Future DPF Delete question.

[EricBu12]

Hey guys. . my 09 is still in warranty right now and last december, I had a DPF Plug up at 38K miles. . When I do the Smog check and all they do is hook up the ODB Cord, is there a way to do a DPF Delete but leave the EGR on? and still pass smog or would they do a visual on the DPF?. . might have to core it out?.



Was planning on buying an extended warranty after the 5yr 100K but if there is a way to delete the DPF and pass the smog as the machine just checks that the EGR is working, that might be better. I like the benefit in the winter of the EGR heating up the water Jacket so you get warm air faster. . only good I see it doing...

 

[CBlack]

I know you can unplug the EGR without it causing a problem and then plug it back in to do the smog. I did it on mine until I took care of everything the proper way with a tuner.

 

[RVTRKN]

They are looking for trouble codes, if none present, you pass the OBD test. A visual only for smog equipment and looking for excessive smoke. I caught a break on my C&C, because of the build date, being and a C&C just before the 07. 5, the smog tech kept telling me the California Smog computer was telling him it was a 5. 9.

 

[Jim W]

Eric,
You may have been too late to do the delete solution on your truck now. The EPA has cracked down on the programmer companies such as H&S or Mad's Electronics (Smarty). Edge was fine over $500K if my memory severs me right because of the DPF delete ability they advertise.

Do a search on hear for programmers in the 6. 7L site and the 4th generation site several of us have provided the information about this.

If you want some more information on what to do PM me and I will answer your questions.

Jim W.

 

[ceomall]

It would appear some are buying the Smarty with the on road tune and then getting the ME tune online from other sources. I have not done this, but it appears to be happening.

 

[AHarris]

Methinks its better just to leave it original and maintain it properly, which includes lots of highway driving. If you're using the truck as a city commuter, its time to think about getting a Honda or a Toyota... or a Hemi, These 6. 7 trucks are NOT made for city commutes. And the emission testing stations are getting much smarter about checking for aftermarket trickery since the proliferation of deleted 6. 7s, Fords and Chevs.

Unless you live in a place where emissions testing is not even on the horizon (such as where I live), you're playing Russian Roulette. Oh! And GOOD LUCK trading it in or selling it!

Is 2 or 3 mpgs and extended oil change intervals really worth it?? Not to me. If I wanted fuel economy I'd be driving a Prius. And changing my truck oil every 5K works fine. At the cost of deletes, it would take 10 years to pay it back. Add in EPA fines and lost retail value, your're taking more like 30 years.

I get 17-19 on the highway... not bad for a three and a half ton truck and about the same mileage I used to get on my old Jeep Grand Cherokee (about half the weight and a quarter of the capability).

You'd probably get more return on your investment reselling used toilet paper rolls. :-laf

 

[EricBu12]

As I stated before, I am not caring about the mileage. Although I do wish it was higher... I was just looking to delete the Dpf just to have that troublesome item gone.

Looking at the new 2013 that has the Urea and different emissions which make for less soot load and longer oil change. If that is true, seems like the Dpf will last longer. . keeping looking. .

 

[Jim W]

Unless you live in a place where emissions testing is not even on the horizon (such as where I live), you're playing Russian Roulette. Oh! And GOOD LUCK trading it in or selling it!

I get 17-19 on the highway... not bad for a three and a half ton truck and about the same mileage I used to get on my old Jeep Grand Cherokee (about half the weight and a quarter of the capability).

Al; why do you say that you cannot trade the vehicle in after you have delete the vehicle. I plan on trading in my truck sometime in the far future. All I will do is re-install the DPF and other filters and reengage the EGR, then the truck will be just like a stock truck is. Not everyone throw away their deleted hardware. In fact my insurance rates should go down since I am storing and locking up that expensive DPF which some people are steeling now.

My deleted truck on two occasions has reached the 20 MPG on the highway, hand calculated. I normally tow my 5er when I am on the highway so most of my recorded fuel mileage is under towing conditions. My city/town driving is between 13 and 15 MPG with winter fuel mostly being around 13 MPG, hand calculated. So I am very happy with the way my truck is now.
Jim W.

 

[AHarris]

Al; why do you say that you cannot trade the vehicle in after you have delete the vehicle. I plan on trading in my truck sometime in the far future. All I will do is re-install the DPF and other filters and reengage the EGR, then the truck will be just like a stock truck is. Not everyone throw away their deleted hardware. In fact my insurance rates should go down since I am storing and locking up that expensive DPF which some people are steeling now.

What about emissions testing? Seems a heck of a lot of work to reinstall all that crap every year to go through emissions. I believe the ECM stores a history that could show if the truck has had an aftermarket tuner on it... so if you have to go in for warranty work and they discover that then you just became your own warranty station. Big gamble with a $15,000 motor.

My normal summer mileage HAND CALCULATED comes out to 17-18MPG. Towing my 9,000# camper, about 12 MPG hand calculated. Best mileage ever was 18. 6 hand calculated on a long unloaded highway trip while the worst was 10. 5 pulling our camper through very hilly country against a strong headwind, loaded for bear.

