-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
Need 14 cm2 turbo........
- Thread starter BillyKidd
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
- Status
Actually, aren't you looking for this? 14cm2 Wastegated Turbine Housing (Long Outlet), TH-08
And if you want non-wastegated, this might work better... 14cm2 Non-Wastegated Turbine Housing (Short Outlet) Short output, so you don't have to modify your exhaust.
And if you want non-wastegated, this might work better... 14cm2 Non-Wastegated Turbine Housing (Short Outlet) Short output, so you don't have to modify your exhaust.
Last edited by a moderator:
Turbo's
ZedMikey:
I had "wastegated" turbo in my old "Sig" but I don't remember having a waste gate on the turbo I put in. I tried looking at old pics but can't see the turbo well enough to tell. I had a Banks exhaust kit on it(turbo back) so I can't remember if i had to move the downpipe back or not.
I HATE getting Old. CRS is getting bad.
I'm thinking a non-wastegated one would work O. K. and probably better when I add the 4" exhaust... ..... If I remember correctly the turbo end of the "new 4" downpipe" is actually the same size as the stock pipe (necked down). I'll check into that before I make the purchases.
Thanks, For the Info... ... ... ...
Billy
ZedMikey:
I had "wastegated" turbo in my old "Sig" but I don't remember having a waste gate on the turbo I put in. I tried looking at old pics but can't see the turbo well enough to tell. I had a Banks exhaust kit on it(turbo back) so I can't remember if i had to move the downpipe back or not.
I HATE getting Old. CRS is getting bad.
I'm thinking a non-wastegated one would work O. K. and probably better when I add the 4" exhaust... ..... If I remember correctly the turbo end of the "new 4" downpipe" is actually the same size as the stock pipe (necked down). I'll check into that before I make the purchases.
Thanks, For the Info... ... ... ...
Billy
If you look at my sig you will see that I am also running a 14 hot side. This hot side is the only thing left from the banks kit - which I installed back in '94. It has survived because I like the preformance it provides. I have changed or modified every part on the intake and exhaust side of my '93. The PDR HX35 works well and the wg is adjustable - at least on the Banks unit - and I have installed a boost fooler to control turbo surge when towing up hill.
Rip "Source Automitive" installed my 4" exhaust using a 2nd gen down pipe. I wanted that pipe because it elimated the 2 90 degree bends and replaced them with 2 45 degree bends for better exhaust flow.
Bob
Rip "Source Automitive" installed my 4" exhaust using a 2nd gen down pipe. I wanted that pipe because it elimated the 2 90 degree bends and replaced them with 2 45 degree bends for better exhaust flow.
Bob
question...
O. K. I'll ask... ... ... .
Isn't a wastegate only necessary for "dumping" excessive boost. I think a 14cm will not produce enough pressure/boost with the light mods I plan to make (turn up pump, 4" exhaust, with K&N intake) a wastegate necessary.
Please correct me if I'm missing something here.
I'm currently planning on a simple 14cm replacement (non-wastegated) turbo housing. Should bolt in and bolt up to a DE 4" exhaust.
Let me know if anyone has a different opinion.
Thanks, Billy
O. K. I'll ask... ... ... .
Isn't a wastegate only necessary for "dumping" excessive boost. I think a 14cm will not produce enough pressure/boost with the light mods I plan to make (turn up pump, 4" exhaust, with K&N intake) a wastegate necessary.
Please correct me if I'm missing something here.
I'm currently planning on a simple 14cm replacement (non-wastegated) turbo housing. Should bolt in and bolt up to a DE 4" exhaust.
Let me know if anyone has a different opinion.
Thanks, Billy
A non-WG turbo is easier to deal with but you leave spool and bottom end grunt on the table. Fueled hard down low that translates to smoke.
Its actually quite noticeable when you try it both ways.
Yes, the WG is for dumping excess boost but you have to have the exhaust flow to get there first. In all but the most extreme driving the WG never activates on those type of turbo's, its a safety meausre.
We run our fist gens to 35-40 almosr daily with no issues so far. As long as your timing is not massively advanced and EGT's in check 40-42 psi is doable on a stock HG.
A good 12 cm housing with a WG and a 58-60 mm compressor wheel makes a good addition. Quick spool and decent top end for lightly modded trucks. An HE351 off a 3rd gen makes a good upgrade if you cna find one reasonable. An S300 series turbo is alos pretty good. Depends on what oyu want to spend for the power to bemade.
Its actually quite noticeable when you try it both ways.
