Frustrated New Owner.. Help!

[rscurtis]

It may be useful to identify the frequency before trying to solve a vibration problem. OOB or OOR tires will be very low frequency. An OOB driveline in this case will have a frequency about 3.5 times higher than the tire vibration. If it is caused by driveline angles (which I seriously doubt), that will occur twice per revolution of the DS, so it will have 7 times the frequency of a tire problem. A DL angle problem is normally felt at takeoff under load, and quickly disappears.

Were it my truck, I would put the whole thing on jackstands and run it to the critical speed. Then, remove all the tires and wheel and run it again. That should help to determine if it's tire or driveline related. Running in 4WD could also confirm or clear the front tires as a problem. Since you're not talking about a humming sound or vibrating mirrors, I vote for tires.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Running a truck on jack stands with the tires spinning 65mph is extremely dangerous. I would make sure you have it strapped down extremely well as if it was on a dyno.

 

[gsbrockman]

It comes and goes as you drive down the highway.

Others have stated the same thing; based on your statement above, I highly doubt tires are the problem (or the solution).
I started a poll on another site 09/06/2013......there were site issues where the site crashed, but maybe you can read through it any way.


http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/2...-lt235-80r17-tire-vibration-problem-poll.html

 

[Wingate]

The SM and I had a pretty long conversation yesterday over the phone. What I had hoped would take place has, he and an tech drove to my house and picked the truck up. We both agreed that they should drive it down the Interstate and get a feel for what is going on. Told them to keep it until it was fixed. I do not want them being under pressure to get it fixed in a hurry.

 

[Wingate]

It may be useful to identify the frequency before trying to solve a vibration problem. OOB or OOR tires will be very low frequency. An OOB driveline in this case will have a frequency about 3.5 times higher than the tire vibration. If it is caused by driveline angles (which I seriously doubt), that will occur twice per revolution of the DS, so it will have 7 times the frequency of a tire problem. A DL angle problem is normally felt at takeoff under load, and quickly disappears.

Were it my truck, I would put the whole thing on jackstands and run it to the critical speed. Then, remove all the tires and wheel and run it again. That should help to determine if it's tire or driveline related. Running in 4WD could also confirm or clear the front tires as a problem. Since you're not talking about a humming sound or vibrating mirrors, I vote for tires.

I did not run it to 65mph, but I did let them free spin at idle. Of course, not thinking it would show up there.
I am wondering if I need to throw it on a chassis dyno and spin it up?

 

[Wingate]

Let's think about this logically. Vibration does not occur when accelerating or slowing? Does not matter what gear? Is speed and throttle related?
So just based on that description it would seem that it could be pinion or drive line angle. When you said they road force balanced, what kind of numbers did you get for each tire? Did they match mount them to reduce the number? The only way for sure to pin it down is a vibration analyzer or swap a known good set of wheel and tires. Analyzer is the best bet.

yeah I want to do that. Looking back, I originally test drove a 2013 LL that was mechanically identical to my current truck. I do not know how bad it would have vibrated at 55-65mph, but I know the passenger side seat back was shaking at low speeds. My truck does this as well.
I originally thought pinion angle as well, but I have dropped the 5er on it which I think should have changed my angle and it still does it.
Sorry Sag2, cannot give #s on the balance.

 

[RAM1964]

The guality of the General tires as related to our trucks is lackluster to say the least mine has been shaking, cupping with edge and center wear spots like ya put them on a sander since I bought it now have nitro dura grapplers and poof problem solved, where's QA at in the factory? Now I don't believe it's every tire they make but come on General these are $60k trucks with $50 recaps!!

 

[Wingate]

If I can absolutely verify that the tires are in fact the problem, I have no issue with scrapping them and replacing with BFG's. In reality, what is $1200.00 on a 50K truck that I plan on keeping forever like my 06 model. What I do NOT want to do is basically throw parts at it hoping for a fix with my checkbook carrying the note.
hhmmmm... wait a minute, Anyone know if my factory aluminum 17" wheels from my 06 2500 will bolt to the rear of the dually? If they fit, I could throw the 06 wheels on the rear of the 14 and see if its a wheel/tire issue.

 

[gsbrockman]

Anyone know if my factory aluminum 17" wheels from my 06 2500 will bolt to the rear of the dually? If they fit, I could throw the 06 wheels on the rear of the 14 and see if its a wheel/tire issue.

Most likely the bore centers should be the same.......you'll need to still use the dually lug nuts as the thread size changed around 2012 or so. Given the difference in style of lug nuts, that may not be a great idea, so install at your own risk.

