2000 Fuso Fh ip timing ? cant figure out how to adjust ip

[reinerh]

hi guys,



i have a 2000 fuso fh 6 cylinder motor with bosch type inline pump ala p7100 yet being quite different.



this ip is all electronic.



what i cant figure out for the live of me is how to adjust the initial timing.



there is a nice coupler upfront and i was confident this needs to be loosened and then one can infinitely adjust it. not so, its keyed, took me well over 1 hour to figure that one out.



so how is this ip adjusted ??



and does anybody have the values for doing it with the dial indicator.



thanks much for any help or pointers anybody could give me

 

[mwilson]

These little varmints are different, for sure.

We are a Fuso dealer so I will ask the Fuso tech on Monday. I may need the full vin of the truck.

 

[reinerh]

These little varmints are different, for sure.

We are a Fuso dealer so I will ask the Fuso tech on Monday. I may need the full vin of the truck.

oh man its my lucky day

thanks sooooooooo much for doing this for me.

the truck vin =

JW6CCG1G5YL000885

and the ip id number = ME086834

again truck = 2000 fuso fh stickshift with 6 cylinder 5. 9 engine

what has me so stumped is that the coupler upfront is keyed, and the pump is mounted fixed = cant be turned like on most all diesels.
i guess i could take out the key and then it truly is infinite adjustable

also whats so odd this ip has like no outside adjustments whatsoever that i can find. only thing i found is upfront on top = like a bigger screw with a locknut. this must be an adjustment of sort, and its the only one i could find. its right in front of the fuel inlet.

so maybe these stock cant be timing adjusted since everything seems to be fixed, which i have a very hard time believing.

please also ask what the values per degree are to set it traditionally with the dial indicator through delivery valve on cylinder 1.

thanks again,

greets

reiner

 

[rscurtis]

Why do you want to adjust the timing? BTW, that is one expensive injection pump if it has the prestroke function.

 

[mwilson]

Timing one of these is strange from what I remember.

It looks like a new pump in the picture.

Mike.

 

[reinerh]

this engine has mechanical injectors and i believe the prestroke if it has it happens within the injectors ala pumpenduese in a vw.
my goal is to advance it some, its speced at 3 degrees which is awfully retarded for a idi glowplug engine. even the old fords run 9, cummins 14 to 21 and mercedes up to 25 btdc.

the main isssue is that it loads up the way it is, so who knows if it is even within specs.

greets

reiner

 

[rscurtis]

I had a '96 FE-HD with the four cylinder 3. 9 engine. The prestroke function rotates the barrels in the pump to adjust the timing. That engine in your truck, assuming it is the same family as the 3. 9, is a direct injection engine with glow plug assist when the temperature is below freezing. If it's "loading up", check the electrical components of the exhaust brake to make sure it opens when the accelerator is depressed.

 

[reinerh]

I had a '96 FE-HD with the four cylinder 3. 9 engine. The prestroke function rotates the barrels in the pump to adjust the timing. That engine in your truck, assuming it is the same family as the 3. 9, is a direct injection engine with glow plug assist when the temperature is below freezing. If it's "loading up", check the electrical components of the exhaust brake to make sure it opens when the accelerator is depressed.

my motor belongs to the same family i am pretty sure.

yes, the prestroke happens within the ip, just found a great video. i thought it happened in the injectors, was clearly wrong there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPPeGYXAO-E

i believe the exhaust brake functions properly, makes no difference in loading up if its on or off.

are you sure that its direct injected ?? that makes no sense to me. i always thought all glow plug engines inject into the precombustion chamber in which the glow plug protrudes to raise the temp for easier combustion upon cold start.

none or less i want to verify its timing where its at to put my mind at ease

 

[rscurtis]

I'm sure about the DI- the Duramax and all the Powerstrokes also use glow plugs, as to many modern DI passenger car engines. My Fuso would start instantly at 0*F with no trouble at all.

 

[reinerh]

I'm sure about the DI- the Duramax and all the Powerstrokes also use glow plugs, as to many modern DI passenger car engines. My Fuso would start instantly at 0*F with no trouble at all.

yes you are right about that. the dmaxes i am a little familiar with, they are direct injected and do have glow plugs.

now i am not so sure if my fuso is idi or direct injected. but the glowplug is right next to the injector angled towards the injector which lead me to believe this is an idi motor, but i have no xray vision to see inside the head

 

[mwilson]

this engine has mechanical injectors and i believe the prestroke if it has it happens within the injectors ala pumpenduese in a vw.

my goal is to advance it some, its speced at 3 degrees which is awfully retarded for a idi glowplug engine. even the old fords run 9, cummins 14 to 21 and mercedes up to 25 btdc.



the main isssue is that it loads up the way it is, so who knows if it is even within specs.



greets



reiner

Fuso tech was off Monday, just went out and talked to him today.



