Towing question for 2001

[jhiers]

Hey guys, I'm looking at buying a 2013 38' Mobile suite that the GCVW is 18,500. My current rig is a 2001 Alfa Gold that the GCVW is 18,000, which I have no problem towing with the mighty Cummins. My truck is bone stock for now, but I plan on doing many upgrades including an exhaust brake and 19. 5" tires. At this time I cannot afford a new truck to accommodate this rig, but I'm in desperate need of an upgraded home on wheels. I know its a heavy unit, but after much research we have decided on this particular one..... if I can safely tow it. BTW, this rig has disc brakes which are great!

Just wanted to hear you guys opinion on this.



2001 Dodge Cummins, 6th speed, 3. 73 gears 133,000 miles

 

[HBarlow]

The key fact to know is how much kingpin weight will that trailer put on your Ram 2500 when it is loaded for travel. My guess is there is no doubt that it will overload the rear tires on your truck making it unsafe and illegal anywhere on public roads.

Have you been getting away with it? Probably. Can you continue getting away with it? I don't know. If you blow a grossly overloaded rear tire or a DOT trooper sends you across a scale, probably not.

You can estimate the loaded king pin weight of that trailer by multiplying the GVWR of 18,500 by 20%. That total is 3,700 lbs. An 18,500 trailer is too heavy for my 3500 cab and chassis.

 

[Slow Six]

We have a 36ft. Mobile Suites which is grossing around 19000lbs. loaded. I'm guessing pin weight at 4500 plus. I have a 2012 3500 dually with the Max Tow package which is rated for 30,000 GCVW. You don't say if you are a dually or not and even if you are that truck is not rated for that load. I see a lot of "idiots" out there hauling these trailers with 2500 series trucks which is totally not safe. I hauled our rig with our 03 dually with the 3:73 gears and six speed for a year. It got the job done but nearly as well as the 2012. If you don't have a Max Brake you will need one or one that is compatible with EOH disk brakes. As Harvey posted above it is not a good idea to not have enough truck. If you get the M/S go for the optional Michelin load range J tires. We like our M/S and now use it full time so it is fully optioned and is heavy. I know a new truck is costly but you are going to spend a lot of money on "upgrades" and still won't have a truck that is truly rated for this load.

 

[jhiers]

The truck is a 3500 dually with 3:73 gears. My previous Cummins was a 1998. 5 with 4:10s, wish I had the 4:10s in this one. We like the MS the best but were considering a Redwood or Heartland Landmark also. I'm gonna have to do some more homework to figure out the weights of all the different ones. I've been fulltiming since 1998 because of my line of work allows me to travel. We've been on the east coast for the last couple of years but plan to head back out west next year, thus my concern about weight. I've pulled those mountains plenty of times in the past, but have grown older and wiser to the weight issue... and yes, I've had the white knuckle experience before. Thanks for your replies

2001 3500 dually, 6th speed, 3. 73, 133,000

 

[RustyJC]

The truck is a 3500 dually with 3:73 gears.



2001 3500 dually, 6th speed, 3. 73, 133,000

A 2001 with 3. 73 gears? Have you swapped rear axles with a 3rd generation or later truck? The Dana 80 was only factory available in the 2nd generation with 3. 54s or 4. 10s.



That 18,500 GVWR trailer is 2,500 lbs over my 16,000 GVWR Mobile Suites. I don't know that I'd want to pull it with my truck below, but it's your choice.



Rusty

 

[HBarlow]

JHiers,

I assumed you had a Ram 2500 because most of the folks who own duallies mention 3500 drw in their signatures and many of those who own 2500s do not mention the truck.

With an '01 Ram dually you may not overload the rear axle and tires but an 18,500 lb. trailer is more than I want to tow with my 3500. You should really consider a Ram 4500 cab and chassis for a trailer of that size and weight. The 4500 has bigger tires, bigger brakes, bigger and stronger frame, and much more suspension, and a choice of gears including 4. 44 and 4. 88, all designed for loads of that size.

 

[jhiers]

Rusty JC, you are correct, it has the 3. 54's. Not sure what I was thinking. I believe I'm getting overloaded on the amount of reading I've been doing lately.

2001 3500 dually, 3. 54, 6th speed, 133,000 miles

 

[GAmes]

Just a little nit pick here. It is either GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) which is what a trailer or tow vehicle would have or GCWR (gross combination weight rating) which is the total of the tow vehicle's and trailer's GVWR. There is no such thing as GCVW. I don't know your home state, but several would require a class A drivers license for that combo. The only way I would pull either trailer with your truck would be if the tanks were totally empty and the trailer unloaded. However, if you have been towing the Alpha Gold, you won't see much difference with the Mobile Suite.

