B&W on 3500 Dually

[Powder Extreme]

Rusty, I was only talking about Model 3500 which doesn't use U bolts. The socket bolts on with four 1/2 x 13 grade 8 bolts; each pivot arm likewise.

Okay , that explains why I was so lost in your post, I apparently have the older style, mine the post that drops into the gooseneck portion is mounted with U-bolts.

Edit: I can't find the companion you are talking about, I only see a model 3000, which is what I have. Where did you see a model 3500? No luck on B&W's site and no luck with a google search.

Edit Edit: I found a you tube video posted by B&W about the hitch you are talking about, that looks like it was almost designed for the 3500 Ram! I am going to buy one as soon as it is available.

On a side note, anybody need a companion in perfect shape that already has the updated leg add on for the new trucks? (It's removable to work well with older trucks too)

 

[Powder Extreme]

I'm not Joe (actually I am, just not Joe Donnelly), but from this old broken down mechanical engineer's perspective, I wouldn't mount the Companion hitch frame backwards. Why? Because the frame is designed to transfer forces directly from the frame to the adapter post during acceleration, but the braking forces are transferred to the post by the two (2) U-bolts. There is nothing moderating the acceleration forces, but the braking forces applied to the Companion hitch adapter post as tensile loading of the U-bolts are reduced by the trailer brakes. Therefore, I would expect acceleration forces experienced by the hitch to be greater than braking forces, and that's reflected in the design of the attachment mechanism. I wouldn't want the higher acceleration loads to be carried by the U-bolts.

Rusty

Although I would tend to agree with what you are saying, in my opinion the absolute most stress the hitch will ever receive would be in a panic stop situation. At that point for the first few feet, the truck is absorbing ALL of the weight of the truck AND the trailer. Electric trailer brakes have a lag from when the brakes are applied till when they engage. So during those first moments, the entire 20,000 lb trailer is putting all of that strain on the u-bolts.

If we follow your logic, and add what i am saying, it would almost seem installing it backwards would be the strongest method.

Thoughts?

 

[PDM]

Although I would tend to agree with what you are saying, in my opinion the absolute most stress the hitch will ever receive would be in a panic stop situation. At that point for the first few feet, the truck is absorbing ALL of the weight of the truck AND the trailer. Electric trailer brakes have a lag from when the brakes are applied till when they engage. So during those first moments, the entire 20,000 lb trailer is putting all of that strain on the u-bolts.



If we follow your logic, and add what i am saying, it would almost seem installing it backwards would be the strongest method.



Thoughts?

Off the top of my head I can see that in a panic stop you should have trailer brakes helping relieve some forces from the hitch. During acceleration the forces are all seen at the hitch. I will admit I don't know what the numbers are for either acceleration or deceleration forces.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Off the top of my head I can see that in a panic stop you should have trailer brakes helping relieve some forces from the hitch. During acceleration the forces are all seen at the hitch. I will admit I don't know what the numbers are for either acceleration or deceleration forces.

Yes but, like I said, for the first few feet until the trailer brakes are engaged, the hitch is absorbing the weight of the trailer. Electric brakes have a lag between when they are activated and when they engage, granted it isn't much of a lag, but during that time the hitch IS absorbing the weight.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The socket of the model 3500 is bolted with eight, not four bolts as I stated above, sorry. Four per side of it. Yes, it appears to be made with the Ram 3500 in mind!

Video for the Model 1314 gooseneck installation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ84NdxKEo8



here are some photos of the Companion model 3500, and a link to a youtube video on it:



http://www.turnoverball.com/companion-model-3500-rv-hitch-press-images

 

[RustyJC]

Yes but, like I said, for the first few feet until the trailer brakes are engaged, the hitch is absorbing the weight of the trailer. Electric brakes have a lag between when they are activated and when they engage, granted it isn't much of a lag, but during that time the hitch IS absorbing the weight.

How many times would the U-bolts be subject to acceleration forces versus all-out panic stop forces? Acceleration forces are routine; panic stops are not. It's not just a question of ultimate tensile strength of the U-bolts; one has to consider the possibility of cyclic fatigue failure as well, which (IMHO) would be more likely with the hitch frame reversed.

Just my opinion - feel free to act on it or ignore it. Your choice.

Rusty

 

[Powder Extreme]

How many times would the U-bolts be subject to acceleration forces versus all-out panic stop forces? Acceleration forces are routine; panic stops are not. It's not just a question of ultimate tensile strength of the U-bolts; one has to consider the possibility of cyclic fatigue failure as well, which (IMHO) would be more likely with the hitch frame reversed.

Just my opinion - feel free to act on it or ignore it. Your choice.

Rusty

That's a good point. That goes along with I was saying too, the acceleration is virtually a constant with panic stop being once in awhile.

Another consideration would be god forbid an accident, if something was installed incorrectly the lawyers would be on that like flys on you know what.

I'm not gonna risk it. Will buy the hitch Joe is talking about when its available.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Powder, do you have the B&W 1314 gooseneck? I am finishing up the installation of one and I am very impressed with it, design and fit. I can check with my contact at B&W on the Companion 3500 if you wish.

 

[Powder Extreme]

I do have the 1314 gooseneck. I'm pretty impressed with how it mounts, I just wish Ram would have designed the frame to have the ball about 10-12" further forward. My Duramax is about 8" ahead of the axle which wasn't bad. With the new front ends on the Ram, it should be carrying part of the load, would make it ride better.

I called B&W this morning, they are sending me a new base, the jaws are the same for both, so it saved me quite a few bucks not having to buy the whole hitch. I'm hoping I can sell my base to somebody who can buy new jaws which would save them quite abit of money as well.

Thanks for your help!
Jerry