(1) Has the pump been changed??



(2) Are you simply chasing low power???



(3) Timing is either 3 degrees or 7 degrees depending on the model.



(4) Says that many injection pumps are changed with no improvement, 9 times out of 10 there is an electrical issue causing low power.



(5) DO NOT adjust anything without the correct procedure, you can literally crack the case of the injection pump.



Give us some more background.



Mike.

 

[reinerh]

Fuso tech was off Monday, just went out and talked to him today.

(1) Has the pump been changed??

(2) Are you simply chasing low power???

(3) Timing is either 3 degrees or 7 degrees depending on the model.

(4) Says that many injection pumps are changed with no improvement, 9 times out of 10 there is an electrical issue causing low power.

(5) DO NOT adjust anything without the correct procedure, you can literally crack the case of the injection pump.

Give us some more background.

Mike.

hi mike,

no pump change,

it runs just fine, only issue is it loads up on idle when cold. when its idling longer then lets say 5 min, below no issue.

and we are not talking in the middle o winter here, its doing this always the same even when its 90 out. idling 5 min and then you go its blue smoke big time. truck only has 130k miles on it.

power all is good, burns no oil so all good there.

i thought that maybe the ip timing is not quite right, and thats what i wanted to check. but maybe thats not it.

let me know if you need more info.

thx much

 

[mwilson]

hi mike,



no pump change,



it runs just fine, only issue is it loads up on idle when cold. when its idling longer then lets say 5 min, below no issue.



and we are not talking in the middle o winter here, its doing this always the same even when its 90 out. idling 5 min and then you go its blue smoke big time. truck only has 130k miles on it.



power all is good, burns no oil so all good there.



i thought that maybe the ip timing is not quite right, and thats what i wanted to check. but maybe thats not it.



let me know if you need more info.



thx much

Ok, Thanks.



I will relay that information to Tim (the Fuso Tech) in the morning and see what he says.



He came to work for us when we bought the Fuso franchise 3 years ago and he had worked for the previous Fuso dealer for at least 10 years. He has a lot of experience with the product, and if needed I can contact our Fuso Regional Service Manager who is extremely proficient at troubleshooting.



I'll keep passing info back and forth as needed.

 

[reinerh]

thanks much mike,

as i said the engine is totally healthy, no oil burning of any kind no weird noises, just this loading up.

maybe its time for the injectors to look at, but so far i thought maybe the ip timing is a tad of.

 

[reinerh]

so last friday i took the injectors out and took them to my local diesel shop.

1 was good, another close, but 4 were not too hot they said.

so will have them sonic cleaned, checked for pop pressure and they should go back in next week.

will see if the beats still will load up, if yes then the timing is next or i just wont idle it anymore

mike, do you happen to know if there is like a service manual covering the engine only. like how to time the ip, torque values boost values etc.

i sure would love to have that to lean more about this beast.

maybe you can find out for me. thx

 

[rscurtis]

You may have found the problem. Why not replace the tips while you have them out of the truck? Your problem is most likely wear related as opposed to dirt related. That engine should also have mechanical tappets that need periodic adjustment.

 

[reinerh]

yes i was going for new nozzles, till the diesel shop told me they are unobtainable in all usa. something about east coast warehouse moving and bosch also does not have them.

my thoughts exactly = wear, thats why i wanted to go for new nozzles. but i am outa luck there. new injectors would have been 165 a piece, so for now it will be the cheap route. down the road when they can get me nozzles or i find them somewhere i will go for new ones.

oh the valves were adjusted just 10k miles ago, they are non hydraulic.

we shall see if i found the problem, i never call victory before it actually is proven confirmed.

but the timing being at 3 degrees btdc still baffles me. this is so friggin late vs all other diesels i ever had. the old mercedes had up to 26 btdc and the cummins 12v are around 12 to 20.

i remember back in germany i had a rabbit diesel which while adjusting the timing i moved the ip by hand. one extreme it was quiet as can be and smoking blue with very low rpm, that was late.

and then advanced max it made a godawfull noise, no smoke and the rpm were much higher.

the correct setting as far as i recall was 14 btdc.

this was an idi motor, vs this fuso is a direct injected.