04' International

[frank1]

I own a 2004 International truck w/ a DT466 and six speed manual. Just recently, my tach. and speedometer do not function. When you first turn the key to the on position all the gauges go from left to right, including the tach. and speedometer. However, once the engine is running the two gauges do not work. I checked the fuses located in the passengers dash, any other places to look or check??? I've only owned the truck for the past two years and do not really know much about it . Thanks, Frank

 

[BDaugherty]

it's most likely your gauge cluster. a shop with the right scan tool can tell you for sure in under an hour.

 

[frank1]

Thanks, BDuagherty - I will look into it. Frank

 

[Wayne M.]

I think in those years IH started using CANBUS and networking. Definitely get a scanner on it. There might be separate diagnostics on the cluster, like our trucks have.

 

[BDaugherty]

There might be separate diagnostics on the cluster, like our trucks have.

There is. I can't remember exactly what the program is called, but there are 2 International programs that I have for gauge clusters. One is for the older style "3 box" and the other works on the newer style. Basically, you hook up and manually command the problem gauge to read a predetermined amount. If it does what it's told, the cluster is OK and just getting bad inputs. If it doesn't respond, the problem is in the cluster. There's a little more to it than that, but that's the basics of the matter. You could spend a lot of time on it and still be guessing, or you could find someone who has the correct tooling and pay them an hour of diagnostic time. Then swap out the parts yourself if you're so inclined.

 

[frank1]

Thanks guys for all your help. I had the truck inspected last week along with the yearly puff test,when I picked up the truck is when I noticed the two gauges not working. When I had driven two miles I PULLED OVER AND CALLED THE SHOP THAT HAD DONE THE INSPECTIONS and told them about the problem and asked was there anything they may have done while doing the inspections. They said no, there is no reason to plug into the trucks electronics and everything they did was mechanical. Ironic that everything worked fine the day I dropped off the truck for service?He did tell me to come back and he would do a scan on the truck for $125. 00. I told him to busy right now, will call when things slow down. That's why I posted the question of what might be wrong. I also spoke to a guy in town and he told me to check all my grounds. I'll keep you guys posted. Frank

 

[BDaugherty]

You can always try to "microsoft" repair. You know... unhook the batteries long enough to let everything reset then hook back up and try again. I really wouldn't think scanning it electronically would disrupt your gauges. The only possible thing I can think of that someone might have done would be to disrupt a speed sensor while checking around. You might call around to some other shops with the right diagnostic program and see if they will scan it cheaper... also, sometimes shops will charge you a diagnostic fee, but waive it if they perform the repair.

One thing you need to know about the DT466 is that is has wet cylinder lines. That's a good thing, but it means that you need to either run an extended life antifreeze such as Rotella ELC or maintain the level of SCA (supplemental coolant additive).

 

[Wayne M.]

Thats all good advice. Especially the coolant, something we dont worry about on our rams.

 

[frank1]

BDaugherty - now that you mentioned coolant levels, this past week while driving, the check coolant level light would come on and off for a few seconds maybe four times during the day??? The coolant level in the side reservoir is at maximum. I check it every morning before start up and at the end of the day. Also, the truck had a complete in frame rebuild with only 147,000 miles on the clock. The truck literally blew up twenty miles down the road from where I HAD BOUGHT IT !!!!! White smoke out the tail pipe and hardley any power! Luckly there was a International dealership at the next exit! The dealer where I bought the truck paid for most of the repairs, my total cost was $2,500. 00. At the time I thought that was fair and I really needed the truck. Truck has a sixteen foot grain body dump and is a great addition to my landscaping company.

 

[BDaugherty]

a few months ago i inframed one with similar mileage after it lost a liner seal. i didn't mean coolant level, i meant addative level in the coolant. also, check your coolant level switch. could be gunked up, bad, or have messed wiring.

 

[Wayne M.]

The engine in the truck has removable cylinder liners. Those are the actual cylinders, or jugs as some call em, that is the cylinder the pistons ride in. (a REAL truck engine!!!) They are sealed top and bottom, and the walls of the liners themselves can corrode from the outside, due to a reaction to bad coolant. The seals can leak. Do you know if the engine has a separate coolant filter? It will look small like a car oil filter. This is a company that makes the filters, the treatment products, and has info you need about that cooling system. If your truck does not have one, you can add it. It's part of the spec for our trucks that have big engines...
http://www.penray.com/managex/index. asp?x=322&y=324&articlesource=324&navID=power

I urge you to poke around on here a bit...

