48re - problem with TC lockup in 3rd and OD

[IdahoMan]

My 48re transmission began failing to go into normal lockup when in tow/haul 3rd and OD while on a trip towing a 22' trailer. No problems for most of the trip and the first time this has happened. Sometimes I could get it to lockup by shifting tow/haul on and off and sometimes by pulsing the throttle a few times. It gradually (over the course of three days) became more difficult to get it to lockup while in OD. I could at times get it into lockup while in tow/haul so I left it there for as long as I could. Over the course of three days it became progressively more difficult to achieve lockup in either tow/haul or OD.



Fluid and filter changed as appropriate. Bands adjusted each oil change. 145,000 miles on the truck. TransGo shift kit installed more than 100,000 ago with no issues, trans otherwise stock.



Any ideas?



Thanks, Kevin

 

[JJPage]

If you had an 03 with the bellcrank mounted APPS, I would suggest replacing. Your 04. 5 has the newer version APPS, I believe under the driver's side battery. It could also be the OD lockup solenoid, these issues are hard to diagnose on the forums. Have patience, cerb will see this sooner or later and will help out, in the meantime, here's a bump!

 

[IdahoMan]

Thanks, I was hoping he would

 

[cerberusiam]

Check for codes with a Smarty or other reader and look for DTC's with TCC solenoid perofrmance or failure errors. If your lucky the solenoid is failing.



Next guess would be TC, time to visit ITW and order a decent billet cover TC. Stock TC? Sometimes you get lucky and they last for a while, other times the enhanced pressure will blow the TC clutch or warp the piston. Depends on hard you use it. Really needs changed anyway as hard use will start loosening the flex plate bolts and walking them if you use it as intended.



Last thing would be ECU failing to demand lockup or the circuit bad. That will take a scanner capable of checking ECU functions and the actuan sense circuit. If you want to rule out ECU issues add a mystery lockup switch and bypass the ECU controls. If it still doesn't work it is either solenoid or TC.

 

[IdahoMan]

Thanks for the reply, I will check the items mentioned. When I could get it to lockup during this issue it would stay there, ie, no in and out of lockup. The problem seemed to be just getting it to lockup in the first place.



I don't use it very hard. Tow to from Calif to Idaho a couple of times a year for the last six years or so. Most of the tow mileage is in OD with 18' to 22' trailers at 62-65mph although RPM is a little low due to the 3. 73.



Kevin

 

[IdahoMan]

Checked and found no DTC's. I think I will replace the Governor Pressure Solenoid with the Borg Warner unit, Governor Pressure Transducer, and Overdrive & Lock-Up (TCC) Solenoid and see if the issue goes away. If no change then I will persue the TC upgrade, which is a good idea anyway.



Kevin

 

[IdahoMan]

I just had the CEL and it was the P1740 code, TCC Solenoid Performance error, and the transmission has not been going into lockup at all during a recent drive. I have the Governor Pressure Solenoid, Governor Pressure Transducer, and Overdrive & Lock-Up (TCC) Solenoid in hand now but have not installed them yet. Will report back when I do with the results.

Kevin

 

[JJPage]

For sure, let us know when new parts are installed.

 

[IdahoMan]

Update: Yesterday I was finally able to change the following:

Governor Pressure Solenoid
Governor Pressure Transducer
Overdrive & Lock-Up (TCC) Solenoid
Adjusted front and rear bands
New fluid and filter

Cleared the DTC's and went for a drive. Result: No change. Transmission still won't go into lockup. No DTC's after the test drive. Transmission functions normally otherwise. Going for a drive again this morning but don't expect the results to be any different. I had limited driving it from the time of first post till I could replace the parts as a precaution.

Question: If the TC lockup clutch fails what form does it take? Can it just quit working? See earlier post for the symptons I had leading to this point.


I think now it is time to take it to a tranmission shop for further diagnosis.

 

[JJPage]

Not sure how long your test drive was, but lockup is delayed until the trans starts to reach operating temp. Mine will not normally lockup this time of year until I drive at least 5-6 miles.

 

[Wingate]

ive been noticing similar symptoms from my 06 model. Just seems that when towing heavy, shes staying in 3 longer than used to. There have been a few times that I jsut ended up feathering the throttle a little and in it went. Once in, its not an issue. Maybe mine is just the solenoid.

 

[SnoKing]

What did the pan and magnet look like. Did you take a picture? Chris

 

[cerberusiam]

Kevin where are you located?

Next step would be verify the solenoid and TC are functional by adding a lockup switch. That wil tell you where to go next.

If you have somebody a scanner that can see the PIDS it will tell you if the ECU is demanding lockup or not. More info to determine next steps.

Normally when the solenoid fails it codes. Whne the apply piston or the clutch in the TC fails there is just no lockup and no codes.

 

[JJPage]

Here is a link to a Cummins Forum thread with pictures, on how to install lockup switches. I do not use the scotch-loc type connections, but probably ok inside the cab...
http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...5-3rd-gen-mystery-switch-diy-works-great.html

 

[IdahoMan]

All,
Thanks for the replies. On a test drive today it set the DTC P1740 again. I was in Tow/Haul climbing a grade at ~55mph.

The pan was free of debris. The magnet had the fuzz on it like fine graphite the I have seen at other oil changes.


Here is some more detailed info on the code I found on another site: P1740

SYMPTOM
P1740-TCC O/D SOL PERFORMANCE

WHEN MONITORED
The Torque Convertor Clutch (TCC) and Overdrive Clutch (O/D) will be tested each time the PCM requests TCC engagement in 3rd gear and O/D.

SET CONDITION
The code will set if the expected RPM drop is not achieved while attempting to engage TCC or O/D. This indicates a malfunctioning torque convertor or overdrive clutch.

POSSIBLE CAUSES


Camshaft DTC Present
Engine RPM DTC present
Fuel level low
Misfire DTC present
Output speed DTC present
P1765 DTC present
Park/neutral DTC present
PTO engaged (if equipped)
Torque converter clutch DTC present
TPS DTC present
Transfer case in low range (if equipped)
Transmission relay DTC present
Transmission temperature too cold
Intermittent
Check transmission fluid-debris
Check transmission fluid-stall
3-4 shift solenoid
Oil pan contains excessive debris
Shaft or seal damage
TCC solenoid
Torque converter


I suspect the code is tripped due to the lack of RPM drop at this point. As mentioned in a previous post the trans temp may have not been high enough on my previous test drive. Today I was able to keep the load on it well after it should have locked and up popped the code.

Cerb, I am in the southern California high desert near Palmdale/Lancaster. I plan to call Gorend Transmission tomorrow to see if they have a partner shop near me. Bellflower Transmission (in Bellflower, nearer to LA) was also recommended. Sounds like they have the tools to monitor the trans signals.

Kevin

 

[SnoKing]

So when the TC does lock up does it seem firm? I think your TC is toast. Do the lockup switch test. Chris

 

[IdahoMan]

So when the TC does lock up does it seem firm? I think your TC is toast. Do the lockup switch test. Chris

The TC does not lock up anymore. See my first post for more on the history of intermittent to no lockup. It was gradual over three days.
I may try the switch if I don't get to a shop first. I suspect it is time for upgrades.

Kevin

 

[SnoKing]

Sounds like time for a billet triple disc and fresh transmission rebuild.

 

[Hunters Machine]

I have an 07 dodge 3500 4x4 dually that has the same Issues. Did you figure out what the problem was?

 

[IdahoMan]

Howdy,

In my case, a shuttle in the valve body was stuck at one end of the throw for some reason. The shop replaced it with a good used when the trans was rebuilt and I have had no problems since.

Kevin