is this injector sticking open?

[nikwave]

i noticed idle is not smooth,when in neutral o park if i press the accelerator for a second,rpm's go up fine but when i let go the pedal rpm's stay up for a second and then come down in steps.last month i changed the apps sensor and when i was finish,i test the truck and this symptom was not there.should i try "seafoam" cleaner in the fuel?

 

[sag2]

That is a really good indication it is mechanically sticking open. You better get them cleaned/tested/replaced before you melt a piston.

 

[CKelley1]

the injector is absolutely not sticking open. seafoam does nothing and there does not appear to be anything wrong with your truck. you do need to carry a bypass hose with you so when that pos airdog fails you can bypass it and go on down the road.

 

[cerberusiam]

Maybe not sticking open, but, enough wear they are not shutting off the fuel fast enough, or maybe there is enough build up the seating of the pintle is slow, or the pintle seat is etched enough fuel is seeping even when closed. There are several reasons fo the choppy idle and step rev down.

The SeaFoam should help with cleaning, won't help with wear induced problems. At 160k you are in the range of the older injectors showing problems. If the idle does not smooth out after a cleaning probably should consider new injectors.

You did take the Smarty off and try the de-rev trick, right? It can and will cause a step de-rev.

Also, when you do the de-rev test hold at a set rpm for 5-10 seconds to let the fuel system settle before lifting off the throttle or the results are frequently skewed.

 

[GCroyle]

Maybe related, should you be proactive and replace (what part(s) at a certain mileage range or wait for 1st symptoms? I'm at about 170K no symptoms to report.

 

[cerberusiam]

Maybe related, should you be proactive and replace (what part(s) at a certain mileage range or wait for 1st symptoms? I'm at about 170K no symptoms to report.

There is no hard and fast rule for mileage and really the only symptoms that are clearly indicative are white smoke at any time, exessive grey haze under acceleration, or black smoke all the time under acceleration.

A rough idle could just be an imbalance from wear over time and the injector is still performing within spec. What to replace is very subjective, what to replace is the compelte injector.

 

[nikwave]

the injector is absolutely not sticking open. seafoam does nothing and there does not appear to be anything wrong with your truck. you do need to carry a bypass hose with you so when that pos airdog fails you can bypass it and go on down the road.

is that bad the airdog pump?my oem pump fail after 6 months and lifting the bed by myself without a hoist was not fun.i had to put the pump somewhere else.is the fass pump more reliable?

 

[cerberusiam]

is that bad the airdog pump?my oem pump fail after 6 months and lifting the bed by myself without a hoist was not fun.i had to put the pump somewhere else. is the fass pump more reliable?

If you bought the AD within the last year it has the potential for being a problem. The design and patent was sold to an investment group that is said to be using diabled workers and soem questionable QC for assembly. The quality has slipped. The FASS is a better quality unit at this time and they seem to have solved the problems with their electric motor issues. Even then, the AD will last if it was assembled correctly.

Any extenral pump with a electric motor is suspect because of the conditions it runs in. Some attention to how much the pump itslef is subjected to raod debris and environment will always help.

A set of dal pumps with brushless motors is better from a longevity perspective but you then have to add the filters and fuel heater plus you loose the fuel polishing effect at the tank and the entrained air removal. It is a matter of functionality versus potential longevity at that point.

With both the AD and FASS you should not need to bypass them if motro quits. The CP-3 will draw thru them as long as it does not loose prime. It may not draw enough fuel to work in bigh load conditions without some power loss but it will get you back to civilization if needed. If you want a fail safe the a ball valve before and after the FASS\AD willow to cut in a temp pump circuit with rubber lines and a cheaper inline pump you can carry in the boony box.

 

[nikwave]

If you bought the AD within the last year it has the potential for being a problem. The design and patent was sold to an investment group that is said to be using diabled workers and soem questionable QC for assembly. The quality has slipped. The FASS is a better quality unit at this time and they seem to have solved the problems with their electric motor issues. Even then, the AD will last if it was assembled correctly.

Any extenral pump with a electric motor is suspect because of the conditions it runs in. Some attention to how much the pump itslef is subjected to raod debris and environment will always help.

A set of dal pumps with brushless motors is better from a longevity perspective but you then have to add the filters and fuel heater plus you loose the fuel polishing effect at the tank and the entrained air removal. It is a matter of functionality versus potential longevity at that point.

