High engine idle and white/blue smoke and hard starts

[scottyconcrete]

We have a 2005 3500 cummins 5. 9 turbo truck with 60,000 miles. We have installed an air intake and exhaust, a Smarty Jr. , an Air Dog II. Recently started having hard starts and large amounts of white/blue smoke when starting. This continued whether warm or cold. Returned the programming back to stock, tested power to the intake heater. Started having less smoke and slightly easier start but still hesitating and not firing up as usual. Also noticed that our RPM at idle speed is 8. 3 whereas other 2005 with similar changes are running at idle speed RPM approx 7500.



Question is: What is the typical RPM idle speed, and any suggestions on the smoke and starting issue?

 

[Prairie Dog]

First I would replace the FCA and if that doesn't fix it then more evaluation is needed. It kinda sounds like injectors but 60K is awful early for that kind of problem.
Typical idle speed is about 750~780 RPM's and being off is often a sign of the FCA sticking.

 

[MChrist]

Isn't there a test using 2 stroke oil in the tank to see if that changes things? Something about if the problem goes away, then it is the FCA? If you search, you will find more info.

Good luck and welcome to the forum. There are many sharp guys here that can help you ( not me, unfortunately!)

 

[scottyconcrete]

Could the FCA going bad be caused by a pinched fuel line?? When we had the Air Dog II installed, they ran the line in such a way that the line was pinched between the tank and the frame for a few days until we saw the problem.

 

[scottyconcrete]

So... ... After lots of time and testng, realized the lift pump on the Air Dog II was out (not running). When we first installed the Air Dog II it took about a week for us to realized we pinched the fuel line from the tank to the lift pump. We thought this was our problem as we assume we starved the pump durring this time. This week we received the replacement lift pump from Air Dog (who were great about it!!) and installed it. Truck still is blowing white smoke and studdering on startup. However; we did throw a code this time on the smarty jr. It was a malfunctioning engine temp sensor among other codes. The truck is still running at 8. 3 steady RPM at idle and never drops below that.
We've been told our issue is the heater grid for the intake, the FCA, bad injectors, and now the temp sensor. We really hate to start throwing parts at it but where do we start???? The truck only has 60k on it and we just don't have much experience working on these trucks but are not comfortable having several people work on it.

 

[AEdelheit]

Id rule out the heater grid unless your starting it below 30, Ive seen these trucks start at 5 with no grid heater many times, stumbles a little but still start better then a 7. 3 or 6. 0 power joke with the heater. My FCA went bad, I first noticed extended crank times and rough start up, then it would die when I would come to a stop. I would not put 2 stroke oil or ATF in a Common rail truck, if anything drain the filter housing, fill it with Stanedyne and it may help but far from conclusive. If you search FCA on here you will find some diagnostics you can do to it. I have seen temp sensors cause this issue on gas engines but doubtful on ours, even if it raised the idle it shouldn't cause smoke. Unfortunately starving the pump likely caused damage to the CP3 or injectors. Are there any reputable shops near you that have the proper diagnostic tools for these trucks?

Did you check the fuel in the tank to make sure its not contaminated or a filter didint clog??

 

[scottyconcrete]

Filters on the Air Dog II are only 2 months old????? We were having issues prior to the Air Dog; we thought the lift pump was going out so that is why we installed the Air Dog. We have the fuel filter changed on every other oil change and at our current mileage rate that was about a month ago. We are concerned about the CP3 but the issues were beginning before the Air Dog was installed?? We took the truck yesterday to our only shop with a dignostic tool for this truck and they came up with no codes; but the Jr. came up with Three. One of them was the temp sensor. We are in Utah so startup is about 30-45 morning at this time of year but issue started when temps were higher. We have put the CP3 and injectors lower on the list of possibilies as this issue started prior to the air dog install but we are watching them close. We will search for the FCA diagnistics you mentioned but it has only 65k on it and from other posts this is a little early for this issue.

