Dually vs SRW Questions

[MJWenrich]

Melvin... I think you are correct in your assessment. When posing questions, I noticed several times his eyes wandered into that zone of "I don't know what he is asking but I have to sound like I know so I'll just BS something". Maybe I can just dust off the tent and tell mama she is going to have to ruff it. Rekindle the old days when we were young. Oh yeah... That'll work. Thanks guys.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The extra stability of the dually also depends on having stiffer springs to work with the added leverage from the wide wheel spacing; the trailer is connected to the frame, not the axle. Those stiffer springs will degrade the ride when empty, as will stiffer tires. 2013 orders were cut off in early June, as above. 18" is for 3500 SRW; 17" for 3500 dually and 2500s. For me, a dually would be a huge pain except when towing a big, heavy trailer. Now that adequate tires are easily available for the SRW, I am happy with the SRW. The short vs. long bed debate will continue. I run a Transfer Flow tank in the bed, and their 75 gallon costs me a net 1' of bed length vs. the long bed with their 98 gallon tank--not so big a difference. Note that the longer crew cab means the new ones are about 10" more wheelbase than before, so a crew/longbed will have a big turning circle and may not fit in your garage. With the new ones, the mega/shortbed is about like the length and wheelbase of the former quad/longbed, right in the middle between crew/shortbed, and crew/longbed. You can get all the details on www.rambodybuilder.com

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Also, the power rating of the Cummins is tied with the transmission selection: 350/660 with manual, 370/800 with 68RFE, and 385/850 with Aisin.

 

[TCDiesel]

If My tare Wt is 15,700 WTH do You think My GVW Is:--) So whats the OEM Spring # for DRW and SRW? the only different form SRW and DRW (Suspension) is the spring The DRW has overloads with the 2003-12 (6101) Spring, the SRW (6102) is Arch for reinforcement and each Spring is 1mm thicker then the 6101. For those who Want to know if you add a leaf correctly to the 6102 It will out perform the 6101 with the Overloads.





It always seems that someone with decades of knowledge experience YOU have to provide the Proof.



Over 1. 5 million LBS in 8 months cross the scale.



I'm done with this thread... call Me for the facts

 

[Powder Extreme]

You said you've been towing 25,000 lbs for over 20 years legally with a srw truck? I call BS. They haven't had srw trucks with enough gvw until recent years. NO srw truck in the 90's could legally pull 25,000 lbs.

 

[NIsaacs]

NO srw truck in the 90's could legally pull 25,000 lbs.

They can if they are licensed for it.



Nick

 

[MelvinPierce]

Depends on your def of "legally".

If you mean by the sticker on the door, then no, could not be done.

If you mean by what the state laws governing weight say, then yes you can, as they are ONLY concerned with tire and axle weight on the road, NOT with what the mfg says.

 

[TCDiesel]

Yes, We upgraded the brakes, suspension, drive-train, trans, and Power, The 13s are already off the transport darn good to go... The TQ management is sluggish on the 13 Aisin in 1st gear,It is common for manufacturers to program low end TQ BC it stops the truck form being surgee, The social network would be full of comments like this, Fn truck took out my garage Door (Or Worst) BC I put in R and it surge and hit the Door, In reality it was BC you did not have enough pressure on the Brake Pedal when engage form P to R or D.

 

[barracudabad64]

This question is a little off the subject but here goes, My uncle has a 1996 dually and he keeps tearing up the rear fenders as his sight isn't what it use to be. So my question is can a guy remove the rear fenders and or does the whole bed need to be replaced to do away with the dual rear wheels. He doesn't tow his big 5th wheel any more and just uses the truck for more of a daily driver than a hauling or towing truck. He of course can't afford to replace the truck or is willing to part with his 96. I have not had a dually or been around them and there fore would appreciate any ideas on this conversion.

Thanks for the help
George

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You can buy a SRW bed, but the dually differential is too wide. The weight should be centered the thickness of a wheel mounting surface (about 5/16") outboard of the mounting surface, for the bearings to live and the diff to have its weight capacity. If you just use the inner dually wheel, so the tire is centered in a SRW bed wheelhouse, weight capacity would be greatly reduced.

 

[barracudabad64]

Joseph, So what your saying is that the SRW bed and a SWR rear end would have to be used along with different wheels. They are not worried about the weight capacity being reduced as he never hauls or tows anything with it anymore. They are just trying to get him to keep from hitting the rear fenders on the side of the carport and what not. I guess from what I've been told they have had to have the fenders either replaced or repaired twice in the past year and the carport corner fixed. My uncle is 86 yrs old so he is not the driver he use to be and of course if you say anything about it why he always finds a excuse of why it happened. He really needs a smaller truck and I tried to trade him out of his dually as it is really a clean truck and been well maintained but he just won't part with it and we are all afraid it is only a matter of time before he tangles up with a car in a parking lot.

