do you believe consumer reports???

[HBarlow]

Checked out that quote on TDR's home page, "new Ram's warranty claims are now better than last year of the 5. 9s. " Wonder how they spun that?
The last MODEL year for the 5. 9, would that be 1/2 a year's sales or a whole year's sales? Were there more 5. 9's sold vs 6. 7's? Hopefully it was figured as X number of claims per 100 trucks sold.

Why would anyone need to spin anything? It would make no difference how many months the trucks were sold. I think the analysis would normally be calculated based on reported warranty defects per 1000 or per 100 trucks sold.

It was TDR editor Robert Patton who reported that statistic. Do you think he was lying?

 

[EGroeneveld]

To answer the question, Yes! on most things besides trucks and trucklike (real) SUV's.



But it's cause they use bad data. Would you ask PETA member's about which shotgun worked best for Duck Hunting? Would you ask your hunting buddies what the best sewing machine for dresses is?



Ha Ha

 

[bheiting]

Checked out that quote on TDR's home page, "new Ram's warranty claims are now better than last year of the 5. 9s. " Wonder how they spun that?

The last MODEL year for the 5. 9, would that be 1/2 a year's sales or a whole year's sales? Were there more 5. 9's sold vs 6. 7's? Hopefully it was figured as X number of claims per 100 trucks sold.

Yep, who know? By '07 Chrysler was back in serious financial trouble. My '07 had the leaking CP3 and leaking trans return line problems that were around for a few years at least. My first problem on day 1 was a broken radiator hose clamp that someone just didn't care enough to replace. By the time my truck was built most of the quality assurance personnel were probably laid off. Ya sure hope they're better now! I can't say I'm impressed with the "fix" for the death wobble problem - reducing tow in angle. The truck tends to wonder now, so you can't take your eyes off the road for a second. If they're messing with toe in, they know exactly what the problem is, but just won't spend the cash to fix it.

 

[Grizzly]

Do I believe in Consumer Reports, Yes. I also believe in RV Consumer Group. No relation between the two.

 

[Bater]

A few years back I spent a morning with some of the technical folks at Consumer Reports (Consumers Union). Their facilities and laboratories are quite impressive, and I came away with the perception that they really do try to be as objective as possible.



I use CR myself when evaluating things like appliances, although in conjunction with comments and reviews found elsewhere. I even bought my truck using the CR pricing service; it seemed to work just fine.



However, all of the above said, I do tend to agree with some of the remarks in this thread. For example, I have started on the Consumer Reports auto survey a few times, but ended up dumping out. It just seems to go on and on. So perhaps responses only come from those with an ax to grind who take the time.



Consumers Union isn't really located in prime "truck country" either, so it could be that they aren't quite as knowledgeable on trucks as some. Case in point, you can't even legally drive a heavy duty pickup on the parkway that leads to their NY headquarters! (Their test track is actually in CT. )



Andy

 

[rscurtis]

I'm a long-time subscriber, and no Harvey, I'm not a Prius-driving leftie. Keep in mind that their comparisons are based on present day vehicles, they're not comparing a 2011 vehicle to a 2001, let's say, they're comparing them to other vehicles in the same class. All the classes are better than they used to be, but the newest fleet of HD pickups with diesel engines have been somewhat troublesome, I don't think anyone will argue with that.



As far as their testing of OPE, I don't place a lot of faith in their results because they don't take life cycle cost into consideration like they do with vehicles. Many of the mowers, tractors and snowblowers that get high ratings today will be on their way to China as scrap in five years. They also don't differentiate between engine problems and mower problems when ranking manufacturers. Snappper typically does poorly on their reliability rating, but their walk mowers can last 20-30 years and parts and service are still available for old units. Let's see you get parts for your 20 year old highly rated Honda- it's not going to happen. That is not accounted for in their testing. They also don't test higher-end units, but limit their selection to big box brands. Some of the OPE that I have is 45 years old and still working fine. Think of all the $ I saved by not having to constantly buy new. They don't take that into consideration in their ratings, nor do they consider after-sale service.

 

[DBithell]

Yep, who know? By '07 Chrysler was back in serious financial trouble. My '07 had the leaking CP3 and leaking trans return line problems that were around for a few years at least. My first problem on day 1 was a broken radiator hose clamp that someone just didn't care enough to replace. By the time my truck was built most of the quality assurance personnel were probably laid off. Ya sure hope they're better now! I can't say I'm impressed with the "fix" for the death wobble problem - reducing tow in angle. The truck tends to wonder now, so you can't take your eyes off the road for a second. If they're messing with toe in, they know exactly what the problem is, but just won't spend the cash to fix it.

Had the leaking CP3 too. Your '07 comments reminded me of going into the dealership to get a fuel filter (now only buy from genos). They had a NEW Jeep CJ?CK on the showroom floor, noticed it was missing a lug nut, took a closer look and it wasn't just the nut but the LUG STUD was missing. Asked the guy if it was a new vehicle - he said yah why? ... oh we'll have to fix that.