 

[JJPage]

Here is a link to some basic diagnostics, http://oregonfuelinjection.com/index.php?page=sec/dodge-diesel-diagnostic-info.htm

 

[scottyconcrete]

This is exactly what we were looking for. Threw new troubld codes at startup today. P0116--ECT sensor rationality; P0251--CP3 pump regulator control (FCA); P0628--low voltage detected at lift pump.
We ran a few backyard tests. Checked FRP's before start up 1. 7 after the lift pump cycled, started the truck and was fluctuating from 6-8 FRP for several minets then the FRP's leveled out at 7. 1-7. 6. Truck was not warmed up and RPM remained steady at 832.
Noticed a change in the pitch of the lift pump at the same time the FRP's were so irratic. Thinking FCA???
However, noticed that the voltage drop associated with the change in pitch of the lift pump and irratic behavior of the FRP's was happening a split second before the reaction of the pump. This is a new symptom as of this morning, temp is 45. Wondering if there is any way that the Temp control issue is associated with this or is the FCA getting worse and causing the voltage issue??? Ordering new pump today from Ginos. Still concerned about the fact that FRP's should be lower and RPM is lower; also the truck is not "speeding up" on startup while cold until warmed up like our older model Dodge (Cummins) or other trucks similar to our '05. FCA?

 

[JJPage]

What's the condition of your start batteries and connections?

 

[scottyconcrete]

Good, checked those

 

[scottyconcrete]

Here is the update
We received our new FCA from Gino's monday. When we removed the old FCA, there was no rattle when shaken (suggestion in manual). Installed new FCA... ... No change; RPM still @ 832, FRP's still fluctuating, intermittent studder/smoke on startup (reguardless of outside temp). Felt good about replacement due to no rattle and P0251 code.
Ordered new Engine temp sensor from dealer tuesday. Received Wednessday and installed... ... Still no change; felt good about replacement due to code thrown a few days ago.
Rep at Gino's suggested we may have a dirty fuel tank. Dropped the tank and replaced the Air Dog filter Thursday and inspected, looked clean but cleaned anyway. Also noted that the person we had install the Air Dog II did not grind the top of the intank fuel pump bucket/housing smooth so the fixture was not sealed very well and the holes they drilled in the basket were WAY to low. Replaced the moduel and followed Air Dog II instructions for modification correctly. Reinstalled tank, ect... ... ..... Still no change; drove the truck about 10 miles to town, shut off (at grocery store) and took three tries to start.
Parts dealer suggested that we may want to pull the power connections to both batteries for no less than 30 min to clear all codes. Stated the Edge may clear codes but some might remain. Stated they were having this issue with other models of newer Dodge vehicles. This one is free and as we are "shooting in the dark" wont hurt. Going to try this today but don't have much hope it will fix the problem; hoping will just throw some codes for further diagnosis.
Any other suggestion??????????

 

[JJPage]

Re-torque cross tubes to 39 ft lbs.

More info that may be useful,
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=81936

 

[scottyconcrete]

Here is the update... ...
We appreciate the link and checked those wires. Found a small knick and repaired. Also found several wires that were damaged due to fire with the previous owner. Repaired those. Wrapped them all and replaced the Coax covers. Durring this time we had the batteries disconnected for several hours. Put truck back together and started..... No change, no new codes.
We also noticed the air dog seemed to be running hard so we are going to check for air leaks at the tank, pump, and fittings. We believe the tank was leaking air after the first install, could this have aggrivated an issue?????
To retorque the cross tubes, we can just tighten the fuel line to the injectors right????

 

[Bob4x4]

There are many reputable diesel performance shops in Utah that are well versed in injector and pump diagnostics. I would find one and save some time and head ache. With out the tools and diagnostic skills you are spinning your wheels. (and wasting your money)

 

[JJPage]

To retorque the cross tubes, we can just tighten the fuel line to the injectors right????

No, remove intake horn, and injector lines from cross tubes. The cross tubes are held into the head with a locking nut, can't remember size(19/24mm). Just re-torque this lock nut to 39 ft lbs. Put truck back together.

There is an injector install thread with photos that member sag2 put together. My link to that thread no longer works or I would have posted it. If you can find it, it will show in great detail, the cross tubes and how they connect to injectors and head.

 

[Paychk]

here is the link:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...all-procedure-with-photos&highlight=injectors

 

[JJPage]

here is the link:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...all-procedure-with-photos&highlight=injectors

Thanks, I bookmarked it. My old bookmark brings up TDR but says "bad url".