transmission Fluid Line Leak - Less Than 2200 Miles on New Truck!

[EDankievitch]

Wow it pays to know someone

 

[JLandry]

UPDATE No. 8 or "An Exercise in Patience"

We're back... but without our truck! We're still not going anywhere.

I'm going to be as diplomatic as possible about this and keep it short. I'm trying to remain calm as I type this.

When we got there, and I carefully checked their work, quite frankly I didn't like the looks of the "fix" they'd performed... and... IT WAS LEAKING JUST AS MUCH AS WHEN WE DROPPED OFF THE TRUCK LAST WEEK! In other words, they didn't really fix it AND they apparently didn't bother to check their work afterwards.

I don't feel comfortable with the idea of letting them try to patch up the leaking line again. Because they assured me the cooling lines are still coming (they said they have a UPS tracking number), I've decided to just wait until the actual parts come in so they just replace the leaking line on my truck. I was told the parts are supposed to arrive Thursday (barring any unforeseen problems with the UPS shipment of course).

Now I just hope they can correctly install the new lines.

On the bright side, they did top off the transmission with the correct ATF. I verified that by checking the ATF part number on the repair order.

Sigh.

John L.

 

[Ram4Sam]

Get the tracking number and google it.......

Sam

 

[Wingate]

I'd still build a line.

 

[JLandry]

I'd still build a line.

I hear ya, but that's not practical under the circumstances: We're far away from home, I have limited tools, no place to work on it, and the truck is now 22 miles away from our travel trailer.

Also, I don't want to become my "own warranty station" on this truck yet. I really need to let Chrysler fix this problem to preserve the warranty.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

John L.

 

[SnoKing]

That is strange, if they have the part coming, why did they try to bandaid it??????? Chris

 

[JLandry]

That is strange, if they have the part coming, why did they try to bandaid it???????

Due to the uncertainty surrounding when we'd get a set of replacement transmission cooling lines, Joe Donnelly asked his contact at Chrysler to intervene to get us back on the road faster. I also called Chrysler customer assistance for help in making sure the dealer was getting all the support they needed to get the replacement part.

Because of our circumstance being stranded so far away from home, someone at Chrysler agreed it would be OK to allow the dealership to perform a bandaid repair on the line instead of having to wait for the replacement to come in. The dealer called me with this news this morning, but I still had the option of going either way. Because we still had no idea exactly when the replacement parts would arrive, I decided to go for the bandaid repair. I opted for the certainty of getting back on the road over a part replacement.

After seeing the dealer's work this afternoon (scared me) and since the part availability was clarified (I was told it'll arrive Thursday), I changed my mind and now I'd rather opt for a proper replacement part over the speed of a bandaid fix.

I should mention it's likely someone within Chrysler intervened on our behalf to make sure the parts got released from another dealer and shipped quickly. Remember, there are at least 8 backorders with Chrysler for this part and only 3 located in dealer inventory. In theory I should've gone to the back of the line, so I'm grateful for any intervention going on behind the scenes on my behalf.

Things could be A LOT worse!

John L.

 

[sag2]

I'm not sure how they could have messed up the repair. You cut the line, add a small flare to keep the hose from blowing off and add screw clamps. It is done every day in many different applications. Sorry it didn't work out. Sounded like a plan was coming together.

 

[sag2]

Tonight there is only one showing in dealer inventory so looks like yours is probably coming D2D or dealer to dealer. Lucky your dealer ordered it on special handling, most order it on a daily order. There is only one other order in the country for the part, it also is special handling but the order quantity is 8. I have to assume it is a fleet order or something someone is building.

 

[mwilson]

It is huge that RAM authorized a temporary repair even thought it did not work out. As sag says it should not have been that difficult to repair.

Someone was not on the ball in parts, seems strange that several people here nailed the correct part number on this forum but it required two attempts at the dealership...but it is difficult to find good parts people nowadays. That's why us older guys are plenty busy.......

 

[mwilson]

I have a spare minute so I will offer my opinion as to the lack of avalable hoses nationwide for those that are wondering how this can happen.

I have worked at a dealership for 18 years and think that I finally have an idea of how this all works....We'll see....

My working knowledge is with Freightliner (now Daimler) but I think the same principles apply.

RAM decides to build 1,000 Aisin equipped 3/4 ton trucks at the Saltillo facility. Orders for outsourced parts go out to the various vendors involved who have already settled on pricing and a production window for these parts.
Daimler has "Planners" and I assume that RAM does as well...these people are responsible for forecasting the demand and the order points for replacement and production parts.

