2013 CEL Code P20EE

[EDankievitch]

Ok so after 7300 miles of bliss I got my first CEL. Trip to the Dealer as I can't seem to read the codes at home, and Code P20EE shows up. Ok so Code P20EE is the Cat below threshold. Dealer seems to think that it's sub standard DEF fluid. Here's the kicker I've only added 2.5 gal of PEEK DEF and that was 1300 miles ago. Why would it show up now if the fluid was of poor quality? Only thing that I did out of the normal was park nose down on a steep drive last night. The CEL wasn't on when the truck was parked but it came on at start up. The Tec that knows his job well doesn't feel that it's bad DEF fluid but is stumped as for why the CEL came on. Hope this is not the start of stupid isues...
On another note there are a few updates out for the transmission shifting and E Break as well as the SAT radio. I don't have the part numbers for the flashes but they do make the truck and e break shift and work better.

 

[crabjoe]

Without checking the DEF qualify with a Def Refractometer, he's just guessing and hoping you'll leave because it might be your fault....

Why does it seem like dealers like to blame DEF but never have a Refractometer for testing? Anyone can buy one for under $100, so if they're going to try and blame it on DEF quality, they should have tested it 1st. You should just tell them it's the SCR system itself and to replace it under warranty ... It's not like your guess is any worse than theirs...

 

[rrl989]

If it was bad DEF, then the code would be for bad DEF. Don't worry, at least you're in warranty, if not they would start replacing parts, the most expensive stuff first!

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

How old is your 2013? Was the truck in high heat for a while? These situations degrade DEF, but I concur with the above--they should test it, not just pass blame. Did you run out of DEF? At 7300 miles, you might be very low on it.

 

[Bug Out]

DEF apparently goes bad here in the phoenix valley in summer, 90 at night to 120 degree days in less then 60 days. My DEF CEL went on after I added DEF to my tank thinking "top it off". Now I only will put 1/4 to 1/2 tank DEF in summer time to make sure its fresh. I always buy DEF at the big truck pumps to make sure the stuff is fresh, plus only 2.79 a gallon. Who knows how long the bottles on the shelf etc.

After I cleared the code myself, I haven't had a problem since.

Ed, is the transmission flash the 18-18-13 one or something new?

 

[crabjoe]

DEF apparently goes bad here in the phoenix valley in summer, 90 at night to 120 degree days in less then 60 days. My DEF CEL went on after I added DEF to my tank thinking "top it off". Now I only will put 1/4 to 1/2 tank DEF in summer time to make sure its fresh. I always buy DEF at the big truck pumps to make sure the stuff is fresh, plus only 2.79 a gallon. Who knows how long the bottles on the shelf etc.

After I cleared the code myself, I haven't had a problem since.

Ed, is the transmission flash the 18-18-13 one or something new?

Did you have your DEF tested to make sure it was bad? If not, it might not have been bad and something else might have caused the light. I'm saying this based on what I've read over on the Dmax forums... Lots of trucks there were getting the DEF light and come to find out, when tested, DEF was still good and it was just sensors that weren't working properly.

 

[Bug Out]

I called the "local" dealer " and thy did not have the required testing equipment...

 

[sag2]

Have you been pulling hard with your truck lately? Sometimes the flow gets low during heavy demand and it will cause the P20EE. Take a look at the inside side of your DEF tank (crawl under) for a small tube coming down off the top. It is a vent tube and sometimes can plug causing a vacuum to be pulled on the tank during high demand. I have not looked specifically on the 13 truck and they may have moved it, but the 12 and older CC had them for sure. If you find it you can run a piece of soft wire (it makes a 90 bend at the top of the tank) up and make sure it's clear. Or blow lightly into the end, it should be clear.

 

[EDankievitch]

It's been 20'- 70's for temp here in NY. Never ran out of DEF was down to 1/4 tank when I added 2.5 gal of Peek blue DEF. That was about 2,000 miles ago. If it was bad DEF it would have shown up a long time ago. The dealer has No clue why it lit the CEL lamp. They cleared the code and the lamp is out, I topped off the DEF tank with MOPAR DEF just to be sure. So far all has been good. Only thing I can figure is that I had backed up a steep driveway and parked nose down. maybe when I hit the throttle it squrted a shot of DEF into the system maybe when I shut down it got the O2 sensor wet? screwing up it's reading? I'm at a loss hope that it was just a fluke thing and not the start of issues....

