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Goose Box hitch

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Old tow truck upgrades.

Reese hitch function

Yep, they make a big deal out of the fact that Lippert will warrant its use with their frames. Three guesses as to why:



Lippert Components Inc. , a subsidiary of Drew Industries Inc. and a leading supplier of components for the RV industry, announced today (Aug. 16) that it has been designated the exclusive supplier of Cequent Performance Products' innovative new patent pending Reese “Goose Box” adaptor for gooseneck hitches.



Full article HERE. Money talks louder than sound engineering principles.



Rusty
 
If this general design has been an issue with frame manufacturers why would this design be any different. Lippert very well could be beefing up their new construction frames which would better conform to a conversion that may be OK.
 
I couldn't get the link to work, just got the general merchandise page, so I did the search under Goose Box and it came up. What a weak box, it looks to be stamped steel with only minimal welding, it appears to me that the first one I see on the road, and you will see a lot of em, they will be twisting as the trucks go over rough roads. And the roads here in SoCal, especially Los Angeles, will even tear up quality frames. They will match them to the Lippert suspension systems on the cheaper RV's, you can be assured of that.
 
Hey, how you doing CUMMINZ. :)



More than likely cheapen the suspensions or/and to try and protect the already weak suspensions that fail as they leave the lots. OK, a little exaggerated. ;)
 
If the new gooseneck box is cheaply built with thin sheet metal it will fit right in with the frames and running gear Lippert supplies to some RV manufacturers.
 
Harvey... do you know if Lippert builds different qualities of frames for different body builders??

Jim,

Around 2006 NuWa, struggling to remain profitable in a very competitive RV market flirted briefly with Lippert frames under their least expensive line, the HH II and a few Discover America trailers identified as "three digit models" such as 327, 329. They continued to buy frames from Young's Welding, their local fabrication shop and long time frame supplier for half the DA line and all Champagnes, their premier line.

I had the opportunity on more than one occasion to walk around and inspect bare rolling frames from Youngs and from Lippert in their storage yard on a weekend when no one was around. The difference in designed strength, construction methods, materials, and finish painting was dramatic. Youngs frames were robust and powder coated. Heavier metal, more reinforced members, and better finish. Lipperts were sparse and rough painted. An engineering degree was not required to detect the difference in quality.

My opinion turned out to be accurate over the next several years. There were some weld failures around suspension framing and lots of running gear failures. NuWa stopped sourcing frames from Lippert after the quality control issues became clear but stood behind their warranties. There were some unhappy owners and a few trailers traded in for different models.

During that period NuWa regional sales managers and spokesmen continually repeated the company mantra that "Lippert frames were built to NuWa specs" and claimed that Youngs Welding could not keep up with their demand. I assume the Lippert design specs were true but there was clearly a business reason for sourcing some from Lippert. I think it was cost savings not supply issues.

In my opinion Lippert builds lower quality frames using marginally skilled welders and lighter gauge steel and fewer frame members but they probably build what the RV manufacturer wants. Every RV manufacturer surely has one or more engineers on their payroll who specify frame requirements. Lippert and the RV manufacturer probably agree on design capacity and cost. Lippert axles, hubs, brakes, and bearings are usually sourced from sources other than Dexter and other quality US manufacturers. I believe they use ChiComm running gear. Perhaps some of their frames are equipped with Dexter running gear. The frame buyer probably decides.

We've read some failure reports here in TDR. One member several years ago wrote an account of pulling his Forest River brand trailer with Lippert frame into a state park RV parking area. One of his axles separated from the frame on one side and swung around under the trailer. The spring shackle welds failed at the attachment point on the frame. He provided photographs and discussion. I think it was a Cardinal brand but don't remember. A search should turn up his long thread. Ultimately I think the manufacturer repaired it but he was upset and no longer had much love for the brand.

Many owners continue to defend Lippert products. Each to his own.

Personally I would not buy their frames and running gear.

Credit for my initial understanding of the issue goes to my good friend Bill Stockard. Bill had owned HitchHiker trailers back in the early '90s and knew far more than I did about them. When I became interested in a new fifthwheel in 2006 I either asked Bill about HitchHiker trailers or Bill suggested I consider HitchHikers. I don't remember which. Bill knew and warned me that Youngs had been the quality frame supplier for NuWa trailers since the beginning but NuWa had begun sourcing some frames from Lippert. I investigated and learned I didn't want a unit with Lippert frame and running gear.

My HitchHiker uses a quality powder coated Youngs frame and has been very well built and reliable.

That's my opinion on the subject. You can do your homework and decide for yourself. You know more than most of us about trailer suspension, brakes, bearings, etc.
 
