Future DPF Delete question.

[HBarlow]

Curtis,

Yes, sadly I fear nobama and the communists and have since I first learned about nobama. He and the communists are entirely capable of overturning or ignoring the 22nd Amendment to the US Constitution or simply declaring martial law and remaining in office.

If a government does not respect and follow the US Constitution what restrains its illegal and immoral use of power?

 

[AHarris]

Curtis,

Yes, sadly I fear nobama and the communists and have since I first learned about nobama. He and the communists are entirely capable of overturning or ignoring the 22nd Amendment to the US Constitution or simply declaring martial law and remaining in office.

If a government does not respect and follow the US Constitution what restrains its illegal and immoral use of power?

Hey Seaman Barlow: this isn't the political forum.

 

[BruteForce]

In Utah, they will do a full OBDII test and they will also perform a visual inspection. To pass (I know, I just did this in Jan), you will need to reinstall your emissions components, then drive your truck for about 2 weeks for the ECM to clear - before getting your emissions test performed.

 

[BruteForce]

Most people I've talked to have seen upwards of 4-6 mpg after deleting.

Wow! I got maybe 1-2mpg post delete. I'm curious if your truck is deleted or if you're just passing along some mis-information??

 

[CBlack]

I bought my truck used. Hand calculated I was getting 16. 4mpg highway. I unplugged the EGR valve on the intake side and it went up to 18. 5mpg, again hand calculated.

I then removed everything else and if I keep my foot out of it I get 20. 5mpg hand calculated.

The others that I've talked to have experienced the exact same thing. Though most of them were seeing even less than 16. 4mpg pre-d.

Wow! I got maybe 1-2mpg post delete. I'm curious if your truck is deleted or if you're just passing along some mis-information??

Try reading all of my posts, champ.

 

[EricBu12]

a guy came over with a '12 dually and he has the EGR unplugged, has the DPF off, and has that CNG he posted he has on it. . he gets around 26 mpg + the cost of the CNG. but the dash meter says 26 average for that side alone.

He says for testing, all he does is reinstall the DPF and plug the EGR in. the CNG can stay on or come off either way.

 

[Bob4x4]

Most people I've talked to have seen upwards of 4-6 mpg after deleting.

And I'm willing to be they didn't design the engine to work with the emissions crap. They designed the emissions crap to work with the engine. I know for a fact they chose the smallest turbo possible that would still work just due to make it restrictive enough to make the EGR work properly.

A co-worker of mine went through 3 turbos and many other parts due to the emissions crap.

It's proven time and again that the 6. 7, even in stock form, run so much better without the addons.

Something else was going on to go through 3 turbos. Since 07 I have only changed out a handful of turbos

 

[RonD]

Sorry I don't buy the 26 mpg, a 9000 pound truck gets 26 mpg,? that is wishful thinking

a guy came over with a '12 dually and he has the EGR unplugged, has the DPF off, and has that CNG he posted he has on it. . he gets around 26 mpg + the cost of the CNG. but the dash meter says 26 average for that side alone.

He says for testing, all he does is reinstall the DPF and plug the EGR in. the CNG can stay on or come off either way.

 

[CBlack]

Something else was going on to go through 3 turbos. Since 07 I have only changed out a handful of turbos

According to him, that's what the stealership told him was the problem.

I know of a few other people who have gone through at least 2 turbos due to the emissions equipment. Ram has since changed the programming and any issues are few and far between.

 

[Bob4x4]

According to him, that's what the stealership told him was the problem.

I know of a few other people who have gone through at least 2 turbos due to the emissions equipment. Ram has since changed the programming and any issues are few and far between.

Pm me the last 8 of his vin I would like to see the history
Thanks

 

[RDBuck]

To add a little more to my earlier post about a full delete for plowing snow. My cost for the programmer and full stainless exhaust system with two small mufflers was around $1200. Each year it takes about 6-8hrs total to put the system back on for inspection and take it all off again. If you keep a truck for a long time as I do- 10 yrs on average- I figure the initial cost of the delete will be more than recovered by not having to replace the expensive original system especially in the Northeast with the heavy use of salt on the highways. MPG savings for me seems to be around 2-3 at best. I save about 2 oil changes a year. The real payback is that I can use the truck the way I want/need to use it. In real terms you should not have to do any of this in order to use a $40,000 truck for work without having to drive 25 needless extra miles every couple days to complete a "regenerate" cycle.

 

[HBarlow]

Not that I want to start a war but as the Indians use to say: WHITE MAN SPEAKS WITH FORK TONGUE!

Asked them to provide hand calculated date over a year’s time from before delete to after delete.

I am deleted and have been now for almost 4 full years and I have a spread sheet that calculates my fuel mileage and cost for every fill-up for my 08 Mega Cab since new. My first year fuel mileage average was 11. 59 MPG stock truck, the next year was 13. 11 MPG stock/deleted, the third year was 14. 17 MPG fully deleted, my fourth year was 13. 83 MPG and this year so far is 14. 99 MPG. These figures reflect winter driving, summer driving and towing a 5er so that is why I use a yearly average. I could quote just one high number but that is not true picture for a year with my truck.

Jim W.

Most of the magical high fuel mileage claims we read are inflated or based on rare unique driving conditions not typical of ordinary results everyone could expect to see.

I believe Jim's results. He has recorded details of every fuel purchase since his truck was purchased and has posted them on a number of occasions.

An original low output 12 valve would not routinely deliver 26 mpg. Claims of a 6. 7 4x4, a heavier truck, delivering 26 mpg are just not believable.

