HX 35 onto a 1st gen. Kinda.

[RSchwarzli]

So I currently run a 97 HX35 (scoffed off the crew's 12V) on the 1990. But I am running the original H1C non waste gated exhaust housing.

Question is, if I went to the 12 cm wg housing that actually came on the HX, what would that do? I know response would be up a bit over the 18. But the rest of the parameter change????

Thanks

R

Edit: I currently run peak of 33 psi with current said setup.

 

[JHumphries]

Drive pressure wood likely go through the roof!
I've read a few books on turbos, so that is about as far as my experience goes.
If you are running well and getting 33 psi, I would leave it
I would think you would hit max boost sooner, more torque, but it's going to bottleneck the engine.
Maybe as a set of twins.

 

[NIsaacs]

Drive pressure wood likely go through the roof!

I've read a few books on turbos, so that is about as far as my experience goes.

If you are running well and getting 33 psi, I would leave it

I would think you would hit max boost sooner, more torque, but it's going to bottleneck the engine.

Maybe as a set of twins.

I don't know squat about the scientific's of a turbo. I do know there is always a trade off. If it ain't broke don't fix it It sounds like it is working good. If your EGT's are acceptable, it might be hard to improve on.



I would think that as long as you use the wastegate on the 12, it would work a little better, especially if you are at a high elevation. Off idle smoke/boost would improve.



Nick

 

[JLEONARD]

I agree with JHumpries that you will overpressurize yourself. :-laf

It will be like when you have to fart but can't. Your engine won't be happy:-laf

With a wastegate you'd be fine.

 

[RSchwarzli]

LOL. I am perfectly happy. My EGT at 33 psi uphill in 95F with GCWR at 19,000 is never over 1425.

More that I am a curious bugger and I like to play.

 

[JHumphries]

... More that I am a curious bugger and I like to play.

You know what they say:
You have to pay to play.
And some games are more expensive than others. #@$%!

 

[HHhuntitall]

I'm sure it will spool up faster, and you EGTs will go up quicker, and probably higher than they already are. With the VE pump fueling rates, I'm not sure what'll happen on top end..... As for the housing, I've run several 16cm non-wg housings on the HX35s, and they seem to be the best for street and driveability, without a lot of fuel. Upgrade the intake side to a larger intake wheel, and it helps top end a little, with slower spool up on bottom. I don't think you'll be happy with the 12cm... and I thought 14 was stock exhaust housings on the auto '97s?!?

 

[dodgenstein]

First let me say that reading internet stories can be entertaining, but realworld, actual experience is more beneficial. I have run 18,16 ,14 and 12cm housings on my two trucks (1991 D250-Getrag/3. 54 and 1993 W350 dually-A518/originally 4. 10 now 3. 73). There were absolutely no drawbacks to using a 12cm housing. The quicker spooling of the 12 delays the start of higher EGT's and actually runs cooler than my 16 did with POD's. The pedal response is immediate and it clears up low-end smoke. I say go for the 12cm.

 

[RSchwarzli]

You know what they say:

You have to pay to play.

And some games are more expensive than others. #@$%!

Sadly true!

I'm sure it will spool up faster, and you EGTs will go up quicker, and probably higher than they already are.

That is mu guess as well.

First let me say that reading internet stories can be entertaining, but realworld, actual experience is more beneficial. I have run 18,16 ,14 and 12cm housings on my two trucks (1991 D250-Getrag/3. 54 and 1993 W350 dually-A518/originally 4. 10 now 3. 73). There were absolutely no drawbacks to using a 12cm housing. The quicker spooling of the 12 delays the start of higher EGT's and actually runs cooler than my 16 did with POD's. The pedal response is immediate and it clears up low-end smoke. I say go for the 12cm.

Interesting. And thats always what I have done. Play and learn. And as with most forms of education, it can cost you!

 

[cerberusiam]

The 12 cm housing should be fine unless you want 500 HP or better. For a little better performance an HE351 take off would be a good match also. The 60mm comp wheel gives better performance in the mid to upper range. The 56-58 wheel is not bad starts to suffer over 30 psi.

 

[HHhuntitall]

..... and that's why I keep coming back here. Learn something new everyday. I've never fooled with many turbo setups on the 1st gens... . I cut my knuckles on a '96. I ran a 14 on a '97 I had, but it made my EGTs go up at highway speeds, vs the 16. Quicker spooling, yes, but I was after the overall HP number, so... . the 16 was ideal for street on that truck, and has worked well on several others I've had..... The 14 seemed good for a lower HP truck, that didn't have a high rpm. I figured it would be similar on the VE pump.



Dodgenstien, how did the EGTs hold up on long pulls uphill with the 12cm? Did they not climb off the chart?