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If the new gooseneck box is cheaply built with thin sheet metal it will fit right in with the frames and running gear Lippert supplies to some RV manufacturers.
HB, I thought your were a tried and true Reese fan. don't you have a Reese hitch in your rig? What gets me is that non of you guys who are responding to this thread have actually seen one of these hitches, but you seem to have all kinds of negative opinions about it. What the real problem is that you do not believe that a 5er can be pulled with a goose ball. It all looks like hypocrisy to me. Either you like Reese or you don't. I have nothing to urge here. I don't care one way or the other, but please, be honest enough to resurve your critique until you've at least seen one. I know what you think of Lippert frames, but just because they approved the Reese hitch does not condem it. Give it a fare shake.
DClark
 
It has nothing to do about a like or dislike of Reese hitches, as far as I'm concerned. It's the fact that the attachment point between the trailer and truck is moved down ~2 feet. That's like putting a 2 foot cheater bar on the pinbox and its attachment to the frame. All the torque forces going into the pinbox are amplified as compared to a conventional 5th wheel hitch, and 5th wheel frames are not generally designed for these higher forces. It doesn't matter whether it's a gooseneck adapter or this goose box, the geometry and forces are the same.

Rusty
 
A rigid connection that cannot rotate is not a "cheater bar". If Gooseneck adapter forces were significantly greater on the RV kingpin/frame they would not be sold (manufactured by many vendors), purchased or used by so many RVers. And some may reduce forces as in the example of the Star Performance Adapter which includes a glider motion. I've towed my nearly 13K Fiver with it since early 2008.
 
HB, I thought your were a tried and true Reese fan. don't you have a Reese hitch in your rig? What gets me is that non of you guys who are responding to this thread have actually seen one of these hitches, but you seem to have all kinds of negative opinions about it. What the real problem is that you do not believe that a 5er can be pulled with a goose ball. It all looks like hypocrisy to me. Either you like Reese or you don't. I have nothing to urge here. I don't care one way or the other, but please, be honest enough to resurve your critique until you've at least seen one. I know what you think of Lippert frames, but just because they approved the Reese hitch does not condem it. Give it a fare shake.
DClark

Yes, I use and recommend a Reese hitch which I believe is the oldest manufacturer of towing hitches in America and probably has more hitches in service than any other manufacturer.

I don't know why I would need to see a Reese goosebox to have an opinion. I'm confident the Reese product is as good as my Reese 20k hitch. It's the cheaply built Lippert frame they want to attach it to that I would not own or trust.

The fact that Lippert is now an authorized dealer for Reese gooseneck adapter hitches has no bearing on my opinion of Lippert frames.

When I purchased the '08 C&C truck in my signature and installed a CM bed with a built in recessed gooseneck pocket and ball I thought it would be handy to use the gooseneck and avoid lifting the Reese fifthwheel off and on the flatbed again every time I wanted to change from hauling large items on the bed to pulling a trailer. I called and asked NuWa's engineer if I could do that. He said they had no objection to my converting my HitchHiker LK32 DA trailer with Youngs frame to a gooseneck but felt that the Demco Glide-Ride pin box assembly was not designed for the additional stresses created by a gooseneck lever arm and they would not authorize it.

Will a fifthwheel manufacturer who builds their trailers on a Lippert frame authorize the installation and stand behind their warranty if the owner converts to a goosebox or fiver to gooseneck adapter? That is the question that should be asked and answered in writing.
 
A rigid connection that cannot rotate is not a "cheater bar". If Gooseneck adapter forces were significantly greater on the RV kingpin/frame they would not be sold (manufactured by many vendors), purchased or used by so many RVers. And some may reduce forces as in the example of the Star Performance Adapter which includes a glider motion. I've towed my nearly 13K Fiver with it since early 2008.

A force acting through a moment arm (which this is) produces what? TORQUE. 5th wheel pinboxes are not engineered to handle large torques - they handle shear forces (the 5th wheel load plate stops any rotation). That's why gooseneck trailers have all the gusseting in the crown and 5th wheels don't. And, yes, before you ask, I'm an engineer.

5th wheels have been damaged by gooseneck adapters - the heavier the 5th wheels, the greater the forces that are applied to the pinbox and frame. You've been lucky this far; others, especially with rigid adapters, haven't been. There are many products in the marketplace that shouldn't be. To say that a product's presence in the market validates its design is sort of like saying that anything on the internet has to be true.

Rusty
 
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Anyone who thinks his ordinary fifthwheel RV trailer was designed and built with sufficient structural strength for a gooseneck adapter conversion should pull his fifthwheel alongside a gooseneck trailer with similar gross weight capacity then inspect and compare the two trailers.

The gn adapter manufacturer assumes no responsibility whatsoever for the fifthwheel trailer it is hung on. It's a case of buyer beware.

An owner should ask his fifthwheel manufacturer if that company will warranty his trailer and frame when converted to a gn hitch.
 
An owner should ask his fifthwheel manufacturer if that company will warranty his trailer and frame when converted to a gn hitch.
I would add to that statement that you speak directly with the manufacturer... . not a dealership. Many times, the dealership service departments do not know or do not care whether its a manufacturer approved modification.
When speaking with dealership salesmen, many times they will tell you anything can be done without knowing what they are talking about...
 
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