If you're a mechanic, your truck has over 100K and is out of the power-train warranty, and you have room to store all that crap than it's probably not that big of a deal and worth the hassle. For the rest of us, probably not a great plan. I think the math shows that it would take YEARS to recoup the cost of the delete kit and the expensive tuner based on a couple more MPGs... not to mention the warranty risk.

IMHO it's penny wise and dollar foolish. To me the smart money says to drive it the way the engineers designed and tested it. They know a crapload more about how this machinery works than I do. That's just me.

 

[Jim W]

What about emissions testing? Seems a heck of a lot of work to reinstall all that crap every year to go through emissions. I believe the ECM stores a history that could show if the truck has had an aftermarket tuner on it... so if you have to go in for warranty work and they discover that then you just became your own warranty station. Big gamble with a $15,000 motor.

My normal summer mileage HAND CALCULATED comes out to 17-18MPG. Towing my 9,000# camper, about 12 MPG hand calculated. Best mileage ever was 18. 6 hand calculated on a long unloaded highway trip while the worst was 10. 5 pulling our camper through very hilly country against a strong headwind, loaded for bear.

If you're a mechanic, your truck has over 100K and is out of the power-train warranty, and you have room to store all that crap than it's probably not that big of a deal and worth the hassle. For the rest of us, probably not a great plan. I think the math shows that it would take YEARS to recoup the cost of the delete kit and the expensive tuner based on a couple more MPGs... not to mention the warranty risk.

IMHO it's penny wise and dollar foolish. To me the smart money says to drive it the way the engineers designed and tested it. They know a crapload more about how this machinery works than I do. That's just me.

AL,
What Emission testing???

The only warranty issues I have had were with the emission equipment. I had four issues and two recalls on the truck within the first year and half of ownership. That was why I decided on deleting the emission equipment I have been trouble free since then. The last warranty work was done at 20,542 miles I now have 64,000 + miles on the truck. I tend not to drive the truck as much now since my wife got a TDI VW and we use this for running around. The truck is now mainly used to tow the 5er and hauling items in the bed.

I am not trying to recover the cost, but I have less soot in the oil (oil analysis provide information on soot levels) and the oil changes are now every 7,500 miles or 6 months whichever comes first.
I am also a retired engineer from Cat who did deal with Tier I, Tier II, Tier III and towards the end right before retirement Tier IV emission components on Cat equipment.

And I did decide on being my own warranty station as soon as I did the deletes.

Jim W.

 

[AHarris]

AL,
What Emission testing???

The only warranty issues I have had were with the emission equipment. I had four issues and two recalls on the truck within the first year and half of ownership. That was why I decided on deleting the emission equipment I have been trouble free since then. The last warranty work was done at 20,542 miles I now have 64,000 + miles on the truck. I tend not to drive the truck as much now since my wife got a TDI VW and we use this for running around. The truck is now mainly used to tow the 5er and hauling items in the bed.

I am not trying to recover the cost, but I have less soot in the oil (oil analysis provide information on soot levels) and the oil changes are now every 7,500 miles or 6 months whichever comes first.
I am also a retired engineer from Cat who did deal with Tier I, Tier II, Tier III and towards the end right before retirement Tier IV emission components on Cat equipment.

And I did decide on being my own warranty station as soon as I did the deletes.

Jim W.

Congrats on your VW TDI... great car but keep an eye on that HPFP! This is a common issue with TDIs and mine grenaded at 41K. Thankfully, VW covered the $8,500 repair cost under warranty. Car has been perfect ever since.

In your case the delete made sense. But with the EPA cracking down on tuners, how long are the companies supporting those is going to exist?

You and I live in areas where emissions testing is not an issue. But what about those who live in cities (SE Wisconsin has emissions testing in 6 counties), Northeast, or in the Peoples' Republic of Kalifornia?

 

[RDBuck]

I'd like to add another reason for the delete option- plowing snow. These trucks are sold with a plow option so the argument of intended use does'nt hold. It is not uncommon to run for 25+ hrs. with never shutting down. We plow a 12 mile route of short roads, constant "drive" to "reverse", start and stop. If the DPF system is left in place it cannot regenerate successfully because every start and stop ends the cycle. I would like to know why the engineers never considered this. In any case the fuel consumption between a diesel and gas truck (2500's) on the same route during the same storm following each other is about 50% less for the diesel. Plus the power pushing 2' of wet snow uphill can't be matched with a gas engine. We ended up totally deleting everything and have not had any problem since other than spending 4-5hrs putting all the items back on each year to pass inspection. (We are getting pretty good at this- stainless exhaust and band- clamps make it easy. )

 

[GHedger]

Here's my two cents on deleting a truck. My C/C with 65000 miles and only about 8 months of warranty left, had the turbo the EGR and the DPF all replaced under warranty (the DPF was last to be replaced). I started to think about the warranty reaching its end and who was gonna pay for these parts the next 65000 miles. That answer is easy- it was gonna be me! Since I was gonna become my own warranty station, I decided that for around $1000. 00 I was going to eliminate the chance of spending thousands of dollars to replace emission equipment or a turbo that is sooted up. Sure the risks are there by deleting but if it happens I will be in a long line with others who are tired of wondering if there truck is gonna run today or when will it be down because the DPF is plugged or the EGR is INOP. Yea its great that I picked up around 50 miles to the tank, but that is just an added bonus in my eyes. When it comes time to sell, I will have a new DPF that will be re installed on the truck or the buyer can leave it lay on there shop floor. Again just my 2cents.

