half ton diesel - why?

[JR]

27 mpg out of a vp powered truck, Gary you must tell us your secrets

 

[RustyJC]

Agree Harvey on the EPA and all their BS, however, envirnomental type regulations are much more stringent in Europe, and taxes on fuel are more expensive in Europe than here in the States. Atually if you sold the diesel engine they are offering in the 1500 Ram, you would have to pay a tax on it in Euorope, because it has a larger displacment than 2. 0L.



Has to be more to it than just regulations, they are the same or tougher/more expensive in Europe, yet more than half the vehiles sold in Europe are diesels.

U. S. regulations target NOx and particulates, areas where the diesel operates at a disadvantage. European regulations target greenhouse gases, particularly CO2, where the diesel has an advantage over the Otto-cycle (gasoline) engine.



Rusty

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

27 mpg out of a vp powered truck, Gary you must tell us your secrets

2wd truck, 3:56 rearend (as I recall) steady speeds at just over 60 mph (55 mph Oregon speed limit!), and well matched power mods that ENHANCE fuel economy when driven conservatively - I normally run the Edge Comp on 1x1 when empty, 3x3 towing - and towing is at the same speeds as when empty. And yes, MPG is hand figured, not the lying computer!

Yeah, I LOVE this truck, and NO plans for replacement on my radar!

 

[HBarlow]

Only time will tell what average fuel consumption of the new V6 diesel will offer. Compare a new Sprinter van with a Ram 1500:
Both weigh about the same at roughly 5200 lbs
Both will utilize V6 3. 0 diesels, but different manufacturers
Sprinter drag coefficient is . 32 vs 1500 Ram . 35-. 36
Sprinter doesn't offer 4WD, hence less mechanical friction/drivetrain loss.
Real world mpg of the new Sprinter is 19 (www.fuelly.com)

I just have a hard time believing the new diesel 1500 will surpass 19 mpg average. On a highway-only trip, I'm sure it will, but not average.

I really hope I'm wrong.

Me too. I think that is mostly wishful thinking.

 

[JR]

Cool Gary, Im doing good to break 20-21 mpg on the highway but Im at a bit higher speeds (65) and Im 4x4 as well... .
My best average on a tank of fuel was last summer when we went to NJ I averaged 20. 5 that was 99% running down I80 with my topper on the back. Thats the first road trip Ive ever taken without a trailer of sorts in this truck, usually Ive got something hooked to the rearend if Im leaving town with it.

 

[HBarlow]

Agree Harvey on the EPA and all their BS, however, envirnomental type regulations are much more stringent in Europe, and taxes on fuel are more expensive in Europe than here in the States. Atually if you sold the diesel engine they are offering in the 1500 Ram, you would have to pay a tax on it in Euorope, because it has a larger displacment than 2. 0L.

Has to be more to it than just regulations, they are the same or tougher/more expensive in Europe, yet more than half the vehiles sold in Europe are diesels.

Overall fuel prices are higher in Europe than ours but it is a comparative issue not a specific dollar or Euro amount. We are forced to pay higher fuel taxes on diesel fuel than gasoline. I believe it is the opposite in Europe.

As Rusty explained better than I can, our Economy Punishment Agency attacks diesel emissions more severely than gasoline engine emissions.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Cool Gary, Im doing good to break 20-21 mpg on the highway but Im at a bit higher speeds (65) and Im 4x4 as well... .
My best average on a tank of fuel was last summer when we went to NJ I averaged 20. 5 that was 99% running down I80 with my topper on the back. Thats the first road trip Ive ever taken without a trailer of sorts in this truck, usually Ive got something hooked to the rearend if Im leaving town with it.

I've gone to 285/75R load range E tires on the truck for a bit more OD effect, cruise RPM at 60 MPH is down around 1600, and on the occasions where curvy steep grades slow me down enough towing, 5th gear RPM is still at a comfortable level at up to 55 MPH and better.

I have a 50 gallon in-bed tool/fuel box, and the added fuel range is great when traveling/towing, and gives lots better selection of lower priced fuel outlets...