Yes, the WG is for dumping excess boost but you have to have the exhaust flow to get there first. In all but the most extreme driving the WG never activates on those type of turbo's, its a safety meausre.
We run our fist gens to 35-40 almosr daily with no issues so far. As long as your timing is not massively advanced and EGT's in check 40-42 psi is doable on a stock HG.
A good 12 cm housing with a WG and a 58-60 mm compressor wheel makes a good addition. Quick spool and decent top end for lightly modded trucks. An HE351 off a 3rd gen makes a good upgrade if you cna find one reasonable. An S300 series turbo is alos pretty good. Depends on what oyu want to spend for the power to bemade.
confused.......
cerberusiam:
I'm confused by some of your info.
I believe I should get faster spool up and thus more air/fuel aka power even at the low end, wastegated or not, by going from my stock 21cm to a 14cm. I'm just concerned with over boost (more than 30 lbs) and I don't think I'll get there with the 14cm turbo and modest mods.
I do think I'll increase my bottom end, both in spool up (acceleration) and grunt (power). I'm I missing something?
Also I'm seeing turbo on ebay for a little under $300. and they are all HX35 or HX 40 with t-4 mount... ... ..... I have no clue what these are. Can someone point me to where I can learn about the newer turbos and their designations/part numbers.
I'd like a 14 cm or maybe even a 12 if it was wastegated but I don't know what the newer names mean... HELP !!
Billy
cerberusiam:
I'm confused by some of your info.
I believe I should get faster spool up and thus more air/fuel aka power even at the low end, wastegated or not, by going from my stock 21cm to a 14cm. I'm just concerned with over boost (more than 30 lbs) and I don't think I'll get there with the 14cm turbo and modest mods.
I do think I'll increase my bottom end, both in spool up (acceleration) and grunt (power). I'm I missing something?
Also I'm seeing turbo on ebay for a little under $300. and they are all HX35 or HX 40 with t-4 mount... ... ..... I have no clue what these are. Can someone point me to where I can learn about the newer turbos and their designations/part numbers.
I'd like a 14 cm or maybe even a 12 if it was wastegated but I don't know what the newer names mean... HELP !!
Billy
Last edited:
First off, 30 psi or even 35 psi with a turbo that is capable of it is not a problem on our engines. 40 psi is really the limit you want to go with a stock head gasket.
Yes a smaller housing will give you better spool, to a point. The 14 cm housing is not a bad choice with the stock 52 mm wheel. The reason you really don't need a WG is the design of the compressor and turbine will help to limit the max psi.
Even with minimal upgrades the non-WG housings and the small compressor wheels loose their ability to stay in front of EGT's. You won't see this in a DD but drop a load on and it becomes apparent.
If you want a turbo that is capable of flowing more air and by default building more boost then you have to address the compressor wheel size. A 58 mm compressor with a good turbine is good for about 35 psi and makes pretty good air from 15 psi up to 30 psi. A 60 mm compressor in a correctly sized housing will make 38-40 psi of good air and flow more in the 18-30 range than a smaller compressor. The spool on these turbos is going to be very comparable.
What we need, have always needed, is BETTER air at lower boost numbers. You get that with a turbo that is capable of making more boost and flowing more air on the top end, or going to twins. Some times you need to upsize to to get what you want in the lower ranges.
An HE351 is 60\65\9 Holeset turbo off the 04. 5+ CR. Good upgrade
An HE341 is a 56\65\9 Holeset turbo off an 03-04 CR. Good upgrade.
An HX35 could be a 52-54\58-60\12 off of a range of trucks thru 2001. You need to check and see what the compressor and turbine size is. The early HX35 was not much of an upgrade over the H1C.
An HX40 is the turbo off of the older C series cummins. They were not a high speed quick spool turbo and are really old technology. You can do better shopping around.
An S300 is a Schweitzer turbo off of a different application.
Post up the links on Ebay and someone will take a look and offer an opinion.
FYI, my son and I have an HE351VE on 2 of our trucks. They are work to adapt but are great. The other one has a 56\60\16 non-WG turbo that works well but suffers when you load it down. We run these trucks to 35 psi on a daily basis so don't sweat boost under 40.
Yes a smaller housing will give you better spool, to a point. The 14 cm housing is not a bad choice with the stock 52 mm wheel. The reason you really don't need a WG is the design of the compressor and turbine will help to limit the max psi.
Even with minimal upgrades the non-WG housings and the small compressor wheels loose their ability to stay in front of EGT's. You won't see this in a DD but drop a load on and it becomes apparent.