 

[Wingate]

Wanted to update this thread just in case anyone else is experiencing this issue.
Really nothing new to report though. Truck is still at the dealership. Truck is still not fixed. I went by there today to get the B&W 5er hitch out as I feel this is going to be a while. Had to go get an inspection sticker on the old GOAT as its been sitting since mid January. I have spoke with the Service Manager and explained to him that I do not want the truck back until it is fixed. I politely explained that I did not want a phone call asking me to come pick it up and that its "better" or "we think we got it".
Got a survey from "Mother Ram" in my email and sat down and objectively filled it out. Was very honest as I tried to separate the displeasure in the product from the dealerships willingness to help.

 

[Ozymandias]

An out-of-round condition can't be balanced, your tires are 100% balanced but they jump anyway with a flat spot.

 

[Wingate]

I REALLY hope its just a tire issue. I would LOVE for them to call and say they got it figured out and its the tires. I would IMMEDIATELY go to work talking them into a set of BFGs and I pay the difference.
Its gonna be up to them to make that call though.

 

[Regcabguy]

An out-of-round condition can't be balanced, your tires are 100% balanced but they jump anyway with a flat spot.

Yep. My BFG's were Road Forced and zero'd out with the help of 4-11 ozs. of weight. Still vibrated at highway speed. A older tire tech told me "it's the tires". Seller refused to take them back so I sold them on Craigslist and bought Toyos. No more issues.

 

[Wingate]

Yep. My BFG's were Road Forced and zero'd out with the help of 4-11 ozs. of weight. Still vibrated at highway speed. A older tire tech told me "it's the tires". Seller refused to take them back so I sold them on Craigslist and bought Toyos. No more issues.

crap, just when I thought it would be a safe bet to go with BFGs.
I really havent got into the whole "road force" balancing as I believe that if the vehicle and the tire are properly manufactured, a simple spin balance has always served well.
Guess I need to research it. I hope is not like the stupid Nitrogen fad!
My BFGs have always been flawless. But, then again, several of these new trucks have the Generals on them and not experiencing this vibration issue.

 

[Wingate]

ok, so I read the bulletin and then re-read it and got to thinking.
When the guy from work bought his truck, the selling dealer had some aftermarket wheels/tires. He didnt want them and they put some factory takeoffs back on it. Wheels and tires that had been stacked in a service department storage room! No flat spots! MAybe thats why his didnt shake!
hhhmmmmm...

 

[mfurrh55]

Look you bought a new truck, make them fix it and make them foot the bill for anything they have to replace, Don't buy new tires, make them put new tires on it until it quits shaking, or fix whatever else it is that's causing it,Monte

 

[Wingate]

Look you bought a new truck, make them fix it and make them foot the bill for anything they have to replace, Don't buy new tires, make them put new tires on it until it quits shaking, or fix whatever else it is that's causing it,Monte

agreed. if they end up replacing the tires, I would be willing to kick in for a different brand vs the old generals though. Its kinda embarrassing though, all the neighbors and friends ask why old blue is sitting on the carport and where the new truck is. Its a tough pill to tell them its back at the shop AGAIN

 

[Brossjd]

Frustrated

Hello Frustrated,

I have been fighting the exact same thing. My truck is a new 2014, crew cab, 4X4, DRW, Aisin, Long horn with Alcoa wheels.

I have been trying several options to stop the passenger seat paint shaker option. My vibration is exactly as you describe, it comes and goes every 10 or 20 seconds. I also have a bad vibration a 35-40MPH and then again any speed over 65MPH. The truck couldn’t be more smooth at 60MPH. I have tried all the same tests; Loaded heavy, tire pressure, road force, even new tires. Nothing has fixed my truck.

My dealer did try a lot of remedies, but in the end they only reduced the vibration a small amount. I do give them credit for keeping the truck without continually trying to give it back with the typical “We think we might have it”. The service manager drove it repeatedly and called several times telling me, “Yep it still shakes and we don’t know why yet.” In the end I eventually had to take the truck and start using it.#@$%!

In my opinion the vibration has nothing to do with my tires or wheels and here is why:
-First the dealer road force balanced the original equipment. This did help but only about 25% reduction.
-The dealer test drove the truck with a set of Alcoas from another DRW longhorn on the lot. I did not drive the truck that day, but the service manager said it was no better, and put my rims back on.
-At my own cost the dealer swapped my tires for Michelin LTX MS2. Most threads indicated a very good result from swapping tires. So it thought I would foot the bill if it might stop the shaking. This did not help me at all. In fact the truck shook worse with the new tires.
-I had a third party tire shop road force balance the new Michelin tires. The report showed them all very low; I believe they all balanced to less than 10. The guys at this shop took the tire to check rim run out with a dial indicator. I don't have all of the results but i believe the worst rim had less than .004" run out. After the balance, I was back to about the same shaking as the stock tires road forced. The truck still shook very bad.
-I played around indexing the rear duals. I turned the outside tires in ¼ turn increments to the inside tires. This had no effect.
-I tried swapping in the spare in different spots. This had no effect at all.
-I have lowered my rear tire pressure to 35 inside and 40 outside for empty commuting. This did help a very small amount.