 

[Sticks]

What about emissions testing? Seems a heck of a lot of work to reinstall all that crap every year to go through emissions. I believe the ECM stores a history that could show if the truck has had an aftermarket tuner on it... so if you have to go in for warranty work and they discover that then you just became your own warranty station. Big gamble with a $15,000 motor.

My normal summer mileage HAND CALCULATED comes out to 17-18MPG. Towing my 9,000# camper, about 12 MPG hand calculated. Best mileage ever was 18. 6 hand calculated on a long unloaded highway trip while the worst was 10. 5 pulling our camper through very hilly country against a strong headwind, loaded for bear.

If you're a mechanic, your truck has over 100K and is out of the power-train warranty, and you have room to store all that crap than it's probably not that big of a deal and worth the hassle. For the rest of us, probably not a great plan. I think the math shows that it would take YEARS to recoup the cost of the delete kit and the expensive tuner based on a couple more MPGs... not to mention the warranty risk.

IMHO it's penny wise and dollar foolish. To me the smart money says to drive it the way the engineers designed and tested it. They know a crapload more about how this machinery works than I do. That's just me.

Back in the day we did it because we could, and doubling the output of the engine plus a gain in MPG as a bonus.

My lowly 2002 gets better mileage and opacity test results (the only emissions currently in CO for Diesels) now than it did when it was bone stock.

 

[Bob4x4]

Delete or not to delete is a choice best left to the owner. He or she should be aware of all the pros and cons and with discussions like this it should help making the choice easier.
Eric,since you don't do your own work you should seek out a shop that will be around in 5 years that will work on a deleted truck. Southern Utah is covered in hot rod diesel shops-not sure about your neck of the woods.

 

[CBlack]

What about emissions testing? Seems a heck of a lot of work to reinstall all that crap every year to go through emissions. I believe the ECM stores a history that could show if the truck has had an aftermarket tuner on it... so if you have to go in for warranty work and they discover that then you just became your own warranty station. Big gamble with a $15,000 motor.

My normal summer mileage HAND CALCULATED comes out to 17-18MPG. Towing my 9,000# camper, about 12 MPG hand calculated. Best mileage ever was 18. 6 hand calculated on a long unloaded highway trip while the worst was 10. 5 pulling our camper through very hilly country against a strong headwind, loaded for bear.

If you're a mechanic, your truck has over 100K and is out of the power-train warranty, and you have room to store all that crap than it's probably not that big of a deal and worth the hassle. For the rest of us, probably not a great plan. I think the math shows that it would take YEARS to recoup the cost of the delete kit and the expensive tuner based on a couple more MPGs... not to mention the warranty risk.

IMHO it's penny wise and dollar foolish. To me the smart money says to drive it the way the engineers designed and tested it. They know a crapload more about how this machinery works than I do. That's just me.

Most people I've talked to have seen upwards of 4-6 mpg after deleting.

And I'm willing to be they didn't design the engine to work with the emissions crap. They designed the emissions crap to work with the engine. I know for a fact they chose the smallest turbo possible that would still work just due to make it restrictive enough to make the EGR work properly.

A co-worker of mine went through 3 turbos and many other parts due to the emissions crap.

It's proven time and again that the 6. 7, even in stock form, run so much better without the addons.

 

[Jim W]

Most people I've talked to have seen upwards of 4-6 mpg after deleting.

Not that I want to start a war but as the Indians use to say: WHITE MAN SPEAKS WITH FORK TONGUE!



Asked them to provide hand calculated date over a year’s time from before delete to after delete.



I am deleted and have been now for almost 4 full years and I have a spread sheet that calculates my fuel mileage and cost for every fill-up for my 08 Mega Cab since new. My first year fuel mileage average was 11. 59 MPG stock truck, the next year was 13. 11 MPG stock/deleted, the third year was 14. 17 MPG fully deleted, my fourth year was 13. 83 MPG and this year so far is 14. 99 MPG. These figures reflect winter driving, summer driving and towing a 5er so that is why I use a yearly average. I could quote just one high number but that is not true picture for a year with my truck.



Jim W.

 

[CBlack]

I bought my truck used. Hand calculated I was getting 16. 4mpg highway. I unplugged the EGR valve on the intake side and it went up to 18. 5mpg, again hand calculated.

I then removed everything else and if I keep my foot out of it I get 20. 5mpg hand calculated.

The others that I've talked to have experienced the exact same thing. Though most of them were seeing even less than 16. 4mpg pre-d.

 

[HBarlow]

The EPA is coming. The obama regime is just getting wound up for another term. I expect to see increased inspections being forced down on states under threat of withholding federal transportation dollars, even in states like Texas which do not support his policies.

 

[rscurtis]

Are you referring to a third term, Harvey? Say it isn't so!