1960 John Deere Diesel Backhoe

[RolandJ]

I have a 1960 john deere 440ID backhoe w a 2 cyl Detroit in it. Its hard to start when i havent used it. Once it has been running it starts fine just if i dont use it today them srat it tom is when prob occurs. It had a leaking fuel line replaced that but no good. I owed one previous and never had this issue only in winter it needed shot of ether. Im thinking its loosing its fuel prime from sitting

 

[d6c]

Low compression makes for hard cold starts-ether is one of the worst things you can do to an engine-washes down cylinders and lowers compression more yet. This is why once you start to use ether it wants it the rest of it's life. I've seen some detroits start terrible and run really rough until they build some heat then have real good power, just use some oil.

 

[d6c]

Re-read my last line, I'm just saying if they don't leak it they burn it. Keep a close eye on oil level. Crack open the throttle when you are cranking it-got smoke? If so, you've got fuel. The cylinder wetted down with diesel will temporarily raise the compression and help it start.

 

[RWalker]

I have a 1960 john deere 440ID backhoe w a 2 cyl Detroit in it. Its hard to start when i havent used it. Once it has been running it starts fine just if i dont use it today them srat it tom is when prob occurs. It had a leaking fuel line replaced that but no good. I owed one previous and never had this issue only in winter it needed shot of ether. Im thinking its loosing its fuel prime from sitting

How old is the fuel? You could have degraded fuel and when fuel degrades the cetane number lowers over time. The better the Cetane number, the better startability of your vehicle.

 

[MVenditti]

Two things you can try alone or together in real cold weather. On Dynahoes with Detroit there was a pull cable to shut down the fuel and stop engine. If you have this hold it out and crank to warm cylinder while slowly releasing lever to send fuel. If using either don't spray into air intake, too much is worse. Spray a puddle under intake and start quick. The fumes getting pulled are usually enough without over doing it. Sorry if it contradicts anyone else, just that these have helped me on older machines.

 

[MVenditti]

Another problem with Detroit was fuel canister gasket gets worn and needs to be changed with filter.

 

[mwilson]

Sounds like the fuel is running back into the tank. Check all fittings and lines from tank to primary filter, and then filter to fuel pump. Rest of system is under pressure when running and would show a fuel leak.



Also with the 6-71 and 8V-71 engines that I operated they would start a lot better if you rolled them over for 3 or 4 seconds, then let off the starter and wait a bit. Then hit the starter again and they will light right off. I believe that relates to the theory above about building some more compression with fuel laying in the cylinder.

 

[RolandJ]

thank you everyone for all the tips and advice. Gotta love the old Road Oiler :-laf . I know the ether is bad gotta just futz around an figure something out.

 

[RolandJ]

How old is the fuel? You could have degraded fuel and when fuel degrades the cetane number lowers over time. The better the Cetane number, the better startability of your vehicle.

The fuel is brandy New

 

[RolandJ]

Well back onto this old relic again. I have a new fuel pump that I want to install and before i do it I wanna make sure that removing it doesnt affect timing . I tried looking at manual but not much revealed . I also thought aboutputting new injectors in if I could find them. Would they have to be timed. Thanks

 

[mwilson]

Well back onto this old relic again. I have a new fuel pump that I want to install and before i do it I wanna make sure that removing it doesnt affect timing . I tried looking at manual but not much revealed . I also thought aboutputting new injectors in if I could find them. Would they have to be timed. Thanks

The fuel pump does not need to be timed. Remove and replace, no worries.



The injectors need to be set if you change them, you will need an injector height tool (or gauge) to set the rocker arm with. Then you have to set the rack adjustment so the two injectors increase and decrease the fuel at the same time. If you have ever heard the expression "Running the rack" that is what they are referring to.

If you decide to change injectors let us know, I'm sure there are more on here that know the 2-stokes besides me.

Will have to identify the correct height tool that you need, we will help you.



Mike.

 

[NIsaacs]

Yup, sometimes called an injector "pic", some injectors give the pic# on the injector body. Engines that turn hydraulic pumps and automatic trannys require perfect starters and big batteries to keep the cranking speed up when cold. I always used starting fluid in the winter in the log woods when needed. Nothing worse then a 24 volt system with dead batteries.



Nick

 

[Hoefler]

Sounds like the back flow valve is bad. Replace it while you are changing the fuel pump.

 

[mwilson]

Sounds like the back flow valve is bad. Replace it while you are changing the fuel pump.

Not a bad idea while you are troubleshooting, they do bother.



Detroit Part Number 5135308



Should look like this... .



Mike.

 

[Nyoest]

For cold starts on a less than perfect DD I soak a rag in a bit of gas and drape it over the air

 

[Nyoest]

For cold starts on a less than perfect DD I soak a rag in a bit of gas and drape it over the air intake. It takes a second or two for the fumes to get to the engine and it isn't near as harsh starting like with either.

 

[RolandJ]

Thanks for that info.

The fuel pump does not need to be timed. Remove and replace, no worries.



The injectors need to be set if you change them, you will need an injector height tool (or gauge) to set the rocker arm with. Then you have to set the rack adjustment so the two injectors increase and decrease the fuel at the same time. If you have ever heard the expression "Running the rack" that is what they are referring to.

If you decide to change injectors let us know, I'm sure there are more on here that know the 2-stokes besides me.

Will have to identify the correct height tool that you need, we will help you.



Mike.

 

[RolandJ]

I will try getting one of those .

Not a bad idea while you are troubleshooting, they do bother.



Detroit Part Number 5135308



Should look like this... .



Mike.

 

[PToombs]

Could you let us know what solves your problem? I had an Allis Chalmers with a 2-71 in it years ago and it started the same way. It was a fresh rebuild with new injectors. The fuel tank was above the engine (behind the seat) so I thought that drain back wasn't a factor. I wondered about the gear type fuel pump but sold it before I cured the problem.

TIA.