 

[NIsaacs]

Hey guys, I'm looking at buying a 2013 38' Mobile suite that the GCVW is 18,500. My current rig is a 2001 Alfa Gold that the GCVW is 18,000, which I have no problem towing with the mighty Cummins. My truck is bone stock for now, but I plan on doing many upgrades including an exhaust brake and 19. 5" tires. At this time I cannot afford a new truck to accommodate this rig, but I'm in desperate need of an upgraded home on wheels. I know its a heavy unit, but after much research we have decided on this particular one..... if I can safely tow it. BTW, this rig has disc brakes which are great!

Just wanted to hear you guys opinion on this.



2001 Dodge Cummins, 6th speed, 3. 73 gears 133,000 miles

I am going to go a little different direction, but let you make the choice. You have a good heavy duty truck. If you add the exhaust brake and the 19. 5's (on a dually, probably not needed) you will have an even better one. Dodge rates your truck for 20,000 gcwr w/3. 54's and the 2012 max tow at 30,000 gcwr w/4. 10's. I doubt there is 10,000 lbs of gcwr upgrades over yours. So, are you under rated or is the 2012 over rated? You have been hauling heavy since '98 so you have the experience, yet you probably are parked for long periods of time as you work. Your current unit is 18,000 gvw and the new one is 18,500.....



Nick

 

[Cummins12V98]

We have a 36ft. Mobile Suites which is grossing around 19000lbs. loaded. I'm guessing pin weight at 4500 plus. I have a 2012 3500 dually with the Max Tow package which is rated for 30,000 GCVW. You don't say if you are a dually or not and even if you are that truck is not rated for that load. I see a lot of "idiots" out there hauling these trailers with 2500 series trucks which is totally not safe. I hauled our rig with our 03 dually with the 3:73 gears and six speed for a year. It got the job done but nearly as well as the 2012. If you don't have a Max Brake you will need one or one that is compatible with EOH disk brakes. As Harvey posted above it is not a good idea to not have enough truck. If you get the M/S go for the optional Michelin load range J tires. We like our M/S and now use it full time so it is fully optioned and is heavy. I know a new truck is costly but you are going to spend a lot of money on "upgrades" and still won't have a truck that is truly rated for this load.

Our MS 36 SB3 has a tougue wt of 4,500#, 100# on front axle and 4,400# 0n the rear axle. I just changed the factory G614 G to G114 H and alcoa 17. 5 wheels. I would not tow our MS with anything less than our dually.

 

[S.Morris]

As GAmes says about the two different weights, they are pretty close. They are heavy for the truck but you are not inexperienced.



If you are happy with the way it tows the old trailer, I would suggest you will be just as happy if you install an exhaust brake and change to a 4. 11 rear diff ratio . The jump from 3. 54 to 4. 11 will be like getting a new truck with this load. Your transmission and clutch will thank you.



Ideally you would upgrade to a 4500 series.

 

[NIsaacs]

JHiers,

With an '01 Ram dually you may not overload the rear axle and tires but an 18,500 lb. trailer is more than I want to tow with my 3500. You should really consider a Ram 4500 cab and chassis for a trailer of that size and weight. The 4500 has bigger tires, bigger brakes, bigger and stronger frame, and much more suspension, and a choice of gears including 4. 44 and 4. 88, all designed for loads of that size.

You know this and I know this, however Dodge can't figure this out. When they bypassed the 3500/5500 series cab/chassis, all with a max tow rating of 26,000 lbs and gave the 3500 pickup a max tow rating of 30,000 lbs, they lost some credability in my book. Thats why I give my own trucks, my own rating



I don't know if this means anything, but I was just on the Ram website and I can't find a 5500 with an auto, only manual. The 3500 and 4500 show both. Might be just a glitch tho... ...



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

Nick,

If we go to the Dana (axle manufacturer's) website the S-110 rear end assembly used in the Ram 4500/5500 trucks is limited to a GCWR of 26k unless it has been recently upgraded. Personally, I really think the MaxTow 800 ft. lb. and 30,000 lb. GCWR is more advertising hype than fact but I can't blame Ram. Ferd and GM have been exaggerating or lying about their hp, tq, and tow ratings so long they've probably come to believe their own lies.

But I have towed heavy trailers with my current and previous trucks and still would not tow an 18,000 lb. trailer with my Ram 3500 cab and chassis. One time for a short distance to help a friend . . . perhaps. But not on a regular basis.

 

[jhiers]

I'm not sure of the tongue weight of the Alfa, I will need to find this out to see what I'm used to. I do know that I have hauled alot of weight in the past because my ex wife had the RV completely filled. (i probably shaved off 1000#s when I got rid of her). If I could safely tow this trailer by switching out the rear end for 4:11 gears, exhaust brake and a few other mods it would be great. At least for a yr or two until I could afford a MDT. I do usually stay in one place for at least 6 months.
As far as traveling with the tanks full, I have never done that. I keep just enough water to flush the toilet. I even drain the water heater before each trip. That shaves off 10 gallons of water weight.