 

[rscurtis]

Not too long after I bought my 2002 4300, I got a package in the mail with a coolant additive and instructions to immediately add it to the cooling system. I would assume it was the SCA additives discussed here. The truck also had its share of electrical gremlins, but not as bad as some. An electrician I know had the same driveline for a service truck, and when his fuel level sender went south (as mine did too), it acutally upset the firing order in the ECM.



For the type of service and life expectancy of this type of truck, I think it's time for Navistar to go to a parent bore engine in the 466 and save the liners for the larger 530 and 570. They seem to cause more issues than they solve. Then again, we don't know how much of this once-legendary engine has been compromised by corporate bean counters, now the scourge of this once-great company.

 

[Bob4x4]

Do not overcharge the cooling system either which is easy to do if you install a filer with chemicals and additive to cooling system at the same time

 

[Wayne M.]

This is what we use to test levels. Obviously you don't need a whole bottle, but you can see concentration and nitrite levels. Maybe they sell them by the packet. Maybe fleetguard has them too.

 

[mwilson]

View attachment 83940



This is what we use to test levels. Obviously you don't need a whole bottle, but you can see concentration and nitrite levels. Maybe they sell them by the packet. Maybe fleetguard has them too.

Fleetguard does indeed offer a smaller quantity if needed. Don't buy them too far ahead. They have a fairly short shelf life. I have to throw expired ones away about twice a year... ...



Sold as follows. . Fleetguard part numbers



pack of 50 is CC2602



pack of 4 is CC2602A



single strip is CC2602B



All include the chart needed to interpret the results.

Mike.

 

[frank1]

Just got back in, popped the hood and on my 3" pipe leading from the radiator to the top of the engine there is a sticker on the pipe that reads " Do not use conventional Coolants or SCA's ". "Use either Delco or Teaxco ELC, prediluted 50/50 mix ". ???? My truck was originally a Pensky Box truck. How I found out this information is when I went down to my local Inter. Dealer to buy an air and fuel filter. The parts counter guy wanted the serial number for the truck which I gave him. As soon as he entered the number into his computer he says " a God a Pensky Truck!". I asked him whats wrong and his replay was that Pensky wanted differnt spec's for his trucks. ??? Hence different part numbers. Could this be why the sticker reads no SCA's ??? Just guessing at this point. Frank

 

[Wayne M.]

Well, sounds like roger had a stake in that coolant. It's a dexcool organic type coolant similar to the factory fill in our rams. We don't test for SCA either. You stated that the engine has had major work done. I'd be curious if the shop put the proper coolant back in. If not, that could be why you're having sensor trouble. I would really considering doing a dump n flush and put a quality truck coolant in with a filter added on. That site has info on converting if I recall. Good luck.

 

[frank1]

Wayne, thanks for your help. The truck engine was rebuilt at Bucks County International in PA. According to them there was an "o ring failure on cylinder #4 ". Hopefully they did install the right antifreeze, is there a way I can test it ? The engine only has 8,000 miles since the rebuild. Also, where would the antifreeze filter be located? Does not look like anything installed above the frame rail. Could it be installed below the rail? Thanks, Frank

 

[Wayne M.]

Do you have a repair order for the job ? It might be called out on that. What color is the coolant? If its green or red, it's probably truck AF. Gold or brown it might be the organic stuff. You could also try the test strips, and if they don't respond/ give a false reading, it's prolly the organic.
Gathering what you been posting, unless bucks put a filter on and truck AF, it wouldn't have one. It's been a long time since I saw a DT. I would remember where it would be. Add on kits would look like a filter on a bracket with small fuel line size hoses. Could be anywhere. High low front back of engine. I remember a truck we had was a 6BT and had a filter plumbed in because it was in the spec.

 

[mwilson]

Wayne, thanks for your help. The truck engine was rebuilt at Bucks County International in PA. According to them there was an "o ring failure on cylinder #4 ". Hopefully they did install the right antifreeze, is there a way I can test it ? The engine only has 8,000 miles since the rebuild. Also, where would the antifreeze filter be located? Does not look like anything installed above the frame rail. Could it be installed below the rail? Thanks, Frank

The o-ring failure could have the result of it being pinched when it was installed, liner pitting is usually from improper antifreeze maintainence. The coolant should be checked regardless.



Grab one of those test kits I described on the first page, cheap and easy.



I'm not sure where the coolant filter would be on your DT-466, most other engines have it on the right hand side of the engine as that is where the external coolant lines and unused ports are located.

If you test the coolant and add additives when testing indicates it is required you don't need a filter anyways in the event your engine does not have one. Penske might have passed on that to keep costs down. Multiply the cost of a water filter option on 500 trucks versus using the Penske approved coolant in those trucks, I bet it adds up to quite a savings.



Mike.