 

[JR]

I've gone to 285/75R load range E tires on the truck for a bit more OD effect, cruise RPM at 60 MPH is down around 1600, and on the occasions where curvy steep grades slow me down enough towing, 5th gear RPM is still at a comfortable level at up to 55 MPH and better.



I have a 50 gallon in-bed tool/fuel box, and the added fuel range is great when traveling/towing, and gives lots better selection of lower priced fuel outlets...

I just went from a 285/75 to a 4th gen wheel with factory BFG 265/70/17 and although I havent ran a whole tank of fuel through it quite yet, I can tell from where Im at on a half tank that Im getting slightly better mileage. The biggest thing Ive noticed is the smaller tires have gotten me back into the sweet spot of the engine. Im running slightly higher rpm's but going by egt's its less load on the engine.



Im also an auto compared to your 5600 so that could very well be the key to our different outcomes with the tires

 

[JR]

U. S. regulations target NOx and particulates, areas where the diesel operates at a disadvantage. European regulations target greenhouse gases, particularly CO2, where the diesel has an advantage over the Otto-cycle (gasoline) engine.



Rusty

So going by that theory where was the US regulations prior to 2007 compared to Europe? It just seems to me that if the demand was here to build diesel engines it would have been here prior to the choke hold.

 

[RustyJC]

Euro diesel manufacturers didn't want to send their engines to the U. S. until we cleaned up our fuel (relative to Europe's) with the introduction of ULSD. There's also the perception among Euro manufacturers that U. S. consumers (unlike Europe) don't like and won't buy diesels in sufficient volume to justify the import, certification, product support, etc. costs that are required to bring a diesel to the U. S. If Chrysler is going to use the VM 3. 0 in the Grand Cherokee, there's really no good reason not to use it in the Ram 1500 since most of the hurdles have already been cleared.

And what I gave you was a FACT, not a THEORY regarding US versus Euro emissions standards. Check it out for yourself.

Rusty

 

[JR]

The "theory" I was referring to had nothing to do with you. It goes back to the argument that diesel engines arent being built here due to the strict emissions. They werent popular prior to 07 and even earlier than that when the laws were much looser. If the demand for them was stronger, they would be here regardless.

 

[cerberusiam]

It just seems to me that if the demand was here to build diesel engines it would have been here prior to the choke hold.

The demand is not here because we are in love with our relatively cheap gas and fast cheap throw away cars.

How many Taurus's do you think Ford would sell here if they cost $100k and lasted for 500k miles? The european mind set for car buying is radically different and THAT drives the market.

The Daimler Chrysler merger is a perfect example of the radical differences between US and European markets.

 

[RustyJC]

We'll see if the VM 3. 0 is a market flop or a booming success in due time. The market will tell us, just as it did with Ford's EcoBoost that pretty well shot down the theory that real 1/2 ton pickups must have a V-8 engine. Whether justified or not, the EcoBoost has a 43% take rate in the F-150, even at a hefty price premium.

Rusty

 

[JR]

The demand is not here because we are in love with our relatively cheap gas and fast cheap throw away cars.

How many Taurus's do you think Ford would sell here if they cost $100k and lasted for 500k miles? The european mind set for car buying is radically different and THAT drives the market.

The Daimler Chrysler merger is a perfect example of the radical differences between US and European markets.

Agreed. The American manufactures build what the American economy wants in general... cheap throw away cars. Theres more of them on the road here than quality built. Which is my point onthe diesels, if thats what was selling it would have been here many years ago regardless of the tree huggers as some put it. I cant remember exactly the years but VW completely quit selling diesels here for some time. If the demand was here they would have found a way to make them compliant and continued to sell them. Or maybe an American manufacture would have picked up on the capital but as it was they were hardly missed by many but us loyal enthusiasts which are in the vast minority

 

[jgillott]

I'm guessing that the Diesel 1500 wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the EcoBoost Ford. I agree that it changed the way the public looks at the 1/2 truck market. Of course, the 300 l6 Ford, Slant 6 Dodge, and 250/292 l6 GM were extremely common in the 70's up to the mid '90's in the case of the Ford. It's amazing how quick the public forgot about those engines.