 

[sag2]

Very few concerns so far. DEF quality and filter/screens getting restricted is the most common. Quite a few people adding DEF to fuel and fuel to DEF. Of course they never tell you they did which makes it even harder to diagnose.

 

[TCDiesel]

If you add DEF to fuel you must shut the vehicle down (do not start at ALL) if you discover that you made the mistake, have the truck tow to someone you can re-cycle the Fuel, MN BLUE here in MN will come to your location (Truck is Tandem) so your vehicle must be parked so they can reach your capless tank fill spout ,they will insert there Vacuum line and suck the tank Try, then tow it to any shop that can drop the tank and remove the rest of the contaminated fuel UNDER NO circumstances start the engine

If the engine was run for any length of time the above must be followed ++++++ the entire fuel system will need emergency removal and I mean like Dealing with someone that has STOP breathing , You MUST remove Tank, Filters ,Lines, Pump, HP lines, Injectors, have the lines liquid cleaned, the Pump must be Bench cleaned (Calibrating fluid) the same for the injectors, everything must be cleaned ASAP my guess you have less then 2HRS before the fluid (depending on amount of DEF added to the Fuel) corrodes the entire system. Most Insurance will cover this, but don't count on it.

 

[Bug Out]

EDankievitch, as I suspected the dealer and service guy I was working with on my 2013 will not return my calls.(somehow or another I must have peed in his bowl of Cherrios) Can you tell me if the flash for the transmission was something new as in the last 30 days, or is it the one that came out in June?

Thanks Ed

 

[EDankievitch]

Sorry I don't know what the re-flash number is or when it was released.

 

[Bug Out]

Thanks. Appreciate it

 

[EDankievitch]

Ok, so here we go again. I've got about 1800 miles since my dealer visit and my CEL light is back on. Same P20EE code. The shop guy says drive it for now we'll see you on Jan 6th at 0730 and figure this out. The truck is running good, though when it was in the teens the other day the heat wasn't all that warm. Putting the winter cover on helped. But I did notice that this engine runs much cooler than my 2012 or the 2005 did. The older trucks ran 195-205 this 13 truck runs 185-190. I'm guessin they are using a cooler "t" stat? I'm thinkin that I might look into the heated seat kits from Geno's.
Sag2 in a reply above you said something about a filter screen on the DEF system, where is it? is it clean able should I keep one on the shelf and change it from time to time?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

That code means "P20EE-SCR NOx CATALYST EFFICIENCY BELOW THRESHOLD - BANK 1" sag2 knows more about this issue than anyone else here, I believe.

 

[crabjoe]

this 13 truck runs 185-190. I'm guessin they are using a cooler "t" stat?

I don't know what t-stat it has, but my '14 always shows 190-195, once it's up to temp.

 

[sag2]

There was a new flash for a false MIL for this code issued a couple days after your first post. I'm not clear if your dealer flashed your truck or not. If not have them flash it first and see what happens.
There are several filters and screens in the system. There are two screens (inlet and outlet) in the pump module and they can be cleaned with fresh water and shop air. There is a filter at the bottom of the pump module and it can be cleaned with fresh water and shop air if it is plugged with crystalized DEF. If contaminated it must be replaced. The bad news is the cost is a little over $1100.00, the good news is for that price it comes with a free pump and level unit!
Then there is a screen in the pump module quick disconnect fitting. From outside the truck this would be the left fitting on the doser module. The middle quick disconnect fitting has a screen and .020 orifice that acts like a pressure regulator for the system. The right hand fitting does not have a screen. All the screens can be cleaned with fresh water and shop air.
There is a doser flow test the dealer should run as part of the P20EE fault. The spec says 85-115 ml in 6 minutes, but it really needs to be closer to 100-115 ml if you tow or work the truck hard.

 

[EDankievitch]

Thanks Sag2. I'm still under warranty so I'm not sweating it just yet. But the ding and the lamp being on is quite annoying. If I get a chance I might just check that one filter on the doser just to see if it's got crud in it. Now I just have to figure out where it is...lol

 

[EDankievitch]

So I finally get into the dealer today, They can't find anything wrong nor did they do a flow test. The Tec (not the normal guy I deal with) said that he put in a case email to Ram about my issue and is waiting for their reply before they do anything. On the other hand the CEL lamp has been out since I cleared it. One day I'll down load the Shop Manual and get comfortable with it then get under the truck Right now it's too cold to be crawling on the ground.