If you want a turbo that is capable of flowing more air and by default building more boost then you have to address the compressor wheel size. A 58 mm compressor with a good turbine is good for about 35 psi and makes pretty good air from 15 psi up to 30 psi. A 60 mm compressor in a correctly sized housing will make 38-40 psi of good air and flow more in the 18-30 range than a smaller compressor. The spool on these turbos is going to be very comparable.
What we need, have always needed, is BETTER air at lower boost numbers. You get that with a turbo that is capable of making more boost and flowing more air on the top end, or going to twins. Some times you need to upsize to to get what you want in the lower ranges.
An HE351 is 60\65\9 Holeset turbo off the 04. 5+ CR. Good upgrade
An HE341 is a 56\65\9 Holeset turbo off an 03-04 CR. Good upgrade.
An HX35 could be a 52-54\58-60\12 off of a range of trucks thru 2001. You need to check and see what the compressor and turbine size is. The early HX35 was not much of an upgrade over the H1C.
An HX40 is the turbo off of the older C series cummins. They were not a high speed quick spool turbo and are really old technology. You can do better shopping around.
An S300 is a Schweitzer turbo off of a different application.
Post up the links on Ebay and someone will take a look and offer an opinion.
FYI, my son and I have an HE351VE on 2 of our trucks. They are work to adapt but are great. The other one has a 56\60\16 non-WG turbo that works well but suffers when you load it down. We run these trucks to 35 psi on a daily basis so don't sweat boost under 40.
Cool.....
cerberusiam
Well I asked and you said... ... ... ... Couple of more questions though.
"You won't see this in a DD but drop a load on and it becomes apparent. "
What's DD ?
"HE351 is 60\65\9"
What do these numbers represent? I'm guessing they are compressor wheel size and turbo cm sizes. If that is correct is the above turbo "9"cm" as in the one I'm talking about being a 14cm? Again if that is correct wouldn't the 9cm be restrictive on the top or with a load?
Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to learn/understand. Things have changed in the 1st gen world since last I was here... ...
I do appreciate all the input.
Billy
cerberusiam
Well I asked and you said... ... ... ... Couple of more questions though.
"You won't see this in a DD but drop a load on and it becomes apparent. "
What's DD ?
"HE351 is 60\65\9"
What do these numbers represent? I'm guessing they are compressor wheel size and turbo cm sizes. If that is correct is the above turbo "9"cm" as in the one I'm talking about being a 14cm? Again if that is correct wouldn't the 9cm be restrictive on the top or with a load?
Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to learn/understand. Things have changed in the 1st gen world since last I was here... ...
I do appreciate all the input.
Billy
DD is daily driver. A lot of things that will work well and look good as a DD tend not to be so good when you drop a load on it.
EGT's are the big one. Under normal driving I can hit about 35 psi with less than 1200 degrres on the pyro and never worry. With 10k behind it I have to be careful in OD becuase it will gover 1500 even at 25-30 psi of boost if I try to hold speed on grades.
In comparison my 05 with an HE351 will easily do that and not break 1200 degrees even with more weight at about the same boost levels.
Both trucks dyno at 350-400 HP in tow configuration, the difference being the HE351 makes btter air at 25 psi than the modified HX35.
In the designation 60\65\9 the first number is compressor wheel exducer size in millimeters, the second number is turbine wheel exducer in millimeters, the third number is exhaust housing size in cm^3.
Note the 9 may seem small in comparison but exhaust housing design has something to do with the actual flow. The HE351 is an open volute design with no divider where the HX35 is divided. The 9 cm^3 in the is very close to flow capability of the older 12 cm^3, up to a point.
There is a point at which the design of the HE351 starts getting in the way of performance due to excessive drive pressures and the inability to handle massive flows of exhaust generated by large injectors. Generally speaking about 450-500 HP is its usable limit without mods.
The standard modified HX35 starts running out of headroom about 100 HP less, or more depending on the design. It always ends up being a tradeoff with a single to get them to spool fast enough to not smoke badly, not surge in typical lower boost areas, and keep drive pressures at least reasonable so EGT's stay down.
For the cost of around $300 if you can find them the HE351 performs as well as a custom built turbo that will cost $1500-2000. Same can be said for an H1C or HX35 given your power levels are not too demanding.
In the end its always about how fast you wanna go.
EGT's are the big one. Under normal driving I can hit about 35 psi with less than 1200 degrres on the pyro and never worry. With 10k behind it I have to be careful in OD becuase it will gover 1500 even at 25-30 psi of boost if I try to hold speed on grades.
