Cummins leaving the smaller truck market ?

[rscurtis]

That's funny, I thought Ford already owned Cummings.

 

[Jim W]

Cat exited the OTR market because their ACERT engine was a disaster. Cummins was on the forefront by meeting the 2010 standards 3 years ahead of schedule- I doubt they'd give up now, especially since there are no more standards coming down the road. I wonder if this rumor was started by a disgruntled Ford owner whose 6.7 is in the shop for new heads and valves.

When I was working at Caterpillar the ACERT engine was originally designed to be used with the SCR (UREA) style exhaust system treatment. Than the exhaust treatment was changed to use a similar style of exhaust treatment that Cummins used to meet the 2010 emission rules set forth as Tier IV. Cat had a ruling in the early development period from the EPA; if memory serves me right about 2005 that the EPA would not allow the use of Urea to treat the diesel exhaust system. Since then this ruling has been challenged and was changed by the EPA to allow for SCR style exhaust systems.

So Caterpillar left the on-highway market because Caterpillar did not have enough engine sales to pursue the design and testing of the ACERT engine with the emission treatment required for on-highway use. The companies Caterpillar sold too were either bought up by other manufactures to use their diesel engines in or have gone out of business by 2010.

Jim W.

 

[Wayne M.]

For your viewing pleasure. 2011 F750 with a 6.7
How a Ford should be built!

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Back to the original question, I can't see why Cummins would leave the market. Everything I read on here and in the magazine indicates that Cummins has solved the emissions problem. It looks to me like the new trucks are now not only exceptionally clean but stronger, more capable, and obtaining as or better fuel economy than all of their predecessors. I am newby so I don't know myself, but that is what I read on here. So after all of Cummins investment into solving the emissions problem I can't see why they would leave the market now.

I wish Cummins would bring out a small in-line four cylinder. I would buy such a Cummins engine in a vehicle like my Jeep Patriot in a second.

You can see the Cummins/Allison combination on the Ford website for the F650 and F750. When I was researching buying my truck, the first thing I was told by a long-time mechanic (husband of a person at work) is that I couldn't buy the best truck because it would have a Ford cab and suspension, a Cummins engine, and an Allison transmission - unless I went up to the F650. I just could not justify the cost difference of going to an F650 when all I needed was a 250.

Here is Joe Donnelly's opportunity to jump in and tell us that, starting with the 2013 model year, you can get the best truck with the Ram cab and suspension, Cummins engine, and Aisin transmission!!

 

[GreenChiliSmuggler]

Heard this at a job site today. From what I understand the EPA is driving Cummins to give up on the pickup market by 2015. Anybody else heard anything like this ?. I would not doubt it as the EPA has their nose stuck in everything.

http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/dodge/1109dp_new_cummins_four_cylinder_diesel_engine/


Your information is not accurate. The U.S. Dept of Energy is subsidizing small diesel motors for application in 1/2 ton frames and smaller.

 

[RProvost]

I do not know or heard of that. Cummins just released the 2014 1500 with the Cummins in it.
Scott

WHAT 1500 has a Cummins in it?????

Only 1500 I know with a diesel has a friggin Fiat in it. Squeezing all that power out a small displacement block let's see how long they last.

 

[amsoilman]

I do not know or heard of that. Cummins just released the 2014 1500 with the Cummins in it.
Scott

SORRY Scott, the 1500 Dodge/Ram pickups have a VM Motori 3.0 L V-6 installed, and not a Cummins!

 

[amsoilman]

WHAT 1500 has a Cummins in it?????

Only 1500 I know with a diesel has a friggin Fiat in it. Squeezing all that power out a small displacement block let's see how long they last.

That engine has been around several years. It is only new to the USA

 

[RProvost]

That engine has been around several years. It is only new to the USA

Wayne
Being around in Europe and being in the USA are two different things. Do they put the mileage on that we do? Do they try to carry/haul far more than they should as we do?

"Several" years is not a fair comparison. How long have the 6/4BT based engines been around? I would pay the premium for a 4BT based engine but no way in heck for a Fiat.

It just stands to reason that if you get the power numbers they are getting out of a 3.0L block [a V-6 with all the extra pieces at that] than something has to eventually give.

Rich

 

[amsoilman]

Hers is some interesting information on this engine: VM Motori started supplying Chrysler in 1992, with the Chrysler Voyager’s diesel option; it was owned by Detroit Diesel at the time, spent some time being owned 50/50 by General Motors and Fiat, and is now entirely owned by Fiat. VM Motori currently powers several European Chrysler and Jeep cars, as well as (as of Februrary 2011) the Chevrolet Captiva, London Taxi, and other vehicles. [See VM four cylinder diesels]
This engine was originally developed for General Motors, for eventual use in European Cadillacs, but GM never used it. The Jeep Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500, as sold in North America, have been modified to deal with lower-quality fuel and stronger emissions rules, and carry the code L630.
The diesel engine uses a strong compacted graphite iron block with aluminum heads and a two-piece structural aluminum oil pan. Bore is 83 mm (3.27 in) and stroke is 92 mm (3.62 in) for a total displacement of 2987 cm3 (182 in3). Bore spacing is 96 mm (3.78 in).
The engine is compact and lightweight, with overall dimensions of 695 mm (27.36 in) in length, 729 mm (28.7 in) in width and 697.5 mm (27.46 in) in height. Fully dressed, it weighs 230 kg (507 lbs); on its own, it is 220 kg (485 lb). The engine was designed for either transverse or longitudinal mounting.
The crankcase has stiffened construction, including a compacted graphite iron bedplate that provides a rigid carrier for the forged steel crankshaft, cuttng noise and vibration. The oil pump is a rotary vane type.
The oil pan was reinforced for off-road use; the crankcase capacity is 7.7 L (2 gal). Pistons are cooled with the aid of oil jets; exhaust gas recirculation is water-cooled.
Chain-driven, dual overhead camshafts drive four valves per cylinder, through finger followers. Intake valves measure 28 mm (1.1 in), and exhaust valves are 24.5 mm (0.96 in) in diameter. Combustion-chamber volume is 24.68 cm3 (1.51 in3).
A forged-steel crankshaft is supported by four main bearing journals fitted with four-bolt main bearing caps incorporated into the bedplate. Externally balanced, the crankshaft measures 442.2 mm (17.41 in), reducing the overall packaging requirements of the engine. Connecting rods, with an overall length of 162.9 mm (6.41 in), are constructed of cast iron.