 

[RSchwarzli]

Cerb

Thanks. That makes sense. Never really thought about the 351s much. Makes sense though.

What is required to install them? Are they not somewhat chip controlled?

 

[NIsaacs]

Dodgenstien, how did the EGTs hold up on long pulls uphill with the 12cm? Did they not climb off the chart?

I think it depends on the wastegate setting and the RPM that you want your power at. I think the bigger the turbine housing the higher the RPM. Pump and cam timing also plays a part. My '01 with the factory turbo likes to run at 30-32 psi (boost elbow setting) and no more than 2300 rpm under full power, loaded up hill.



Nick

 

[cerberusiam]

What is required to install them? Are they not somewhat chip controlled?

The HE351 is bolt on upgrade. You need to build a 4" down pipe, reclock the compressor, and add a boost elbow. Thats all.



The only electronic control is the WG and it defaults to a mecahnical controller without power. Add a boost elbow to the boost refernce line and your good to go.

 

[RSchwarzli]

Boost elbow consists of what exactly?

Nick

I thought it was smaller the housing faster it spins, the faster it spins with a big housing means boom!

 

[cerberusiam]

Boost elbow like the 2nd gens use. Just a fitting with a screw in it to adjust bleed and boost to the WG.

 

[dodgenstein]

..... and that's why I keep coming back here. Learn something new everyday. I've never fooled with many turbo setups on the 1st gens... . I cut my knuckles on a '96. I ran a 14 on a '97 I had, but it made my EGTs go up at highway speeds, vs the 16. Quicker spooling, yes, but I was after the overall HP number, so... . the 16 was ideal for street on that truck, and has worked well on several others I've had..... The 14 seemed good for a lower HP truck, that didn't have a high rpm. I figured it would be similar on the VE pump.



Dodgenstien, how did the EGTs hold up on long pulls uphill with the 12cm? Did they not climb off the chart?

I don't tow real heavy, mostly a loaded car trailer (6-8000lbs. loaded). I don't really have any real long hills (northern, MO and southern IA mostly), or go very far from home (3-400 miles at most). But, that being said, Last Aug I ran out to Abilene, KS and back to get some combine parts. (D250/Getrag) Approx. 90* at 7 AM and got there 114* mid afternoon, 95* when I got home. Loaded weight w/trailer and truck 12000lbs. ran 70mph, A/C on, No EGTs over 1150, unless I really romped on it and it cooled immediately (below 1000*). No engine temp issues either. Mileage w/ POD's 18 unloaded, 16. 2 loaded.

 

[HHhuntitall]

I don't tow real heavy, mostly a loaded car trailer (6-8000lbs. loaded). I don't really have any real long hills (northern, MO and southern IA mostly), or go very far from home (3-400 miles at most). But, that being said, Last Aug I ran out to Abilene, KS and back to get some combine parts. (D250/Getrag) Approx. 90* at 7 AM and got there 114* mid afternoon, 95* when I got home. Loaded weight w/trailer and truck 12000lbs. ran 70mph, A/C on, No EGTs over 1150, unless I really romped on it and it cooled immediately (below 1000*). No engine temp issues either. Mileage w/ POD's 18 unloaded, 16. 2 loaded.

Hmm, see that's where I'm afraid it would bite me... . I can weigh anywhere from 9,000 to 25,000lbs, very rarely up to 30k+(which I HATE in a light duty!!)..... I travel all over, and there are some hills you end up in 3rd gear in, when you're really heavy. I've got PODs, a Colt cam, NV4500..... I'd be afraid the EGTs would climb really high when you downshift at 22-2600 and go to full throttle to pull the hill... ... why I asked...



OH, by the way, my condolences on having a combine...

 

[Nyoest]

Hmm, see that's where I'm afraid it would bite me... . I can weigh anywhere from 9,000 to 25,000lbs, very rarely up to 30k+(which I HATE in a light duty!!)..... I travel all over, and there are some hills you end up in 3rd gear in, when you're really heavy. I've got PODs, a Colt cam, NV4500..... I'd be afraid the EGTs would climb really high when you downshift at 22-2600 and go to full throttle to pull the hill... ... why I asked...



OH, by the way, my condolences on having a combine...

I'm just thinking of a scenario where you have to shift down to 2,600 and go full throttle. Good times.



+1 on the combine. Nothing like buying belt dressing by the case. Where you at in Mo? I'm around Jeff city.

 

[dodgenstein]

I am up in NW MO. @ Hamilton. As for the RPMs, the higher rpms should help as should the cam. Also compressor wheel size is a factor also, I am still running a stock wheel. BTW if your 97 turbo was stock it would have a 12cm housing. Dodge never ran a 14cm housing in stock form only 12 until the HY''s came out.