 

[rscurtis]

[QOTE=RonD;2344102]Sorry I don't buy the 26 mpg, a 9000 pound truck gets 26 mpg,? that is wishful thinking[/QUOTE]



The truck really is getting 26 MPG on diesel fuel- what's not figured in at this point is the amount of NG used as a make-up fuel. The actual mileage when figuring in the BTU per gallon equivalent of NG will actually be less than running on pure diesel, but the cost variance of the NG more than offsets the difference.

 

[RustyJC]

Our company builds large industrial engines, including dual-fuel turbocharged 4-cycle engines primarily used for power generation (electrical generator drive service. ) These engines are able to switch back and forth between natural gas with diesel pilot injection and straight diesel under full load/full speed conditions. In dual fuel mode, the engines operate on ~96% methane (natural gas) and ~4% diesel; this is only possible because the engines have air/fuel ratio controls and, when in dual fuel mode, control (throttle) the air to optimize air/fuel ratios with the methane primary fuel - this is done via butterfly valves in the air manifolds controlled by pneumatic or electronic actuators. At that point, the engines are operating as Otto (not Diesel) cycle engines - the diesel fuel is used only to ignite the air/natural gas mixture.



Under full diesel operation, the natural gas supply is shut off, the air butterflies go to the full open position, the A/F ratio controls are effectively disabled and the engine operates on the Diesel cycle with the diesel fuel racks taking control.



In dual fuel (gas/diesel) mode, these engines typically run at a best fuel rate of ~6300 BTU/BHP-hour.



In straight diesel mode, the best fuel rate is ~6100 BTU/BHP-hour.



My point is that the total BTU requirement is very close to the same (there ain't no free lunch), and actual fuel rates are slightly better on straight diesel than in gas/diesel mode.



In dual fuel mode, since only 4% of the total BTU is supplied by diesel, the apparent fuel mileage (looking only at diesel and putting it in Ram truck terms) would jump from, let's say, 15 MPG to over 300 MPG. That, of course, is meaningless - one must look at total BTUs consumed.



Rusty

 

[HBarlow]

Our company builds large industrial engines, including dual-fuel turbocharged 4-cycle engines primarily used for power generation (electrical generator drive service. ) These engines are able to switch back and forth between natural gas with diesel pilot injection and straight diesel under full load/full speed conditions. In dual fuel mode, the engines operate on ~96% methane (natural gas) and ~4% diesel; this is only possible because the engines have air/fuel ratio controls and, when in dual fuel mode, control (throttle) the air to optimize air/fuel ratios with the methane primary fuel - this is done via butterfly valves in the air manifolds controlled by pneumatic or electronic actuators. At that point, the engines are operating as Otto (not Diesel) cycle engines - the diesel fuel is used only to ignite the air/natural gas mixture.

Under full diesel operation, the natural gas supply is shut off, the air butterflies go to the full open position, the A/F ratio controls are effectively disabled and the engine operates on the Diesel cycle with the diesel fuel racks taking control.

In dual fuel (gas/diesel) mode, these engines typically run at a best fuel rate of ~6300 BTU/BHP-hour.

In straight diesel mode, the best fuel rate is ~6100 BTU/BHP-hour.

My point is that the total BTU requirement is very close to the same (there ain't no free lunch), and actual fuel rates are slightly better on straight diesel than in gas/diesel mode.

In dual fuel mode, since only 4% of the total BTU is supplied by diesel, the apparent fuel mileage (looking only at diesel and putting it in Ram truck terms) would jump from, let's say, 15 MPG to over 300 MPG. That, of course, is meaningless - one must look at total BTUs consumed.

Rusty

Rusty,

Carry that out to a conclusion for the non-engineers in the audience.

 

[AHarris]

Rusty,

Carry that out to a conclusion for the non-engineers in the audience.

From a non-engineer who read the post. There is no free lunch, the dual fuel takes advantage of the much cheaper natural gas and diesel is a more efficient fuel. At the end of the day, this saves money over just running a straight diesel engine.

 

[RustyJC]

Rusty,



Carry that out to a conclusion for the non-engineers in the audience.

For a given engine design operating under given conditions, it takes X BTU to make 1 BHP for 1 hour. It doesn't matter if the BTU (heat energy) is coming from diesel fuel or natural gas or a mixture of both. To analyze fuel rate, though, one must look at ALL the fuels that are being consumed and determine the number of BTUs provided by each.



That's the greatly oversimplified jist of the previous post.



Rusty



P. S. - A municipal power plant will select the operating mode to take advantage of the cheapest fuel (normally natural gas), but if natural gas is curtailed (often a part of their contract from their supplier), they will operate on straight diesel until natural gas is again available. By the way, the engines start up and shut down in straight diesel mode.

 

[RVTRKN]

To simplify it. You get more BTU from the diesel then NG, but NG is cheaper even though you get less BTU from it and it takes more to obtain the same BHP power.

 

[RustyJC]

In our case, the reason for the slightly worse fuel rate in dual fuel mode is because the engine is operating as an Otto cycle engine. That is, the natural gas is mixed with the air in the cylinder head intake ports before it is introduced into the cylinder, and the natural gas/air mixture is ignited by a timed ignition source (in this case, a very small shot of diesel injected into the cylinder). In effect, just like a spark gasoline engine. Therefore, one has to control the air/fuel ratio to prevent detonation or misfire, and this throttling of the intake (just like the throttle blades in a gasoline engine) increases pumping losses and reduces efficiency compared to an unthrottled Diesel cycle engine.



This isn't a problem when you're only running 40% or 50% of the BTU requirements as natural gas fogged into the intake. The air/fuel mixture is too lean to autoignite or detonate, so the engine still operates on the Diesel cycle. A 96% natural gas mixture is a whole other story and has to be treated quite differently.



Rusty