With both the AD and FASS you should not need to bypass them if motro quits. The CP-3 will draw thru them as long as it does not loose prime. It may not draw enough fuel to work in bigh load conditions without some power loss but it will get you back to civilization if needed. If you want a fail safe the a ball valve before and after the FASS\AD willow to cut in a temp pump circuit with rubber lines and a cheaper inline pump you can carry in the boony box.

i just put the smarty back to stock and the step dowm rpm's are still there,i even test on setting # 3(performance) and it feels like it was doing it but less,or at least not worse.
i have a case of amsoil "diesel concentrate" cleaner,should i use it since i already have it?
yes i bought the airdog this year so im a candidate. is there a better pump than fass/airdog that i didnt see?

 

[cerberusiam]

If you want something that incorporates the pump, filters, air removal, and heater in 1 package there is no alternate solution. You would have to use a pump and seperate filter bases to accomplish what the FAS\AD does in one package.

In your location the fuel heater is probably not needed, but, a water seperator would be a huge benefit. Is your fuel shipped in or are there refineries there to produce the refined products from crude? The further the fuel has to travel increases the likelihood of contamination that requires better filtration, multi-pass preferably.

Since you already have the Amsoil I would fill the filter with it and let run thru the system and soak for a day plus dose your existing fuel heavy with it. Run out that tank of fuel and see what happens.

 

[CKelley1]

the fass is suppose to have a built in check valve so you do not need the bypass hose the ad does not. 90% of the time the airdog fails midway where the cp3 can not pull through it the same with the raptor. get a fuelab. the cp3 is rated full output and life at MINUS 5 psi and +20. the common rail will only blow black smoke with any type sticking open or dribble. if it sticks shut it can only miss, no smoke at all. the only way in a cr that you can have your symptoms is for a cylinder to have low compression. if a pushrod on the intake side gets bent or broke or cam lobe problem or tappet nut backing off it can cause what you have but 9 times out of teen it is a broke ring. the piston does not have enough air to raise the temp high enough to burn the fuel properly thus the white smoke and unburned fuel. there is a way to extend the life of the airdog by about two time and you can add the very best filter setup ever for $90 both are kind of long but if you want you can pm me on either or both.

 

[nikwave]

If you want something that incorporates the pump, filters, air removal, and heater in 1 package there is no alternate solution. You would have to use a pump and seperate filter bases to accomplish what the FAS\AD does in one package.

In your location the fuel heater is probably not needed, but, a water seperator would be a huge benefit. Is your fuel shipped in or are there refineries there to produce the refined products from crude? The further the fuel has to travel increases the likelihood of contamination that requires better filtration, multi-pass preferably.

Since you already have the Amsoil I would fill the filter with it and let run thru the system and soak for a day plus dose your existing fuel heavy with it. Run out that tank of fuel and see what happens.

there are no refineries on the island,except for biodiesel,which i would like to hear your opinion.
there is no dodge dealer on the island,i dont know any diesel shop that i can trust.last month my truck stall close to the "ex dodge dealer" so i left the truck there,they changed the fuel control actuator for $700.
last week i got a recall from dodge and i call the number and was told to go to the Ford dealer.
any diesel mechanic looking to open a "diesel performance shop" please send him to Maui.

 

[cerberusiam]

The recall is probably for the steering. If you stil have the y-type steering that was OE it is not part of the recall. If you upgraded to the t-type for the 08.5+ then you may qualify for new parts. Nobody seems sure whne they changed the steering to not allow installing it wrong and breaking tie rods so bets to have it checked if possible. Good luck on getting parts as it sounds like they are in short supply and individual dealers can only do so many per month.

Bio is usable if it is prepper correctly and kept clean. It just has a lot better chnace of contamination from water and the refining process has to pull enouhg of the crud out of to stop any kind of deposits. You can probably safely do B50 mix but a lot depends on the refining and storage of it. In these close toerance CR systems it is a risk and you have to balance that with dino fuel availability.

Diesel performance shop on Maui sounds like a dream career. Not sure you have enough vehicles to support it though, unless people are will to ferry from other islands. LOL! Would probably end up working on gassers to pay the bills.


Are you having any other symptoms like white smoke, excessive grey smoke under hard throttle, long cranking times, hard starting?

