Installed HPCR long block

[Tractor Jack]

I'm getting stumped on this one and need some help. First I'm looking for a good Cummins shop in Puget Sound, not really interested in the Dealers.

At 166k I lost my engine to a washed cylinder. Put in a rebuilt long block with ARP studs and a Hamilton cam. The 6 stock 505 injectors were new 1k before. Of course there was a new starter, alternater, belt, hoses, oil cooler, SB clutch. I primed the oil system and had oil to the rockers and oil pressure before it was fired up. The washed out engine smoked bad yet after the change I still had some smoke although a lot less. I was treating it as white smoke and went through the fuel system. Replaced the FAC and cascade overflow, pulled the injectors again looking for anything wrong. Everything checked out good. Did the injector and CP3 bypass flow check. Had some flow from the CP3 on the return line but that should be the cooling/lubricating flow. Coming from the injectors I had 44 ml at 1 min of idle and 73 ml at 1 min of 1200 rpm. That checked good. I have the intank lift pump and have 7 psi at the inlet of the CP3 after both new fuel filters. Contribution test was good. Changed the IAT, MAP also. Fuel heater, fuel heater relay and thermostat are good. Air heater and relays are good.

I then turned to blue smoke troubleshooting. Which it is definetly blue now. With the new long block and the smoke following over after the engine change I started looking at the stock Holset HE351AW. I pulled it and checked it and it passed all the book checks. It seems as though there was more soot after the hot side than in the exhaust manifold. So I changed the turbo out. Well crap, that didn't take care of it.

So where to next? There is no smoke on starting and any warmup time. The smoke is worse during temperature transition, 100 to 180 degrees and stop and go in town.

I've had some random codes come and go. The one that keeps coming back is 483, cooling fan speed. ?

Am I washing a cylinder? How do I determine between rings or valve seals?

It runs good but I don't want to push it until I get it figured out.

 

[Morsed]

Tractor jack try the Power Shop in Enumclaw, The Power Shop - MORE POWER TO YOU

Dave

 

[rscurtis]

It could be nothing more than burning all the residue from the exhaust system that was left there during the failure.

 

[RVTRKN]

For a gas motor, to determine rings or valve seat you would squirt a little oil in the cyclinder if you gain a consideral amount of compression, it's the rings and if it is the same compression, it is the valve seat. But you need to determine if you have low compression in the first place. You could pull the head and inspect the cylinders. Also look into the Computer as an issue, I changed out a timing chain set on a 318 on an early computerized (was located in the air cleaner) engine checked three times going through the steps all over again only to have a rough running engine. When I finally gave up and towed to a competent shop, they started it up and ran just fine. Turned out to be a loose plug on the computer, I really had to sell the fact that the timing chain was correctly installed. It never ran good for me and was a little embarrassed, however the timing chain was worn out with 150k on it

 

[JJPage]

I would try Dynomite Diesel in Monroe, not far from your location.

 

[Nyoest]

How many miles do you have on the new setup?

You can take a temp gun and shoot each cylinder on the exhaust manifold and see if one or two is a lot colder.

 

[Tractor Jack]

More to the saga. It's an 05 3500, NV5600. I have 1500 miles on the new engine during the last 7 weeks that I have been troubleshooting this. Oil flow to and out of the turbine has been checked. I did shoot the manifold with the heat gun looking for a hot cyl. They all read about 195 near the bolts and 210 out from the head more. Should I be looking for a cold cyl rather than a hot one? If there was a cold one, wouldn't it show on the contribution test?

I do not know what the rail pressure is running. Would high rail pressure be causing low rpm "cylinder flooding"? The smoke is when you touch the throttle coming off of idle and putting a small load on it at each shift.

What are the steps for diagnosing the ECM?

It there a way to do a cylinder leakage test as on a gas burner? Special Miller tools?

Thanks for the shop referrals.

Now that I'm useing this and not just reading I'll figure out a signature and truck info. I love ole dependable, my trusted friend, 97 2500.

 

[NIsaacs]

Is the new long block a Cummins re-man? Sounds like low compression, or maybe the wrong pistons for your application? Piston/injector mismatch?



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

Is the new long block a Cummins re-man? Sounds like low compression, or maybe the wrong pistons for your application? Piston/injector mismatch?

