2004.5 fueling issue / smoking

[Kamper Dave]

FUELING ISSUE:
2004. 5 Dodge Ram 2500 with 5. 9 Cummins. Odometer =115,000 miles.
We have been smoking since the spring of 2012. If we have boost over 5 then we are smoking. It smokes gray/ black on cold starts. It hazes going up any hill. It smokes worse in high altitude = 8,000ASL. It smokes less after she has been on a long run and is HOT.
• We are getting good fuel mileage.
• Stanadyne used with each gallon of fuel.
• We are NOT using oil.
• The oil tests “normal” via Lab.
• Fuel Filter Changed with each oil change.
• Antifreeze level remains steady.
• No pressure at the oil fill cap.
• No Boost Leaks.
• Turbo is tight.
No bubbles at radiator cap upon startup.

TIME LINE, (this Cummins did NOT smoke until the ECM failed):
• Batteries died and ECM failed upon new battery installation. (New batteries and rebuilt ECM)
• Noticed smoke. Replaced fuel filter cleaned and oiled air filter. (Still smoking)
• Replaced all injectors as recommended @ Cummins authorized dealer. (Still smoking…ouch)
• Dodge Dealer diagnostics with a road test to disable each cylinder. They cleared phantom torque converter codes. “There is no serious problem with your diesel. Maybe the wrong injectors were installed. ” (still smoking)
• Back to Cummins dealer. Diagnostics are run and “there is no serious problem with your diesel. ” Cleared phantom grid heaters not working codes. (still smoking)
• Back to the Dodge Dealership that installed the ECM. Diagnostics are run, “there is no serious problem with your diesel. The ECM tests good”. (still smoking)
• Diagnostic run at a reputable Diesel Shop in Wisconsin; “there is no serious problem with your diesel. Your muffler is rusting out. ” After some talk here about back pressure a new muffler was installed and cat inspected. (still smoking)`

There has to be a sensor that is providing bad information to the ECM. Mass Air flow? Boost? Barometric Pressure?
Any constructive help would be appreciated. THANK YOU in advance.
Kamper Dave

 

[cerberusiam]

MAP sensor and IAT contribute to the fueling map off idle. Just another one of the things than can electrically go wrong.

Did the smoke change any at all with the "new" injectors? Did they verify the correct tips were on the injectors?

With stock fueling and a stock exhaust if you are getting anything more than a couple seconds of black\grey soot when you mash the throttle, or, you can see the smoke in following headlights there is an issue.

I assume no Smarty or other mods?

 

[JR]

Since the dealer has been chasing fuel components I assume this is not an oil related smoke? How does your intercooler piping look? It should be clean and oil free.

 

[Kamper Dave]

MAP sensor and IAT contribute to the fueling map off idle. Just another one of the things than can electrically go wrong.

Did the smoke change any at all with the "new" injectors? Did they verify the correct tips were on the injectors?

With stock fueling and a stock exhaust if you are getting anything more than a couple seconds of black\grey soot when you mash the throttle, or, you can see the smoke in following headlights there is an issue.

I assume no Smarty or other mods?

I removed the Bully Dog Torque 600 prior to the ECM failure.
There was a definite reduction in smoke with new injectors. I returned to the same Cummins Authorized shop that installed the injectors to have then verify that the correct injectors were installed.

 

[Kamper Dave]

Since the dealer has been chasing fuel components I assume this is not an oil related smoke? How does your intercooler piping look? It should be clean and oil free.

I'll have to pull a boot and check on this.

 

[Kamper Dave]

Since the dealer has been chasing fuel components I assume this is not an oil related smoke? How does your intercooler piping look? It should be clean and oil free.

It is NOT clean and it is NOT oil free. What is the BAD news?

Turbo?

 

[cerberusiam]

If you have oil in the intake tract it is coming form 2 places, over oiled air filter or the turbo. If you are seeing enough smoke to be noticeable you should see a drop in engine oil.

If you have oil in the inake tract it is likely on the MAP sensor also and that will foul up the fueling curve. Pull the MAP and try to clean it with electronic component cleaner to see if it makes any difference.

Where are you seeing oil, before after the CAC?

 

[Kamper Dave]

If you have oil in the intake tract it is coming form 2 places, over oiled air filter or the turbo. If you are seeing enough smoke to be noticeable you should see a drop in engine oil.

If you have oil in the inake tract it is likely on the MAP sensor also and that will foul up the fueling curve. Pull the MAP and try to clean it with electronic component cleaner to see if it makes any difference.

