Neutral Noise '06 G56...Please help

[JGheen]

So I am having an odd neutral noise coming from my G56 that just started actually yesterday. It sounds like a dry bearing, possibly transmission input shaft. . ... . it only makes noise when in neutral and when I put it into gear the noise goes away and all seems normal. Its not a griding noise just sounds kinda like something is rubbing metal to metal, I am certain a bearing but not sure. I wouldn't think its the pilot or throw-out bearings cuz it drives fine, shifts fine... ... been running Amsoil Universal ATF since 20K, truck now has 76600... . unfortunately 5yr/100K warranty just ran out on my Sept. 30th. :{

Truck is my daily driver, all stock, no programmers ever and is an '06 MegaCab. Any help is appreciated as I can alway count on you guys to help diagnose before I will tear into it.



Thanks a bunch! Joe

 

[JGheen]

So after some further research it appears it very well could b my tranmission input shaft. Did some more extensive listening on the way home tonite and I get the same light grinding/bearing noise in 3rd and 5th gears. Noise is gone and very quiet once dropped into second gear and taking off in second gear. Comes back in 3rd, quiets down in 4th, comes back very prominent in 5th and again not so noticable in 6th. I don't feel any vibration through the shifter nor while any part of driving. Everything seems very tight and normal aside from the noise.

I guess in the meantime I will change out the ATF with some fresh stuff and see how that affects it this weekend. But if anyone has had this experience or could offer some help, it would be most appreciated. Looks like its gonna be a $2K parts job with new SBC DD clutch and some trans work since if in fact the trans input bearing is failing.



Thanks guys,



Joe

 

[JGheen]

Come on fellas, almost 100 views and nobody has any input on this? Help me out good 'ol TDR.....

Thought this G56 was one of the more reliable manual transmissions out there like the NV4500 for example... ...



Joe

 

[cerberusiam]

Not enough info to make a guess.



Does it happen in neutral with clutch in or out? Obviously the clutch is enaged if your hearing it in gear but the neutral noise with the clutch position would be more helpful.



Could be input shaft bearing failure form lack of lube, thats a weak point. Right along with throwout bearings and DMF failure. You need to do some more testing and recording the situations the noise is present and not present.

 

[CKelley1]

it is the dual mass flywheel. i am very suprized it has lasted this long. might be a record set. having the dmf in that long may have damaged the g56 also. when you pull it out check the front seal and bearing. go back with a south bend conofe kit. it has a one piece flywheel with a real pilot bearing. the g56 must have one quart over full to lube and cool the front bearing. pour the last quart in through the shifter. when you have the crappy dmf out on the floor you can see what we are talking about

 

[HBarlow]

Come on fellas, almost 100 views and nobody has any input on this? Help me out good 'ol TDR.....
Thought this G56 was one of the more reliable manual transmissions out there like the NV4500 for example... ...

Joe

Sorry, Joe, I disagree. Neither the NV-4500 or the G-56 are considered "more reliable" by those who have experience with them.

I have not owned a DMF/G-56 truck and am not very familiar with them so I did not jump in here and attempt to diagnose it for you but I would accept the advice of CKelley.

The DMF is a high failure item, propably a 100% failure item by 100k miles on any Dodge Ram used for even occasional towing. It is a likely cause of the noises you are reporting.

If you do a little reading of older posts here you will find lots of discussion of DMF failures and replacement with a traditional solid flywheel and clutch assembly. TDR writer Joe Donnelly discussed related G-56 failures in an issue of TDR magazine a few months ago including the input shaft that CKelley mentioned.

 

[JGheen]

Thanks guys, looks like i will be calling SBC on Monday to get some pricing... . just changed the trans fluid and it looked great, normal amount of metal on the drain plug magnet, t-case fluid was a bit darker but both looked normal from my experience.

The noise has not gone away unfortunately, its not getting worse but I am sure it will. It only makes the noise when the clutch is engaged. When I depress it to start the truck, I don't hear it till I let the clutch out in neutral and it goes away again when I depress the clutch in to put trans into second gear. Don't hear it in 2nd but 3rd on up you can hear it when u drive. Just not a grinding noise, just sounds like a dry bearing, something rubbing almost.

Guess I'm gonna have to tear into it soon.....



I have read the numerous horror stories about the DMF I was just hoping mine would be fine for at least 100K since the engine is bone stock... . guess not. :{



HBarlow, well I had great luck with my oringinal NV4500 in my '98 even when I turned it into a sled puller, that trans never failed on me and IMO is one of the strongest out there. If this G56 can't even take a clutch faliure without getting damaged that says something right there. I went thru the stocker, a POS Centerforce, a Con OFE, a SBC 3850DD then a SBC Iron Giant and after the single disc clutches all eventually slipped and exploded on me, that original NV4500 just kept on trucking with the DD clutches... ... sure wish I had the cash and time to throw one of those in this truck right now.



Well, time to start searching for threads on G56 removal since this will b my first... . plenty experience with the '98 12 valve, however this removal looks easier.



One other question... ... can the trans come out from under the truck without jacking it up? I'm gonna need to do this job in my garage and my truck is just inches from the ceiling so no room to jack up truck any higher... . ??