RAM wants enough parts to assemble the 1,000 trucks. These are production parts, many times these parts carry a different part number than dealer parts.

RAM also wants replacement parts in the Parts Distribution Centers, they may also require each dealer to stock many of those parts.

So for rough figuring the "Planner" for this particular hose looks at the data, decides to order 1,000 hoses for production and let's say 25 for the replacement market as the hose should have a fairly long lifespan and no more than 15 should get wrecked and require replacement in this current year. As the trucks age the replacement parts levels will increase.

He places that order months in advance as the vendor does not only make RAM hoses, he also builds hoses for everybody else and might only shift his dies over to the RAM hose for a two day production run.

Johnny, who works at that vendor had a bad weekend and is not really at the top of his game that day sets the crimp pressure too low on the hose maker. He whacks out several before deciding that he needs to reset the machine. Says nothing because he does not want to get into trouble again this month.......

Those several hoses go out the door along with the rest of the shipment. They get used in production, a time bomb waiting to go off.

Now a few months later the bad hoses begin to fail. The 25 replacement hoses that went into the PDC's now number 0 as crash jobs and dealer orders have depleted the stock. There is not enough demand yet for the hose to be auto-ordered for PDC stock as it is still a very new part.

Nobody knows yet that there is an issue, only when the warranty claims start rolling in does the red flag go up. Once the flag does go up someone has to contact the planner who contacts the vendor...

"We need hoses right now!!" The vendor replies "I am in the middle of a run for GM, I can work you in next Thursday. That's the best that I can do and I will not add a shift or pay overtime to do this as you beat me to death on the price!!'

It is the same as trying to turn the Titanic when the iceberg is spotted....it just won't happen that fast.........

JMHO.....

 

[Bill Stockard]

I have a spare minute so I will offer my opinion as to the lack of avalable hoses nationwide for those that are wondering how this can happen.

I have worked at a dealership for 18 years and think that I finally have an idea of how this all works....We'll see....

My working knowledge is with Freightliner (now Daimler) but I think the same principles apply.

RAM decides to build 1,000 Aisin equipped 3/4 ton trucks at the Saltillo facility. Orders for outsourced parts go out to the various vendors involved who have already settled on pricing and a production window for these parts.
Daimler has "Planners"...these people are responsible for forecasting the demand and the order points for replacement and production parts.

Daimler wants enough parts to assemble the 1,000 trucks. These are production parts, many times these parts carry a different part number than dealer parts.

Daimler also wants replacement parts in the Parts Distribution Centers, they may also require each dealer to stock many of those parts.

So for rough figuring the "Planner" for this particular hose looks at the data, decides to order 1,000 hoses for production and let's say 25 for the replacement market as the hose should have a fairly long lifespan and no more than 15 should get wrecked and require replacement in this current year. As the trucks age the replacement parts levels will increase.

He places that order months in advance as the vendor does not only make RAM hoses, he also builds hoses for everybody else and might only shift his dies over to the RAM hose for a two day production run.

Johnny, who works at that vendor had a bad weekend and is not really at the top of his game that day sets the crimp pressure too low on the hose maker. He whacks out several before deciding that he needs to reset the machine. Says nothing because he does not want to get into trouble again this month.......

Those several hoses go out the door along with the rest of the shipment. They get used in production, a time bomb waiting to go off.

Now a few months later the bad hoses begin to fail. The 25 replacement hoses that went into the PDC's now number 0 as crash jobs and dealer orders have depleted the stock. There is not enough demand yet for the hose to be auto-ordered for PDC stock as it is still a very new part.

Nobody knows yet that there is an issue, only when the warranty claims start rolling in does the red flag go up. Once the flag does go up someone has to contact the planner who contacts the vendor...

"We need hoses right now!!" The vendor replies "I am in the middle of a run for GM, I can work you in next Thursday. That's the best that I can do and I will not add a shift or pay overtime to do this as you beat me to death on the price!!'

It is the same as trying to turn the Titanic when the iceberg is spotted....it just won't happen that fast.........

JMHO.....

Mike,

A very good explanation. I'll bet you are very close to how it works. It's amazing how I, with many years with a different manufacturer in the same market, have witnessed and experienced much of the same. We used to say that the "Planner" threw darts at a board to determine how many replacement parts were needed in the parts distribution system.