Where are you seeing oil, before after the CAC?

I doubt that I use more than a 1/2 a quart of oil between oil changes. I have never needed to add oil.
I pulled the boot down from the air intake manifold. So, after the CAC. Tomorrow I will pull the air cleaner and check there. Although I did clean the filter last fall and was careful not to over oil the pleats.
Where can I find the MAP sensor on my 2004. 5?
Thanks

 

[JR]

Also pull the elbow off at the turbo and inspect your wheel closely. It should be clean and smooth. If it is oily/dirty/ pitted your air filter is passing dirt and you are slowly destroying your turbo. Oiled filters are just not good for filtering the large volumes of air a CTD inhales, you would be doing yourself a huge favor to go back to a paper element. The factory boxes on these trucks are honestly one of the best set ups. MAP sensor will be threaded in your intake manifold on the driver side of the engine, towards the back.

 

[Kamper Dave]

• MAP Sensor Location? There are two sensors each with a 4 wire plug located aft of the air intake from the CAC. The one closest to the intake arm is easily reachable the other will be rougher. Any idea which one is the MAP?
• Oil Usage isn't very much, but there isn't a lot of oil in the air intake to the manifold either just a film.
• No Oil Found before the Turbo: I pulled the plumbing that runs from the air filter to the turbo and found it to be oil free with a very light coating of dust.
• Turbo Blades: I was down to the turbo blades in April and found them to be tight and clean. Since then it was supposed to be checked again at the diesel shop that ran diagnostics.
• AIR FILTER: The K&N filter was on this truck when we purchased it. Right now I'd be happy to have it stop smoking. In the last 16 months I've replaced the ECM, Injectors, Water Pump, Ball Joints, U-Joints, Front Hubs, and a Rear Caliper. Now I need a set of tires and possibly a new Turbo. This camping stuff is starting to cost me big time.
Kamper Dave

 

[cerberusiam]

The rear sensor held down by 2 torx screws is the MAP\IAT sensor, the front one is rail pressure.

Check the tube from the turbo to the CAC and see if it has oil. If it does that is a pretty good indication the seal on the compressor side is seeping. If the truck has been run in a heavy dust environment there is a good chance the whole thing is dusted, turbo and engine.

 

[p-Bar]

Maybe run a cylinder contribution test if not that ECM sent back for retest . Or as Cerb has said. Most aren't real fond of the K&N . Was the silica within normal limits?

 

[Kamper Dave]

The rear sensor held down by 2 torx screws is the MAP\IAT sensor, the front one is rail pressure.

Check the tube from the turbo to the CAC and see if it has oil. If it does that is a pretty good indication the seal on the compressor side is seeping. If the truck has been run in a heavy dust environment there is a good chance the whole thing is dusted, turbo and engine.

cerberusiam
We are camped in a pine forest where the pine pollen is unbelievably heavy.
We are 1100 miles from home and have very few tools here. If I screw things up it's a 2 hour tow to town. So, I will be waiting to check the MAP. I will be in town this weekend and will pick up a paper filter at a Dodge Dealer.
If you are saying the Turbo is starting to leak oil into the intake then what do you suggest as a replacement? I am tempted to gamble on it holding out until I get back home. What is the install time for a Turbo?
I am new to owning a Diesel. So, please keep it simple. :>)
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

 

[cerberusiam]

Installing a new turbo is not a simple task, its not by far the hardest either. If it is just leaking small amount sit will likely be ok until you get home. The biggest danger with a leaking turbo is going to be a runaway engine if it completely lunches a seal.

The MAP is pretty easy to change, not much harder than the air filer. That one you could do in a parking lot with the right tools and a little care.

You need to pull the tube from the turbo to the intake and check for oil there to know if the tubo is leaking first.

 

[Kamper Dave]

Installing a new turbo is not a simple task, its not by far the hardest either. If it is just leaking small amount sit will likely be ok until you get home. The biggest danger with a leaking turbo is going to be a runaway engine if it completely lunches a seal.



The MAP is pretty easy to change, not much harder than the air filer. That one you could do in a parking lot with the right tools and a little care.



You need to pull the tube from the turbo to the intake and check for oil there to know if the tubo is leaking first.

The turbo IS seeping oil. While the truck was up on the hoist having the fuel pump replaced I asked the mechanic to check the input side of the CAC and he found oil. He thought it was a very small leak.

I do carry a CO2 fire extinguisher in the bed of the truck.

MAP cleaning will be next.

Thanks again!