Thanks a bunch guys!



Joe

 

[seafish]

One other question... ... can the trans come out from under the truck without jacking it up? I'm gonna need to do this job in my garage and my truck is just inches from the ceiling so no room to jack up truck any higher... . ??
Joe

Nope, IIRC you have to jack BOTH the front and rear up AT LEAST 18" to pull the transmission out from under thr truck on a transmission jack.

That being said, I jacked and blocked the FRONT of my truck up as high as I could, then used a transmission dolly jack to pull it back and lower it down, THEN used a regular floor jack to remove it from the transmission dolly and lower it even closer to the floor, THEN rolled it (drained first before even pulling bolts) onto a large piece of outdoor carpet (face down), and ONLY THEN was I able to slide the entire G56 out from underneath the truck by pulling the rug out from underneath the truck. Reassembly was in the reverse order... PITA, for sure, but it worked!!! That suckers HEAVY !!!

HOPE that someone else chimes in here, because I DON"T think there is any way to slide the bellhousing out from underneath without at least picking up the front of the truck!!!

After you remove it, be sure to cover the shift tower hole with something to keep stuff from falling in!! You can stuff a rag in it, or if you are uptight like me :-laf, you can cut a piece of hard plastic OR cardboard to size, drill some holes in it to match the bolt holes on the tower mount, and you are good to go.

 

[AEdelheit]

well if you are just doing the clutch/flywheel you dont have to remove it from under the truck, you can slide it back and towrds the rear far enough to gain enough access to do the job

 

[tron1959]

The orange boot on the shift tower is probably the culprit. They all eventually split and then you are hearing normal noises transmitted into the cab. I had the same noise plus the oil smell in the cab. I temporarily fixed the boot (blue silicone) and also changed from ATF to TORCO RTF GL6 rated oil and the noise is gone. I need to replace the boot as the smell has returned but not the noise. So maybe the lube change has quieted the noise somewhat.

 

[GCroyle]

The orange boot on the shift tower is probably the culprit. They all eventually split and then you are hearing normal noises transmitted into the cab. I had the same noise plus the oil smell in the cab. I temporarily fixed the boot (blue silicone) and also changed from ATF to TORCO RTF GL6 rated oil and the noise is gone. I need to replace the boot as the smell has returned but not the noise. So maybe the lube change has quieted the noise somewhat.

trons1959's comment is valid.



Any dis-placed dust boot on the shifter stick can allow perviously unheard noises to be heard.

 

[dieselpowered]

Is there a part number for the orange boot?

 

[seafish]

When I pulled my transmission to do the clutch, I also found the orange boot torn.

Rather then buy another one that was ONLY going to tear again, I used a Dorman #614-002 universal fit, silicon rubber CV boot.
It is taller and thicker then the orange boot, but also more importantly, it was just the right size on the small end for the shift stick, and I was able to cut the length down so that one of the "steps" in the boot on the larger end also was just the right size to fit over the base of the tower. While it didn't snap-on the base like the oem, I simply smeared a little silicone on it before I put it on, used a couple of zip ties on EACH end, and it was done.
Hasn't leaked yet, no smell... $25

Here is an amazon link--

Amazon.com: Dorman 614-002 HELP! Universal Fit Silicone CV Boot Kit: Automotive

Though you might also find it at your local Napa, Autozone or Oreillys.

 

[dieselpowered]

Thank you, thats a great idea.

 

[JGheen]

Wow, guess I'll have to check that boot before I go tearing into a clutch replacement. I do smell a lot of ATF coming into the cab ever since i changed the fluid over the weekend. Guess I will run by Napa and look for that Dorman universal fit... ... Oo.



If I do just go ahead and change the clutch out, is AEdelheit's comment true?? Is there in fact enough room to just pull the trans back and install a DD from there? That would make it a breeze if that is the case... ...

Either way, I was pretty sure the whole assembly wasn't gonna come out with the truck sitting on the ground. Luckily I got plenty o jacks and blocks to get it up in the air so no problem there.



Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it... .



Does anyone have any links to a thread showing how to replace the G56 input shaft bearing and seal?? Is it just like the NV4500, just unbolting from the housing and is a separate assembly?



Joe

 

[ENafziger]

If I do just go ahead and change the clutch out, is AEdelheit's comment true??

Yup... he's a pretty honest feller

--Eric

 

[JGheen]

Never implied he wasn't honest, I was just surprised that could be done even when installing that masive double disk. Guess there is a lot of room under there to move that trans around without dropping it out... ... good to know, will make a future clutch replacement a breeze... .



Thanks,



Joe

 

[CKelley1]

even if the boot is bad you need to get rid of the dmf before it damages the g56

 

[JGheen]

I hear ya there, trying to get the funds together now for a nice 3250 Street DD. No gonna screw around with a basic Con ofe, never had any luck with a single disc in the past..... plus I always go overkill with my upgrades. :-laf



Joe

 

[ENafziger]

plus I always go overkill with my upgrades. :-laf

That's the way to do it!!! I've never been sorry yet that I installed a quality part