 

[Cosmo]

Let's see you get parts for your 20 year old highly rated Honda- it's not going to happen. That is not accounted for in their testing.

While I generally feel Harvey is full of ***** most of the time, Honda makes a great product. Walk-behind mowers are basically an engine sitting on a deck with a blade attached underneath. Pretty hard to screw up. Honda makes incredible small motors. My folks bought an HR195 back in about 1989 and it's still going strong today. The oil has been changed perhaps 5 times, the blade two or three, and the spark plug once.



If I needed to get parts for it, they're still available. Perhaps a better sign of a quality piece is the fact that you don't need to replace parts after 20 years of use, rather than making sure there is a good supply of them?













Is the Titan a better truck than the Ram?



Yeah.



Is it anywhere near as capable?



Nope.





I work for a dealership, and lately we've been seeing brand new Rams fail to start, requiring PCM replacement. That's outstanding for a vehicle with less than 10 miles on the clock. So a customer buys a truck and we can't get it to start in order to drive it over to detail to get it cleaned? Nice.



It's not a fluke if it happens several times.

 

[AHarris]

Is the Titan a better truck than the Ram?



Yeah.



.

:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf:-laf

 

[Grizzly]

While I generally feel Harvey is full of ***** most of the time, Honda makes a great product. Walk-behind mowers are basically an engine sitting on a deck with a blade attached underneath. Pretty hard to screw up. Honda makes incredible small motors. My folks bought an HR195 back in about 1989 and it's still going strong today. The oil has been changed perhaps 5 times, the blade two or three, and the spark plug once.



If I needed to get parts for it, they're still available. Perhaps a better sign of a quality piece is the fact that you don't need to replace parts after 20 years of use, rather than making sure there is a good supply of them?













Is the Titan a better truck than the Ram?



Yeah.



Is it anywhere near as capable?



Nope.





I work for a dealership, and lately we've been seeing brand new Rams fail to start, requiring PCM replacement. That's outstanding for a vehicle with less than 10 miles on the clock. So a customer buys a truck and we can't get it to start in order to drive it over to detail to get it cleaned? Nice.



It's not a fluke if it happens several times.

Sounds like a dealer problem, not a Dodge problem!

 

[mwilson]

Is the Titan a better truck than the Ram?



Yeah.



Is it anywhere near as capable?



Nope.





I work for a dealership, and lately we've been seeing brand new Rams fail to start, requiring PCM replacement. That's outstanding for a vehicle with less than 10 miles on the clock. So a customer buys a truck and we can't get it to start in order to drive it over to detail to get it cleaned? Nice.



It's not a fluke if it happens several times.

Cosmo, I could fill this page with the issues that my SIL has had with 2 Titans, first one destroyed the entire fuel system as a result of a bad tank of gas. At that time Nissan had chosen to build the truck sans fuel filter (yes, no provision for a FUEL FILTER) for some unknown reason. After dumping thousands of dollars into it they gave up and talked her into another one.

That one just got back from a trip on the hook to Bangor for bad front wheel bearings.



Glad that the sister I am married to has more sense.



Spare me, please.



Now if you work at a dealership I don't know if you are a tech, salesman, parts man or a detailer.



Doesn't really matter but you need to broaden your thinking. Yes, failing PCM's are not a pretty sight but it means that the VENDOR that builds this has screwed up, not DODGE.



It will take a few months to find all the bad ones and weed them out but stand behind your product. Shame on you.



Things go wrong for any OEM at times.



Mike.

 

[TFucili]

Seems I recall Titans were coughing up rear diffs at a furious pace.

 

[SVick]

I do not put much faith in Consumer Reports due to my past experiances with them rating home central furnaces and air conditioners. I have been in the residential heating and A/C business for 25 years and own a small HVAC business now and I couldn't understand their ratings when they came out over the last few years. My industry, due to many concerns, published a report from CR about how they did the testing for the report and found it was simply a calling survey with homeowners about their HVAC systems. This is a joke! Anybody want to take a call survey? I can explain more if anyone wants me to. I just wanted to make a point about their ways of gathering info. Anything made will eventually fail and is wearing out from the first time it is used. I have had great luck with Dodge/Cummins trucks since 1996. I have had several Furd vans over the years and they all had issues. I had Furd lemon an 03 6. 0 POS. My Dodges have been the least failed vehicles compared to the others.

 

[AHarris]

CR didn't recommend the Titan either--they actually got that one right.

Most of what Nissan builds is actually decent stuff, but they have always consistently trailed behind Toyota. If you're going Japanese, go Toyota!

Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet, and Toyota 1/2 tons are much better choices than a Titan. If I were in the market for a 1/2 ton, my first choices would be Dodge with a Hemi or a Ford F150 with the Ecoboost V-6.

That's right, I said the F-word.

Ford might not be able to get the Powerstroke diesel right, but you can't beat the F150. My brother's had three of them and they have all ran past 200K with no problems and lots of abuse every day going between construction sites (my brother owns a construction company).