Nick

Yeah, I wondered the same thing. Who did the reman? Are you sure about the quality of the rebuild?

 

[RVTRKN]

Is the new long block a Cummins re-man? Sounds like low compression, or maybe the wrong pistons for your application? Piston/injector mismatch?



Nick

Time to pull the head.

 

[Tractor Jack]

I understand the pistons and injectors both changed in 2004. 5 when it went to the 325/600. So what if it had the pre 4. 5 pistons with the 505 injectors?

The longblock came from Blackwater Engines in Norfolk. But I'm not pointing any fingers yet until I figure this out. It does have a 3 yr/75k warranty on the long block. But first I have to find the source and cause of the problem.

Same question still on the rail pressure and too much fuel.

Thanks

 

[RVTRKN]

I'm by far not an expert nor even an novice on diesel engines, but common sense tells me to look into the piston issue first, even if it means to pull the head. But first contact Black Water, and discus this with them, if you pull the head first there goes your warranty. Maybe you can pull an injector and use a camera to see the top of the piston, make sure you can record it at the same time to help with Black Water when/if you dispute it.

 

[cerberusiam]

So what if it had the pre 4. 5 pistons with the 505 injectors?

You would get smoke and haze on accleration and unde rload while being pretty clean at no load.



Pull an injector and run a boroscope in there and verify what piston bowl you have. The differences are pretty obvious.



It is not only the spray and bowl shape but the event duration also contributes to the mismatch. That is easier to deal with than the spray angle mismatch though and would only require changing tips and a programmer to adjust timing.

 

[Tractor Jack]

Hey, that's a great tip. I'll know the piston type today. So the 03-4. 5 have a different injection duration than the 4. 5-07's? The later is doing 3 injections per power stroke I believe.

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, the 03-04 have only 2 events where the 04. 5+ uses up to 3.



The pilot and main events are different shapes crossing the year break. The 04. 5+ actually has a larger pilot event and then the addition of the 3rd event or an extension to the main.



The initial timing and timing ramp is different between the 2 systems as is the pressure maps. The spray angle, bowl design, event timing, event duration, and cam design all work together to provide the power band and emissions compliance.



When 1 or more of these is off you end up with haze, smoke and a different feel to the power band.

 

[NIsaacs]

In line with what Cerb is saying, the Hamilton Cam might be part of the smoke source. Just a thought.



Nick

 

[Motorhead]

Have you contacted the rebuilder yet? If you have 1500 miles on it then maybe an aggressive drive on the engine is in order. NOT a drive it like you stole it but use it. Even hook a loaded trailer to it. I feel that you have oil/fuel residue build up in the exhaust system that a good run might take care of it.

I wouldn't be pulling apart a new, rebuilt engine just yet. I especially wouldn't pull it apart until you contact the rebuilder. My $0. 02

 

[Tractor Jack]

It has the right Mahle pistons.

Blackwater said to drive it. work it, give it more miles and monitor the dip stick thingamajig.

I'm going to put it on the computer and check out the ECM. Anything particular to do or look for on the ECM while it's hooked up.

Has there been much of a problem with corrision or loose cards in them? The connectors are mint.

While I was changing engines I sent the Edge to Odgen to run diagnostics on it, just cause. They found it corroded inside so they replaced it. Could a malfunctioning controller have caused issues with the ECM programming? Electronics just isn't my major.

 

[Tractor Jack]

In line with what Cerb is saying, the Hamilton Cam might be part of the smoke source. Just a thought.



Nick

So the cam change alone could cause some issues?

 

[SWithrow]

Yes, the 03-04 have only 2 events where the 04. 5+ uses up to 3.

The pilot and main events are different shapes crossing the year break. The 04. 5+ actually has a larger pilot event and then the addition of the 3rd event or an extension to the main.

The initial timing and timing ramp is different between the 2 systems as is the pressure maps. The spray angle, bowl design, event timing, event duration, and cam design all work together to provide the power band and emissions compliance.

When 1 or more of these is off you end up with haze, smoke and a different feel to the power band.

Also it is my understanding that the injectors on the 03-04 have a different spray pattern than the 04. 5 +.