2001 3500 6th speed, 3:54 gears, 133,000

 

[HBarlow]

I'm not sure of the tongue weight of the Alfa, I will need to find this out to see what I'm used to. I do know that I have hauled alot of weight in the past because my ex wife had the RV completely filled. (i probably shaved off 1000#s when I got rid of her). If I could safely tow this trailer by switching out the rear end for 4:11 gears, exhaust brake and a few other mods it would be great. At least for a yr or two until I could afford a MDT. I do usually stay in one place for at least 6 months.
As far as traveling with the tanks full, I have never done that. I keep just enough water to flush the toilet. I even drain the water heater before each trip. That shaves off 10 gallons of water weight.

2001 3500 6th speed, 3:54 gears, 133,000

It's easy to determine a very close estimate of loaded fifthwheel kingpin weight by multiplying GVWR from the decal on the side of the trailer by 20% to 22% or 23%.

I have towed Alfas including one that had been owned and lived in by an elderly retired couple at an upscale RV resort park at 1000 Palms, CA. Even empty Alfas are heavy. The old couple decided they were getting too old and wanted to return to MO up near Kansas City where they had younger relatives. Everything they owned was in that trailer and it was a triple axle Alfa. I pulled it back for them and I can tell you it was HEAVY - much heavier than I wanted to tow with an ordinary '06 Ram dually.

In light of the fact that you have been towing one nearly that heavy, only move with the seasons, and are probably older and wiser I would recommend you change to 4. 10 gears and keep your old truck another year or two until you can afford a bigger truck. If you don't already have one, buy a MaxBrake brake controller. You will thank me for that advice later.

 

[jhiers]

Thanks for all of your responses and advice. HBarlow, I'll check out the MaxBrake also. I have the Prodigy now and have never been crazy about it.

2001 3500 DRW, 6th speed, 3. 54 gears, 133,000 miles

 

[Cummins12V98]

Nick,



If we go to the Dana (axle manufacturer's) website the S-110 rear end assembly used in the Ram 4500/5500 trucks is limited to a GCWR of 26k unless it has been recently upgraded. Personally, I really think the MaxTow 800 ft. lb. and 30,000 lb. GCWR is more advertising hype than fact but I can't blame Ram. Ferd and GM have been exaggerating or lying about their hp, tq, and tow ratings so long they've probably come to believe their own lies.



But I have towed heavy trailers with my current and previous trucks and still would not tow an 18,000 lb. trailer with my Ram 3500 cab and chassis. One time for a short distance to help a friend . . . perhaps. But not on a regular basis.

I am curious why wouldn't you tow 18K with your truck? My 3500 really handles the my 18,000# well.



I really would like to know,



Thanks

 

[HBarlow]

Because it stresses the hell out of the entire driveline during launch and weighs twice what the truck weighs.

A better question might be why do you think Ram engineers calculated gross combined weight ratings far less than 18k for all Rams except the advertising hyped MaxTow models?

 

[Cummins12V98]

Because it stresses the hell out of the entire driveline during launch and weighs twice what the truck weighs.

A better question might be why do you think Ram engineers calculated gross combined weight ratings far less than 18k for all Rams except the advertising hyped MaxTow models?

I would say it is because they want to covet their butts for the people that full throttle start on steep hills and the such. I know I am over loaded on paper, no doubt about that but I know I am not overly stressing the running gear because I start my load rolling at light throttle and then slowly roll in to it. On the grades i keep the rpm's up. When I am going into a head wind or smaller grades I hit 5th and my rpm's are a bit higher than the 4:10 in 6th.

 

[RVTRKN]

I am curious why wouldn't you tow 18K with your truck? My 3500 really handles the my 18,000# well.

I really would like to know,

Thanks

Because it stresses the hell out of the entire driveline during launch and weighs twice what the truck weighs.

A better question might be why do you think Ram engineers calculated gross combined weight ratings far less than 18k for all Rams except the advertising hyped MaxTow models?

I would say it is because they want to covet their butts for the people that full throttle start on steep hills and the such. I know I am over loaded on paper, no doubt about that but I know I am not overly stressing the running gear because I start my load rolling at light throttle and then slowly roll in to it. On the grades i keep the rpm's up. When I am going into a head wind or smaller grades I hit 5th and my rpm's are a bit higher than the 4:10 in 6th.

Hsmartash would be the first to tell you that Rams GCVWR doesn't mean squat when towing, even commercial. As long as your within Axle ratings, your legal. Now warranty can be voided if over Dodges GCVWR, but as long as you stay within axle ratings your legal. I wouldn't hesitate to pull that 5vr with my 3500 C&C, with 3:73 gear set, DMF, G56 and stock suspension, but I do have a Class A license.