 

[rscurtis]

I think all your comments are right on the money, except the Ford EB engine. Time will tell how well it ages. Many of Ford's gas engines are excessively complicated. It's a pickup, not a high-end sports car.



Hopefully Nissan's new NV van will work out better than the Titan.

 

[Cosmo]

Cosmo, I could fill this page with the issues that my SIL has had with 2 Titans, first one destroyed the entire fuel system as a result of a bad tank of gas. At that time Nissan had chosen to build the truck sans fuel filter (yes, no provision for a FUEL FILTER) for some unknown reason. After dumping thousands of dollars into it they gave up and talked her into another one.
That one just got back from a trip on the hook to Bangor for bad front wheel bearings.

Glad that the sister I am married to has more sense.

Spare me, please.

Now if you work at a dealership I don't know if you are a tech, salesman, parts man or a detailer.

Doesn't really matter but you need to broaden your thinking. Yes, failing PCM's are not a pretty sight but it means that the VENDOR that builds this has screwed up, not DODGE.

It will take a few months to find all the bad ones and weed them out but stand behind your product. Shame on you.

Things go wrong for any OEM at times.

Mike.

I'm a Subaru tech, but our auto group has multiple stores including Kia, Cadillac, Chevy, Buick, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, and Subaru.

So a bad batch of PCMs reflects poorly upon the vendor who provided them, yet the bad wheel bearings on your sister inlaw's truck reflects poorly upon Nissan? I get it.

Getting back to Nissan - what year was her first truck? Looking in Alldata it clearly shows a sock filter on the pump assembly. I would wager that most manufacturers are using a similar setup. Dodge certainly does not do any different in its gas vehicles.

You shouldn't fault an auto manufacturer for a batch of bad gas. If you changed your oil and dumped 12 quarts of ATF in your engine, it's not Dodge's fault you put the wrong fluid in...

Seems I recall Titans were coughing up rear diffs at a furious pace.

Yes, the Titan chewed up a bunch of Dana 44s before the cover was designed to include a LOT of cooling surface area. I haven't heard of this being much of a problem since the correction.



I'm not a big fan of the Titan, however I work on Chrysler products all the time and I know what I see day in and day out. Chrysler has produced a huge amount of absolute garbage over the last ten years. Hopefully things are improving, but I wouldn't rank them high on the reliability front just yet.

Sounds like a dealer problem, not a Dodge problem!

Yeah, because the dealer is responsible for manufacturing the PCM. Riiiight.

 

[mwilson]

So a bad batch of PCMs reflects poorly upon the vendor who provided them, yet the bad wheel bearings on your sister inlaw's truck reflects poorly upon Nissan? I get it.

My point was that all vehicles have their own particular issues.



Subaru's never ending head gasket issue being one that comes to mind.



Mike.

 

[mwilson]

Getting back to Nissan - what year was her first truck? Looking in Alldata it clearly shows a sock filter on the pump assembly. I would wager that most manufacturers are using a similar setup. Dodge certainly does not do any different in its gas vehicles.



You shouldn't fault an auto manufacturer for a batch of bad gas. If you changed your oil and dumped 12 quarts of ATF in your engine, it's not Dodge's fault you put the wrong fluid in...

First Nissan truck was a 2006 I believe.



A filtration system, be it a sock, strainer, or actual filter should be designed to withstand a tank of gasoline with chunks and crap in it without completely trashing the entire fuel delivery system including the injectors.



That is not too much to ask of any vehicle.



Mike.

 

[BIGNASTY]

:-laf

Yes, I believe that Consumer Reports is made up of a bunch of twinkled-toed types who prefer bicycles and Prius cars.

HEY easy on the bicycles HB it's ok to bag on the Prius thou. And as far as twinkled toes did the wife and daughter tell you about painting my toe nails when I was asleep in my easy chair? THEY SEEMED TO GET A KICK OUT OF IT. A guy cant even take a nap around here

 

[Cosmo]

My point was that all vehicles have their own particular issues.



Subaru's never ending head gasket issue being one that comes to mind.



Mike.

Yup. Head gaskets, CV boots, and wheel bearings. Those are our cross to bear, and hopefully the FB motor won't have head gasket issues. Time will tell. We haven't had an issue with wheel bearings or CV boots for the last ~3 production years, maybe they finally got it right.

First Nissan truck was a 2006 I believe.



A filtration system, be it a sock, strainer, or actual filter should be designed to withstand a tank of gasoline with chunks and crap in it without completely trashing the entire fuel delivery system including the injectors.



That is not too much to ask of any vehicle.



Mike.

You would hope so... .



But take a look at our beloved Cummins... factory fuel filter was a 10 micron unit up until recently, but it's widely known that most wear occurs due to particles in the 3-5 micron range. When you're injecting fuel at 30,000 psi, you would think that Cummins/Dodge would spec filtration to protect the fuel system.



Now at least they're filtering down to 7 microns.