In comparison my 05 with an HE351 will easily do that and not break 1200 degrees even with more weight at about the same boost levels.
Both trucks dyno at 350-400 HP in tow configuration, the difference being the HE351 makes btter air at 25 psi than the modified HX35.
In the designation 60\65\9 the first number is compressor wheel exducer size in millimeters, the second number is turbine wheel exducer in millimeters, the third number is exhaust housing size in cm^3.
Note the 9 may seem small in comparison but exhaust housing design has something to do with the actual flow. The HE351 is an open volute design with no divider where the HX35 is divided. The 9 cm^3 in the is very close to flow capability of the older 12 cm^3, up to a point.
There is a point at which the design of the HE351 starts getting in the way of performance due to excessive drive pressures and the inability to handle massive flows of exhaust generated by large injectors. Generally speaking about 450-500 HP is its usable limit without mods.
The standard modified HX35 starts running out of headroom about 100 HP less, or more depending on the design. It always ends up being a tradeoff with a single to get them to spool fast enough to not smoke badly, not surge in typical lower boost areas, and keep drive pressures at least reasonable so EGT's stay down.
For the cost of around $300 if you can find them the HE351 performs as well as a custom built turbo that will cost $1500-2000. Same can be said for an H1C or HX35 given your power levels are not too demanding.
In the end its always about how fast you wanna go.
And how much you're willing to spend to get there.In the end its always about how fast you wanna go.
How about this.......
What do you guys think of this one?
DODGE RAM OE REPLACEMENT HX35 TURBOCHARGER TURBO DIESEL | eBay
Billy
What do you guys think of this one?
DODGE RAM OE REPLACEMENT HX35 TURBOCHARGER TURBO DIESEL | eBay
Billy
And how much you're willing to spend to get there.
The very definition of a slippery slope. :-laf:-laf
Same compressor wheel as your stocker with a better AR. It will spool quite well and flow pretty well to around 30 psi. Not to bad a price for a decent upgrade.
Really confused now..........
WOW. .
Way too much "stuff" out there that can/could be used on the 1st gen trucks/motors. What I'm looking for is a quick spool up so I don't lag off the line (not racing just DD) BUT, I'll need to be able tow a pretty big horse trailer on occasion. Probably not far but it could happen. Most towing gets done w/ the 06 Dually my wife drives. This is a project/Ranch Truck for the most part and won't "have" to be my DD but I'd like it to be able to be.
My '93 had the 14cm and it spooled up pretty quick but I'd like a little quicker if possible. I know some of this sounds contradictory but, I'm now leaning towards the 12cm ... The "9" seems too small for the towing.
Maybe this:12cm2 Non-Wastegated Turbine Housing (Short Outlet)
Or this:12cm2 Wastegated Turbine Housing (Long Outlet), TH-07
Thanks for all the info. Now I'll try to decide which one to get, and I'm just up to the turbo. But, Hey, I'm retired and like to play with trucks...
Billy:-laf
WOW. .
Way too much "stuff" out there that can/could be used on the 1st gen trucks/motors. What I'm looking for is a quick spool up so I don't lag off the line (not racing just DD) BUT, I'll need to be able tow a pretty big horse trailer on occasion. Probably not far but it could happen. Most towing gets done w/ the 06 Dually my wife drives. This is a project/Ranch Truck for the most part and won't "have" to be my DD but I'd like it to be able to be.
My '93 had the 14cm and it spooled up pretty quick but I'd like a little quicker if possible. I know some of this sounds contradictory but, I'm now leaning towards the 12cm ... The "9" seems too small for the towing.
Maybe this:12cm2 Non-Wastegated Turbine Housing (Short Outlet)
Or this:12cm2 Wastegated Turbine Housing (Long Outlet), TH-07
Thanks for all the info. Now I'll try to decide which one to get, and I'm just up to the turbo. But, Hey, I'm retired and like to play with trucks...
Billy:-laf
Last edited by a moderator:
The Pure Diesel Power NON-wastegated 14cm housing ad explains that the exhaust on a first gen needs moved rearward an inch. It was always my understanding that a non-wastegate housing switch DIDN'T require an exhause move. Only if you added a wastegate housing. Am I correct?
I was getting ready to lose my 21 housing and go to a 14 but didn't wanna mess with the exhaust if possible.
I was getting ready to lose my 21 housing and go to a 14 but didn't wanna mess with the exhaust if possible.
- Status
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