Thanks for your help
George

 

[AH64ID]

You said you've been towing 25,000 lbs for over 20 years legally with a srw truck? I call BS. They haven't had srw trucks with enough gvw until recent years. NO srw truck in the 90's could legally pull 25,000 lbs.

OEM GVWR is not a legal weight.

Depends on your def of "legally".

If you mean by the sticker on the door, then no, could not be done.

If you mean by what the state laws governing weight say, then yes you can, as they are ONLY concerned with tire and axle weight on the road, NOT with what the mfg says.

Precisely.


If you see any truck with a slide-in and a trailer (sometimes not even a trailer) it's over the MFGR GVW. A friend has a 2007. 5 DRW and a Lance 10xxS (not the biggest one), with a dry camper min food, etc it weighs 12,100 on the scales. The GVWR from the factory is 12,200, so anything added (beer, water, trailer, etc) would put him over the 12,200 OEM GVWR, but he's not illegal if he has the tires and most importantly what he has paid for.

The same is true with most SRW's towing any decent trailer, I am in the 10,000-11,000 GVW with my trailer hooked up and some stuff in the bed.

I've personally hauled a good sized camper while towing cars etc with both a srw and a drw.
Don't even consider the srw, you will regret it. Unless it is a tiny popup camper, it is absolutely night and day difference between the two. White knuckle crosswinds with a srw won't even phase a drw, add in a heavy trailer to the mix and it multiplies.

I have a 30' long, 8' tall enclosed car hauler (wind sail) that would tend to wag some behind my srw, even with a sway bar. Same trailer behind my drw doesn't wiggle a bit with no sway bay. Difference? Sidewall flex on the back end of the pickup, which gets even worse with a heavy camper. Add a crosswind and it gets downright dangerous.

Remember with a slide in you have move your ball mount even further back which magnifies any shimmy in the truck to your trailer.

If you are getting an extended receiver, go straight to torklift, far and away the best. Don't waste your time and money trying other units like I did.

I have a 29'3" TT that is 10'11" total height. I have towed it at 70 thru gusty and sustained crosswinds in excess of 30 mph. Reading your post I should have been white knuckling. That couldn't be further from the truth, the camper has zero sway, zero wag, and is extremely stable. I haven't ever towed it with a DRW, but I can tell you there is no room for improvement with how it tows right now.

If you have a 30'x8' camper that sways you have other issues that need to be addressed.

The only time I ever felt any sway was slow speed forest service roads with sharp off camber corners, the weight of the camper would cause some body roll that was easily fixed with a truck sway-bar.

For our camping trip this past weekend we had 2 rigs with slide in's. One was a 2500 with 3950 lb/tire 285/75/17's, a big-wig swaybar and airbags. The other was a 100% stock 2007. 5 DRW. Both were ± 5200 FAW ± 7000 RAW. Guess which one has less sway at low speed, and winding roads at 55?

It is possible to have a stable and easy to drive SRW, it does take a little work to the truck thou. But sometimes a DRW won't work, so you adapt your truck to work. There is no reason it cannot be as stable.

A DRW is the easiest answer for slide-in campers and any amount of towing, but sometimes that's not a possible option. But even based on a DRW there are additions that are needed such as airbags, sway-bar, etc.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Well sure a SRW can be modified to perform almost as well as a stock Dually, but modify the Dually and its better yet. Two tires can't be as stable or carry as much weight as four, thats just physics. (with the exception of super singles which I don't believe are available for our trucks and would require the DRW bed anyway)

And yes, there is more sidewall flex with two tires than there is with four, again that's just physics. That sidewall flex is amplified with an extended receiver.

I'm not saying you CAN'T modify a SRW to be acceptable, I'm saying a stock SRW isn't nearly as stable as a stock DRW, not everybody wants or can afford to spend a bunch of money modifying their brand new truck.

Cheers.

 

[barracudabad64]

I wasn't trying to make a SWR into a dually what I was wanting to know is the my uncle has a 1996 dually that he keeps tearing the rear fenders up on and my cousin asked me what would have to be changed to make it a SWR, i. e. fenders wheels and rear end or can one just change out the fender extensions and use just single wheels from the dually or does the bed have to be changed and the rear-end housing along with different wheels. My uncle is 86 yrs old and they don't use it for pulling trailers or heavy loads it is just his daily driver and has had it since new and won't part with it. I suggested a 1/2 ton truck but he won't hear of changing trucks so we are kind of at a loss. So what is needed to do this kind of modification to a dually.

Thanks George

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

To look right, you need a SRW bed. Without the dually fenders, iirc the dually bed won't look complete or the same as a SRW bed. If it does look OK, you can use it, of course. You could use just the inner wheels on the dually diff if you aren't loading the truck. Otherwise, swap in a SRW differential too.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Sorry Barracuda. I was speaking in reference to Apache's post in which we are discussing the original questions in this thread.