Bill

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

A key point here is that Ram does not build everything in-house. Virtually everything for Ram as well as other truck mfg. is outsourced. That is the only way to do it, and has been for decades. The way we decide which company is doing the best job is a combination of how well they do control the quality of the parts they use, design, materials, and workmanship, and then how well they provide customer service when a problem is encountered. Unfortunately, there again the "third party" meaning the dealer comes in. Chrysler provides extensive training, and technical advisors but many dealers do not use these resources as well as we would wish. Chrysler also has the Academy to train sales personnel in all the features of the vehicles, but again many dealers and sales personnel "wing it" and guess instead of knowing.

Consider my new Ram. The entire drivetrain was outsourced. Cummins engine, Aisin transmission, American axles, Firestone tires, etc. Ram has a "Powertrain Integration Manager" who has done a terrific job in putting all that together for us, and has selected the best stuff available, in my opinion. If one of the vendors slips, eventually Ram can apply influence, or financial incentives for them to regain the level of quality that is needed. It just doesn't happen immediately, so everyone hopes there is no slip. Certainly the vendors don't want to lose business either. Remember the change from Dana-Spicer to American Axles for 2003? I don't know all that happened there. Cost probably was one factor, quality and design other factors. I do know that I have been happy with the differentials in my 2004 and now my 2013, and that Danas had a few issues in the past, such as minimal preload on the carrier bearings.

 

[JLandry]

I concur Mike.

I spent 25 years as a Buyer, a Planner, and Purchase Manager in the manufacturing sector before retiring last year, so I'm sympathetic as to how difficult it can be to balance everyone's conflicting needs. Purchasing professionals often get caught in the middle and can't make everyone happy.

The fact that there's a current nationwide shortage of these particular transmission cooling lines doesn't surprise me under the circumstances (newish model truck, lack of history, planning guesswork, etc.). That doesn't make this any less stressful for those of us in need, but I'm not angry about it.

My sister in Dallas wanted to know why someone from Chrysler can't just get a replacement part for our truck off the assembly line in Saltillo, MX. I explained to her that's not auto manufacturing works... you can't just walk in to a plant and steal parts off an assembly line.

John L.

 

[JLandry]

Tonight there is only one showing in dealer inventory so looks like yours is probably coming D2D or dealer to dealer. Lucky your dealer ordered it on special handling, most order it on a daily order. There is only one other order in the country for the part, it also is special handling but the order quantity is 8. I have to assume it is a fleet order or something someone is building.

Thanks for the update sag2.

I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now.

John L.

 

[JLandry]

I'm not sure how they could have messed up the repair. You cut the line, add a small flare to keep the hose from blowing off and add screw clamps. It is done every day in many different applications. Sorry it didn't work out. Sounded like a plan was coming together.

It was a good plan with great support from Chrysler, but unfortunately it was poorly executed by the repairing dealer. That's why I decided it to fall back to the original plan and get a replacement part installed instead.

Regarding the attempted repair, this is what happened:

The line was leaking at the junction between the rubber hose and the metal crimp at location "1" in the attached illustration. The mechanic instead cut out the entire crimp connection at location "2" then apparently stretched the rubber flex hose upward over the now missing crimp and secured it with 4 small fuel hose clamps. This left the original leak intact at location "1" and pulled the flex hose straight enough so that now it was now rubbing on the side of the alternator!

Since I have thousands of miles to go before I'd be able to get the line replaced at a dealer near home, the rubbing on the alternator made me very uncomfortable. Obviously I could've put something around the rubber line to protect it from rubbing through, but it was a moot point with the original leak not fixed.

Best regards,

John L.

 

[mwilson]

Now that I have inserted RAM where it should have been above I want to add this....were this a Daimler product the vendor would be held accountable for the warranty carnage if it was indeed their fault.

 

[mwilson]

To drift off topic for a minute I want to share something that I learned about Daimler Trucks North America several years ago....

Had a customer destroy a tilt steering wheel assembly. Ordered one truck down. Nothing but crickets for several days. Started raising hell about it. This was a TRW unit BTW.

I got a call that went like this..."The reason that your column assembly has not shipped yet is that fact that the Mt Holly truck plant is involved in week long rolling plant shutdowns, and they are down this week". "That assembly is built at the truck plant, not at a TRW facility". This was back when truck orders and sales were down across the country.

I had no idea that some components are put together at the plant. Pretty cool deal when you think about it. Not so good if the plant is down though........

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The dealer should have sent the hose assembly to a high-pressure hose shop for rebuilding. They could use a new piece of correct hose and new crimped ends of the correct style and strength. Such a repair would have been as good as new.

 

[JLandry]

The dealer should have sent the hose assembly to a high-pressure hose shop for rebuilding. They could use a new piece of correct hose and new crimped ends of the correct style and strength. Such a repair would have been as good as new.

Exactly, and that's what I was hoping for.

John L.