I then ordered a set of CentriMatic dynamic road force balancers. This too seemed to help a little bit. These balacners seemed to stop each shack cycle quicker. So the truck would only oscillate two or three shakes then stop. But the very marginal gains at highway speed was far outweighed the crazy annoying “wooshing” sound at low speed. The small bee-bees inside the discs make noise until up to speed. So for now, the CentriMatics are off the truck.

In my opinion the vibration is systematic. The new frame (especially the 3500) is extremely rigid. I believe the vibration comes from a harmonic which is in the drive train. The older trucks had enough elasticity to dampen the oscillations. Now the very smallest bump in the road causes the truck to ring like a toning fork. My 97 Ram 3500 DRW 4X4 road way better. So for sure there is room for improvement.

My next step is trying a set of Sulastic rear spring shackles.

I have read soooo many complaints about this. Hopefully someone will hit on the culprit, and we will get to enjoy our $70K trucks!

Any way, for now- My wife still loves riding the passenger seat if you know what I mean!!!!!!:--)

 

[Wingate]

Hello Frustrated,

I have been fighting the exact same thing. My truck is a new 2014, crew cab, 4X4, DRW, Aisin, Long horn with Alcoa wheels.

I have been trying several options to stop the passenger seat paint shaker option. My vibration is exactly as you describe, it comes and goes every 10 or 20 seconds. I also have a bad vibration a 35-40MPH and then again any speed over 65MPH. The truck couldn’t be more smooth at 60MPH. I have tried all the same tests; Loaded heavy, tire pressure, road force, even new tires. Nothing has fixed my truck.

My dealer did try a lot of remedies, but in the end they only reduced the vibration a small amount. I do give them credit for keeping the truck without continually trying to give it back with the typical “We think we might have it”. The service manager drove it repeatedly and called several times telling me, “Yep it still shakes and we don’t know why yet.” In the end I eventually had to take the truck and start using it.#@$%!

In my opinion the vibration has nothing to do with my tires or wheels and here is why:
-First the dealer road force balanced the original equipment. This did help but only about 25% reduction.
-The dealer test drove the truck with a set of Alcoas from another DRW longhorn on the lot. I did not drive the truck that day, but the service manager said it was no better, and put my rims back on.
-At my own cost the dealer swapped my tires for Michelin LTX MS2. Most threads indicated a very good result from swapping tires. So it thought I would foot the bill if it might stop the shaking. This did not help me at all. In fact the truck shook worse with the new tires.
-I had a third party tire shop road force balance the new Michelin tires. The report showed them all very low; I believe they all balanced to less than 10. The guys at this shop took the tire to check rim run out with a dial indicator. I don't have all of the results but i believe the worst rim had less than .004" run out. After the balance, I was back to about the same shaking as the stock tires road forced. The truck still shook very bad.
-I played around indexing the rear duals. I turned the outside tires in ¼ turn increments to the inside tires. This had no effect.
-I tried swapping in the spare in different spots. This had no effect at all.
-I have lowered my rear tire pressure to 35 inside and 40 outside for empty commuting. This did help a very small amount.

I then ordered a set of CentriMatic dynamic road force balancers. This too seemed to help a little bit. These balacners seemed to stop each shack cycle quicker. So the truck would only oscillate two or three shakes then stop. But the very marginal gains at highway speed was far outweighed the crazy annoying “wooshing” sound at low speed. The small bee-bees inside the discs make noise until up to speed. So for now, the CentriMatics are off the truck.

In my opinion the vibration is systematic. The new frame (especially the 3500) is extremely rigid. I believe the vibration comes from a harmonic which is in the drive train. The older trucks had enough elasticity to dampen the oscillations. Now the very smallest bump in the road causes the truck to ring like a toning fork. My 97 Ram 3500 DRW 4X4 road way better. So for sure there is room for improvement.

My next step is trying a set of Sulastic rear spring shackles.

I have read soooo many complaints about this. Hopefully someone will hit on the culprit, and we will get to enjoy our $70K trucks!

Any way, for now- My wife still loves riding the passenger seat if you know what I mean!!!!!!:--)

Very interesting!
I heard from my dealer today. Apparently they have decided the tires are the culprit. They have supposedly ordered a new set of tires and are going to replace them. I dunno at this point. If they give it back to me with different tires and it still does it, guess i'll drop it back over there and start looking into alternative actions.
Have any other info on these spring shackles?

 

[Wingate]

ok.. been doing some reading on the Sulastic shackles. sounds interesting IF it works. Whos going first?