Possibility of mixing DEF at home.

[Gonzo 1066]

This is just a hypothetical question. I see on the container of DEF that the fluid is 67% water and 33% Urea. I have farmed long enough to know how inexpensive Urea is for farm fertilizer use. Would it be possible to use distilled water and fertilizer in a home brew mix?? It would be nice to cut the cost of the DEF.

 

[TDickerson]

This is just a hypothetical question. I see on the container of DEF that the fluid is 67% water and 33% Urea. I have farmed long enough to know how inexpensive Urea is for farm fertilizer use. Would it be possible to use distilled water and fertilizer in a home brew mix?? It would be nice to cut the cost of the DEF.

When you look at the ingredients it would seem that is pretty much it. I doubt the commercial market place would want you to do this since they can capitalize on the market and make tons of profit. Urea is what it is and nothing different than they use for fertilizer and ice removal in really cold climates for airport runways, etc. Just like bottled water, we think we are really getting something special and really just paying for the plastic bottle with a little filtered tap water. Just look at the profit on this. Add a little sparkle (gas) to the water and watch the price go up even further. I'm sure as time goes by we will find more out about it and the price should come down dramatically, especially if we can just mix it up ourselves. We still buy tons of bottled water instead of just drinking regular tap water are refilling the original bottle. Convenience I guess. Go figure.

 

[rscurtis]

IIRC, DEF contains deionized water, not distilled water.

 

[mwilson]

No, No, No... ... ... . a person would be stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny trying to mix it themselves.



An owner would be gambling with thousands of dollars worth of parts if the DEF system was trashed due to an incompatable mix.



Pre-packaged DEF only, no bulk, no refilling of containers.



But if some persist I will offer the thanks of service departments and parts departments all over the country as the bottom line will swell with every system failure.



BTW, that would be considered a NON-WARRANTY situation. Not a dime..... I've seen it happen already and the OEM's will not touch a contamination failure or wrong fluid failure. All on you.



Just food for thought, if it was that attractive the big fleets that own hundreds of trucks would be doing so and THEY ARE NOT...



I can't begin to understand why it is even being discussed with a 2 1/2 gallon jug of Brenntag DEF going for $9. 97 at my store.



I am not trying to be an *** but this should idea should not be allowed to even surface. There is way too much money at stake. I would hate to see someone lose a bunch of money for no good reason.

Mike.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You don't use much DEF and it has a shelf life. The water is specially deionized and purified, and the urea must be similarly free of metal ions. Otherwise, contamination of the traps will occur, and as noted above, it will be "customer pay" not warranty. Sure there is profit, but the equipment is not cheaply available to us. The price will continue to come down as suppliers ramp up production.

 

[crabjoe]

IIRC, DEF contains deionized water, not distilled water.

Distilled water is deionized. It happens because the distilling process removes the ions...

Still without more info, I wouldn't recommend trying to make it at home. .

 

[mwilson]

This would lower one's cost if using a lot of DEF for whatever reason.....



To my surprise our sales of DEF in 55 gallon drums has tripled this summer. I figured at first that the PDI's and filling of DEF tanks on 80 new trucks gave me a spike in use but that does not seem to be the case at all. All 5 locations have increased sales on the drums.



I have tried two vendors for plastic drum pumps but have had dismal results so far. The DEF seems to stick to the internals of the pumps and they get to the point where they simply will not work. It is not an option to rinse them out, either. I already asked that question.



Just as an FYI the price on a 55 drum right now is $147. 14 plus a $50. 00 refundable drum deposit. The plastic drums have a special stainless steel bulk fill connector built in for refill purposes so they really want the empties back.



I did a little research and it looked to be the same style of filling system used for beer packaging in some cases... ... . it must be good.....



Mike.

 

[RustyJC]

From a DEF reference website:

What is the difference between agricultural urea and the urea used in Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)?



DEF uses automotive grade urea which has a much higher purity than its agricultural counterpart. Using a lower-quality urea will cause degradation of the Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) system, eventually causing the truck to break down. In the short-term it may also cause the sensors to believe the truck's DEF tank is empty and prompt a derating event, which reduces engine power and eventually prevents the engine from restarting.

Believe it or don't - your choice.



Rusty

 

[SNiebaum]

if there's anything I wouldn't mess with it's the SCR system on these new trucks... they seem to be very sensitive to the quality of DEF... oh yeah, just picked up my 2013 yesterday.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

As stated in my original question, This is Hypoithetical. I too have a new 2013 and have swore that it will remain BONE STOCK, I do NOT intend to try experiments on the complex emmissions system when the consequinces are so dire. Just a question that the scientific side of me would like answered.

 

[HBarlow]

It is only a matter of time until we hear of expensive DEF system failures and rants against Ram for building poorly designed or equipped trucks. We may not hear the details such as genius owners using bottles of distilled water and urea from the farmer's co-op.

We still learn of members using K&N window screen air filters, magic black boxes, and all the other go-fast parts on these new $50k+ trucks.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

As I noted above, the truck won't use much DEF, and it has a shelf life. Why go to the trouble and potential problems for a small amount of relatively cheap DEF?

 

[mwilson]

As stated in my original question, This is Hypoithetical. I too have a new 2013 and have swore that it will remain BONE STOCK, I do NOT intend to try experiments on the complex emmissions system when the consequinces are so dire. Just a question that the scientific side of me would like answered.

I wasn't directing this at you, just everyone in general.



The same question was asked (by the friend of a farmer) in a session at Columbus, I almost stroked out when I heard it out loud.



Mike.

 

[jgillott]

Commercial DEF is manufactured to ISO 22241

You can find AdBlue's published specs here www.iso22241.org

 

[Wingate]

guys, ive been running a 2011 F550 since April of 2010. DEF is really a NON-issue. I know Dodge made a big deal about it on their commercials since they were using heavy fuel dosing vs. DEF. but really, I have equated it to adding window washing fluid. . but actually, you will probably refill the washer fluid more often than the DEF tank.
We actually do not add DEF of even carry it on our trucks. The tanks get topped off at normal p/ms ever 6-7k miles... never close to running out.
That all being said, I would not risk a huge repair bill on something as trivial as a 2 1/2 gallon container of DEF.

 

[JHumphries]

Distilled water is deionized. It happens because the distilling process removes the ions...

Still without more info, I wouldn't recommend trying to make it at home. .

Distilled water is water that has been evaporated and condensed. Not all ions are removed during this process.
Deionized water is water that has been through an anion/cation filter that performs an ion exchange .

 

[HBarlow]

My fellow submariners have a little experience with and knowledge of distilled and deionized water.

 

[crabjoe]

Distilled water is water that has been evaporated and condensed. Not all ions are removed during this process.
Deionized water is water that has been through an anion/cation filter that performs an ion exchange .

Deionized water is water with the mineral ions removed. Please educate me on how making pure water . . distilling water ... doesn't remove the mineral ions. .

 

[HBarlow]

I believe the water distillation process removes some but not all ions.

 

[RustyJC]

Distilled versus deionized water - LINK

Rusty