 

[BIGNASTY]

The demand is not here because we are in love with our relatively cheap gas and fast cheap throw away cars.



How many Taurus's do you think Ford would sell here if they cost $100k and lasted for 500k miles? The european mind set for car buying is radically different and THAT drives the market.



The Daimler Chrysler merger is a perfect example of the radical differences between US and European markets.

Cerb

I will agree with the differences in the markets. Allot of it comes from the Europeans having a Mass Transit system that ACTULLY WORKS. They dont take the car or truck for granted as we do.



BIG

 

[cerberusiam]

Allot of it comes from the Europeans having a Mass Transit system that ACTULLY WORKS. They dont take the car or truck for granted as we do.

That would make a difference for sure.

The other big difference is vehicle ownership and riving in european, and other countries also, is a privlege and treated as such.

Here it is demanded as a right no matter what. "Lord Mr Ford, what have you done... ... . ". :-laf

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Cerb
I will agree with the differences in the markets. Allot of it comes from the Europeans having a Mass Transit system that ACTULLY WORKS. They dont take the car or truck for granted as we do.

BIG

All that IGNORES the FACT that most of European population is concentrated in large central areas, where mass transit CAN operate efficiently, not like the far more far-flung and isolated populations in the US, where mass transit simply CAN'T operate efficiently or profitably.

WANT efficient mass transit, and to get rid of your private vehicles? SIMPLE, just move most of the USA into the big cities - but of course, you'll ALSO get the ghettos, rampant violence, and all the other societal "goodies" that go with it!

Is that REALLY what we in the USA want and see as the "fix"?

Why is it so often suggested we in the USA should somehow feel guilty for our lower priced fuel, and desire for larger homes and vehicles? Seems like lots of those aliens, legal and otherwise want in here for all the SAME reasons and benefits...

And NO, *I* sure do NOT feel ashamed or guilty!

 

[S.Morris]

The VW quit selling in NA for 2 years because they could not meet the emission requirement changes with that platform.

 

[BIGNASTY]

All that IGNORES the FACT that most of European population is concentrated in large central areas, where mass transit CAN operate efficiently, not like the far more far-flung and isolated populations in the US, where mass transit simply CAN'T operate efficiently or profitably.

WANT efficient mass transit, and to get rid of your private vehicles? SIMPLE, just move most of the USA into the big cities - but of course, you'll ALSO get the ghettos, rampant violence, and all the other societal "goodies" that go with it!

Is that REALLY what we in the USA want and see as the "fix"?

You dont have to convince me my Parents moved to Orange County Calif. when I was 11 years old and with the exception of a 4 year hiatus going into the Military that LA basin of So Calif was home. There are places that rely heavily on Mass transit the NY people and surrounding area are almost EXCLUSIVLEY transit people, Do I want to live there NO!!. In Europe travels that we have taken we fly to England and take the train to France from there you can be ANYPLACE with hours at the most. Europeans for the most part dont rely on the cars as grocery getter's they do STRANGE THINGS LIKE WALK ride bikes and when they do go out to visit the outdoors they dont go out in some over priced over sized truck and 40ft trailer to do it I THINK THEY CALL IT MODERATION??? We went to the Tour de France a few years ago and used the transit system to follow the tour around for 3 weeks, Rented a car a few days and did some sightseeing the strange thing was that we NEVER SEEN ANY TRAVEL TRAILER,5 TH WHEELS they were mostly all the van conversions again Moderation. Its our society that has made the OIL companies take charge of how and how much we pay to travel they are at odds with the trains because they dont use as MUCH FUEL to do the same thing and heaven knows that when I worked for Chevron I DIDNT EITHER.

BIG

PS the reason that allot of people come over here is for the FREE CRAP( aka Mexico) that is handed out to them without working just look at most of the people that have made a life on welfare and unemployment they ARE OUR VERY OWN PEOPLE most that come over here from other lands work.