-down too, but maybe that is a normal sound of this 'new-to-me' ride.



I should be able to get the parts ordered and installed in a couple of weeks. I will post "my" results once I get things together.

 

[JKosten]

One thing I forgot to mention is you will need a clamp to mount the stabilizer to the steering.