 

[nikwave]

The recall is probably for the steering. If you stil have the y-type steering that was OE it is not part of the recall. If you upgraded to the t-type for the 08.5+ then you may qualify for new parts. Nobody seems sure whne they changed the steering to not allow installing it wrong and breaking tie rods so bets to have it checked if possible. Good luck on getting parts as it sounds like they are in short supply and individual dealers can only do so many per month.

Bio is usable if it is prepper correctly and kept clean. It just has a lot better chnace of contamination from water and the refining process has to pull enouhg of the crud out of to stop any kind of deposits. You can probably safely do B50 mix but a lot depends on the refining and storage of it. In these close toerance CR systems it is a risk and you have to balance that with dino fuel availability.

Diesel performance shop on Maui sounds like a dream career. Not sure you have enough vehicles to support it though, unless people are will to ferry from other islands. LOL! Would probably end up working on gassers to pay the bills.


Are you having any other symptoms like white smoke, excessive grey smoke under hard throttle, long cranking times, hard starting?

no smoke that i noticed,i dont think i ever floored it though.i still have the oem exhaust,with the catalytic thing i guess.the only other thing i can think of is a light ticking noise between 1900-2000 rpm.i going to use it this week on "stock" program,check the smoke,pour some injector cleaner and see what happens.
the front end was upgraded by me so im gonna visit the Ford dealer soon to have it checked.
in 2001 i flew to Iowa to buy my first cummins from a TDR member,not many diesels back then but nowadays theres a bunch.no shop will charge less that $120 an hour to fix a diesel.

 

[cerberusiam]

That ticking noise is a good indication of an injector problem, especially if it is new. When the injectors get noisy it means they have wear in the pintle guides which means the pintle does not always seat squarely in the nozzle. The tick is usually it popping into the seat. The rough idle is the imbalance is usally cause by the slight extra fueling whne the pintles don't all seat correctly. If you could get a cylinder contribution test and a cylinder kill test with rpm drop that might help narrow it down to a specific cylinder.

 

[nikwave]

That ticking noise is a good indication of an injector problem, especially if it is new. When the injectors get noisy it means they have wear in the pintle guides which means the pintle does not always seat squarely in the nozzle. The tick is usually it popping into the seat. The rough idle is the imbalance is usally cause by the slight extra fueling whne the pintles don't all seat correctly. If you could get a cylinder contribution test and a cylinder kill test with rpm drop that might help narrow it down to a specific cylinder.

i bought the truck with 150000 miles on it and since then i heard that light ticking noise.is this something i have to do right away or could i use it till i gets really bad?

 

[cerberusiam]

If you are not seeing white smoke, excessive grey smoke, a mileage drop, hard starts, etc, it is probably fine to drive. I would make sure I used additives for cetane and lube and just monitor it. I started getting much the same symptoms at around 170k and drove it another 40k with no issues until I changed injectors. After the injector swap it was noticeable how much quieter the engine was due to how noisy the injectors had gotten. It doesn't seem serious enough to warrant immediate attention just a wait and watch condition, IMO.

It seems once the mileage gets over 150k it is time to start paying closer attention. You might go another +100k with no issues, or, start it tomorrow and have a dead cylinder and clouds of white smoke. My experience has been a steady diet of Power Service and 2 stroke oil will help keeps things in check. Others have not been so lucky, with and without additives. Every truck and situation can be different.

 

[nikwave]

If you are not seeing white smoke, excessive grey smoke, a mileage drop, hard starts, etc, it is probably fine to drive. I would make sure I used additives for cetane and lube and just monitor it. I started getting much the same symptoms at around 170k and drove it another 40k with no issues until I changed injectors. After the injector swap it was noticeable how much quieter the engine was due to how noisy the injectors had gotten. It doesn't seem serious enough to warrant immediate attention just a wait and watch condition, IMO.

It seems once the mileage gets over 150k it is time to start paying closer attention. You might go another +100k with no issues, or, start it tomorrow and have a dead cylinder and clouds of white smoke. My experience has been a steady diet of Power Service and 2 stroke oil will help keeps things in check. Others have not been so lucky, with and without additives. Every truck and situation can be different.

thanks so much for your advice Cerberusiam,just to keep in file,where is a good place to get injectors,i know every online diesel shop has them but i also know not everyone sells the good bosch ones.

 

[cerberusiam]

Diesel Auto Power has about the widest selection of injectors around and the prices are decent. Advise getting NEW Bosch, not the remans they sometimes call new.