 

[AH64ID]

Well sure a SRW can be modified to perform almost as well as a stock Dually, but modify the Dually and its better yet. Two tires can't be as stable or carry as much weight as four, thats just physics. (with the exception of super singles which I don't believe are available for our trucks and would require the DRW bed anyway)



And yes, there is more sidewall flex with two tires than there is with four, again that's just physics. That sidewall flex is amplified with an extended receiver.



I'm not saying you CAN'T modify a SRW to be acceptable, I'm saying a stock SRW isn't nearly as stable as a stock DRW, not everybody wants or can afford to spend a bunch of money modifying their brand new truck.



Cheers.

I would wager that a modified SRW will out-preform a stock dually, and the amount of sway we saw last weekend backs that up. Your statement indicates that all of the sway is tires, and none of it suspension, but we all know that is not true. The main leafs are only 7% stiffer and it takes a lot of weight to make the overloads work (in fact at 7K RAW the overloads were not even contacted), I do not for one minute think that 7% stiffer main springs will make the truck that much more stable than a SRW with airbags and a swaybar.



There are plenty of ways a DRW is better, and plenty of ways that it is not. The problem is that TDR is just as DRW biased as it is Cummins biased, and that leads to a lot of DRW pushing that may or may not be necessary. It this thread is obvious the OP should get a DRW, but lets not get carried away with embellishing the capabilities.



The single biggest issue I see with SRW trucks is people overload the tires, which will exemplify any tire flex, instability, and in general make the experience much worse. I think this is also more the standard than it isn't, which is unfortunate. Most people don't weigh their rigs and/or listen to salesmen, so a SRW doesn't work and they buy a DRW. No amount of suspension modification will increase the tire capacity. The end result is the DRW isn't overloaded and working fine, but if you pay attention to your tire ratings and don't exceed them, and run the proper air the SRW is a very stable platform without any of the added width drawbacks. My truck only has 3K lbs of capacity on the rear axle over empty weight, in the world of campers that's going to be exceed by pretty much any hard sided camper, yet I see some HUGE campers on trucks like mine, with stock tires.

 

[TCDiesel]

I would wager that a modified SRW will out-preform a stock dually, and the amount of sway we saw last weekend backs that up. Your statement indicates that all of the sway is tires, and none of it suspension, but we all know that is not true. The main leafs are only 7% stiffer and it takes a lot of weight to make the overloads work (in fact at 7K RAW the overloads were not even contacted), I do not for one minute think that 7% stiffer main springs will make the truck that much more stable than a SRW with airbags and a swaybar.



There are plenty of ways a DRW is better, and plenty of ways that it is not. The problem is that TDR is just as DRW biased as it is Cummins biased, and that leads to a lot of DRW pushing that may or may not be necessary. It this thread is obvious the OP should get a DRW, but lets not get carried away with embellishing the capabilities.



The single biggest issue I see with SRW trucks is people overload the tires, which will exemplify any tire flex, instability, and in general make the experience much worse. I think this is also more the standard than it isn't, which is unfortunate. Most people don't weigh their rigs and/or listen to salesmen, so a SRW doesn't work and they buy a DRW. No amount of suspension modification will increase the tire capacity. The end result is the DRW isn't overloaded and working fine, but if you pay attention to your tire ratings and don't exceed them, and run the proper air the SRW is a very stable platform without any of the added width drawbacks. My truck only has 3K lbs of capacity on the rear axle over empty weight, in the world of campers that's going to be exceed by pretty much any hard sided camper, yet I see some HUGE campers on trucks like mine, with stock tires.

My thoughts' exactly... Tire Technology Has come Along Way... ... ... DRW was the only Way to Meet the 600LBS PER SQ INCH law (at one time). Now with bigger + E ratings Tires No problems, I pull the Rockies all Winter long With My Machines (4 place Snowmobile trailer), In our Group Some Have DRWs, In wintry conditions I run by those DRWs in the mountains and off Road. I'm on My way to Scheid Diesel Extravaganza... Yep peeeew. Both Pulling truck are running Awesome. (Sorry They Are D-Max).

 

[Powder Extreme]

I'm referring to sway on the horizontal plane which transmits to the trailer and will cause it to sway, that is due to sidewall flex. Swaying or tilting on the vertical plane has a lot to do with suspension as you said, however that doesn't transmit to the trailer nearly as much.



I agree completely that A LOT of people buy a drw when they don't NEED one, but to each their own.

In 2001 I bought a new drw that had been special ordered by someone else without a towing or camper package, no idea what he was going to use the truck for.



Like the OP said and you agreed, even a mid sized slide in will have the axle overloaded on a srw, then add in the tongue weight and the weight transfer and its really overloaded.

 

[RustyJC]

I agree completely that A LOT of people buy a drw when they don't NEED one, but to each their own.

My experience is that a lot MORE people buy SRW trucks when they should have bought duallies for the job at hand. I'd never remotely consider towing our 5th wheel with a SRW truck.



Rusty