 

[kvtcomdo]

Hers is some interesting information on this engine: VM Motori started supplying Chrysler in 1992, with the Chrysler Voyager’s diesel option; it was owned by Detroit Diesel at the time, spent some time being owned 50/50 by General Motors and Fiat, and is now entirely owned by Fiat. VM Motori currently powers several European Chrysler and Jeep cars, as well as (as of Februrary 2011) the Chevrolet Captiva, London Taxi, and other vehicles. [See VM four cylinder diesels]
This engine was originally developed for General Motors, for eventual use in European Cadillacs, but GM never used it. The Jeep Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500, as sold in North America, have been modified to deal with lower-quality fuel and stronger emissions rules, and carry the code L630.
The diesel engine uses a strong compacted graphite iron block with aluminum heads and a two-piece structural aluminum oil pan. Bore is 83 mm (3.27 in) and stroke is 92 mm (3.62 in) for a total displacement of 2987 cm3 (182 in3). Bore spacing is 96 mm (3.78 in).
The engine is compact and lightweight, with overall dimensions of 695 mm (27.36 in) in length, 729 mm (28.7 in) in width and 697.5 mm (27.46 in) in height. Fully dressed, it weighs 230 kg (507 lbs); on its own, it is 220 kg (485 lb). The engine was designed for either transverse or longitudinal mounting.
The crankcase has stiffened construction, including a compacted graphite iron bedplate that provides a rigid carrier for the forged steel crankshaft, cuttng noise and vibration. The oil pump is a rotary vane type.
The oil pan was reinforced for off-road use; the crankcase capacity is 7.7 L (2 gal). Pistons are cooled with the aid of oil jets; exhaust gas recirculation is water-cooled.
Chain-driven, dual overhead camshafts drive four valves per cylinder, through finger followers. Intake valves measure 28 mm (1.1 in), and exhaust valves are 24.5 mm (0.96 in) in diameter. Combustion-chamber volume is 24.68 cm3 (1.51 in3).
A forged-steel crankshaft is supported by four main bearing journals fitted with four-bolt main bearing caps incorporated into the bedplate. Externally balanced, the crankshaft measures 442.2 mm (17.41 in), reducing the overall packaging requirements of the engine. Connecting rods, with an overall length of 162.9 mm (6.41 in), are constructed of cast iron.

Sounds like something I should look into.

It may just fly.

 

[ursusarticus]

Russell Cummins does produce a small inline 4 look up the "ISF" engine. The problem is that a lot of Cummins engines are not used her in our domestic market therefore not many people know that the exist. lookup the Cummins website and see if they have an engine that will fit the application you need. www.dieselenginetrader.com is a good place to look for an engine once you decide which one fits your application.

 

[Shadrach]

Check this out http://www.nissanusa.com/future-and-concept-vehicles/frontier-diesel-runner

David

 

[RVTRKN]

I'll take a look in the future, and you may not want to look with me.

Back in 06 while I was contemplating the ordering of my current C&C, I saw the writing on the wall with our economy and is the reason I paid cash for it. I talked to Bankers, Realtors, large mutual fund companies and anyone else who would listen, as I predicted the collapse of the economy, starting first with the Housing market. Sound familure, well the bankers I told that their banks would close, and the broker that froze my funds as a cash deposit at my request, thought I was insane. But we all know what transpired in late 07. The bankers that laughed at me with three different banks are no longer working for them, because they don't exsist anymore. After I took delivery on my new truck with my newly acquired Class A lic. as well as my Contractors lic. The economy tanked and stock market as well, as well as the mutual funds collapsing. So now that you have a little insight on my luck to predict the future, and it is luck, here it is next prediction in writing.

Fiat will cancel the contract with Cummins in the near future (can't predict year though) and Nissan will start producing 3/4 ton (1 ton possible) trucks with Cummins engines, and probably with the 6.7 CTD that Nissan will get at first choice, if they want the surplus from leftover Fiat ordered 6.7's undelivered due to Fiat canceling of the contract.

It's a bold prediction, but if Fiat builds a diesel they think can compete with the mighty Cummins, why wouldn't they, after all it's a lot more profit for them. And if Nissan has a relationship already with Cummins, it's not far fetched that they would quickly move to acquire a market that has proven itself and loyal fans of the Cummins that might follow. Nissan has the tooling to quickly convert their production lines to pickups in the 3/4 ton class chassis they currently have in their Vans, it could happen.