Plastic Pipe

[BIGNASTY]

Anyone have any experience with this type of product. FIL/Son are going to dig several deep ponds or tanks on their property to water cattle. The water pump that I have posted on here a few months ago will supply the water to the ponds or tanks via water lines. We were wondering if these buried deep enough to not freeze would work or would they have to be as deep as china not to crack Thanks for your thoughts



http://www.jmeagle.com/



BIG

 

[mwilson]

Anyone have any experience with this type of product. FIL/Son are going to dig several deep ponds or tanks on their property to water cattle. The water pump that I have posted on here a few months ago will supply the water to the ponds or tanks via water lines. We were wondering if these buried deep enough to not freeze would work or would they have to be as deep as china not to crack Thanks for your thoughts



http://www.jmeagle.com/



BIG

Can they put a bit of pitch to the whole system so that it would self drain when opened up???



Mike.

 

[Slow Six]

When I owned my underground sprnikler business winterizing was a big part of the business. Since I had the large compressor people with shallow pasture water lines would have me blow the lines out in the late fall.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Can they put a bit of pitch to the whole system so that it would self drain when opened up???



Mike.

Yes that was the best part of the plan was that its not a steep angle but still a drop from one pond to another. If they go into tanks im sure that it would have to be pumped up to the top of the tank, and when full then close a valve to stop the back flow from tank to pipe but could still be drained off of the pipe to prevent freeze up. As with most of their plans around the homes im the last to be included in the planing stage and the first one to do the work and take the blame if it doesn't quite work the way THEY HOPED IT WOULD.



My main concern was that the pipe could take the cold, I use to deliver this pipe to So Ca and AZ, New Mexico but they were used as sewer pipe I think (it was a long time ago) and it was buried a bunch deeper than what this will be. The ground in MT in winter is like concrete 4ft deep at least where we live.

 

[Jim W]

Big, You may want to look into PEX type of water line. A plumber may be able to answer your questions better.

I do use a piece of plastic 4" pipe in the winter for my sump pump (sewer line pipe). The sump will run in the winter if we have winter rains which we do sometimes. The pipe will not freeze with water in it but it is on a 3 to 1 slop.

PEX is an acronym for cross-linked polyethylene. The "PE" refers to the raw material used to make PEX (Polyethylene), and the "X" refers to the cross-linking of the polyethylene across its molecular chains. The molecular chains are linked into a three-dimensional network that makes PEX remarkably durable within a wide range of temperatures, pressures and chemicals.
•Flexible, installed with fewer fittings than rigid plumbing systems. A good choice for re-piping and for new homes. Works well for corrosive water conditions.
•It can stretch to accommodate the expansion of freezing water and then return to its original size when water thaws. Although it is highly freeze-resistant, no material is freeze-break proof.

Jim W.

 

[JR]

I think slow six hit the nail on the head with blowing the lines down for winter, BIG. In 2006 we were contracted to fabricate a water treatment facility at a superfund site. The sediment was pumped from the river over 3 miles up to the water treatment plant via 18" hdpe (high density polyethylene) pipe. They ran the water plant for 2 full summers and shut down during the winter because of the freezing weather. The company that brought in the hdpe pipe and installed it assured the GC that the pipe would withstand any freezing water in the line. They were wrong. There was about 100 feet of grade over the 3+ miles so the entire line wasnt full but nearly every place there was a belly in the pipe it swelled and split. The following winter the GC brought us in to blow the lines down for the winter, and they had no issues after that. If youve got a gas powered compressor (I think I remember you mentioning one) it would be very easy to install a tee and a valve and blow the line back before the freezing weather comes.

 

[BIGNASTY]

We went to the manufactures yard that has this and they gave their idea and recommendations as to what product that they would use. The key will be not getting it blow frost line in ground because that would be very deep in our use in MT. So their suggestion was to make sure that it could be drained at least enough so that if it did freeze the water inside the pipe that it would have enough room to expand and not break the pipe. They thought that with the distance of the pipe and the size that was purchased that there would be no problems. The main concern of the company was again to drain the water and how it was buried make sure that it was deep enough as not to be a CRUSH concern and how the bed that the pipe was laying on was prepared no rock should be in contact and a sand bed and surround of the pipe then covered should be best. I dont know how many times that anything would actually be ran over the pipe, I guess 1 time if not done right would be enough but this is going thru a grass pasture land that will be naturally renewed by moving the cattle to prevent them from destroying the pasture grass. Talking to the family members that have seen the water pump and the size of the pipe we are sure that the pump will MORE than deliver the water even if we did bury it a little deeper and have to put some drain valves in the system



http://www.jmeagle.com/products/irrigation_plumbing/EagleLocIPS.html



My other concern was that if they dig ponds for water that all they would be doing is creating a ice skating rink for the cattle in the winter and that would be more work breaking ice for them to drink, if possible to break the ice at all, it gets pretty cold. I have been looking into IN GROUND water tanks for water storage. I have taken thermometers that measure ground temp (dont ask where I got them to use) in our basement of our house the slab temp never gets to much colder that 60* so that wasn't good enough for me because of the radiant heat of the house. I did the same thing at the barn just outside of it actually and buried the temp probe to a depth of 5 feet (post hole digger is a God send for the dig ) the temp low was still above freezing so I think that with some insulation and bury the tank deep enough that it would prevent it from freezing and a pump could be used to pump water into heated/super insulated stock tanks Looks like maybe some more of my permanent magnet alternators wind generators and battery for the power to run the heaters will need to be made it dont take much heat to keep it from freezing my system at our house works fine and mine are ABOVE GROUND.



Thanks for ALL your suggestions

BIG/family