2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission 3rd gen steering upgrade?

[speedracer833]

Hello everyone. I am new here and have a question. I recently bought my first diesel, a 95 Ram 2500. The truck wonders on the highway and is hard to keep in the lane. The front end is tight. There is no play in any of the front end parts(ball joints,track bar, tie rods). I have been reading articles on upgrading the Y-style to a T-style. It seems that Dodge has an upgrade kit the for 3rd gen Ram (pt#52122362AF) that some say can be made to fit a 95 2500. Has anyone done this upgrade on a 95 Ram Cummins? If so, any mods need to be done? I have been looking all over the net for an answer to this, but can't find a positive answer. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[JR]

You would have to buy the adapter to do the upgrade which usually comes with the kits. If you say yours is tight I don't know how much of a difference it will make. If everything is tight your steering pump may be to blame they get quite a bit of slop in them over time. You can tighten yours up if it is sloppy. Here's some good info to study up on and give you some things to consider.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/troubleshoot/steering.htm

 

[speedracer833]

The kit I am referring to comes from the dealership. The part number is 52122362AF. It is a stock replacement for gen 3 trucks. People on the net say that they have installed them on their 2000 and up trucks. This is not an aftermarket kit, it comes from Dodge. Some say it can be installed on earlier models but the spindles and or pitman arm may need to be reamed out? I think it has something to do with the tapper on the suspension parts. I am looking to see if anyone as installed this upgrade kit from Dodge on their 1994-1998 Ram 2500. I want to install this on my truck because everyone seems to agree on the fact that the y-style set up is the weak link in Dodges front end. The kit will upgrade the suspension to a t-style set up with much beefier parts. My truck has had the steering box replaced and I ordered the Rock Ram steering column bushing. Thanks for the link, I am looking forward to checking it out.

 

[JMcCoy]

First of all, welcome. You have come to the right place. This site is full of knowledgable people who are willing to help. Some are also full of other stuff (myself included) LOL!

The part you are refering to will not just bolt in. You need an aftermarket adapter bracket that eliminates the ball style joint. Then the stock 3rd gen track bar will bolt in. Several companies make a kit that has the track bar and bracket. I chose a BD adjustable track bar because I have a 2" lift and wanted to recenter my axle. Ball joints often appear good, but the only way to check is to jack up the truck and put a pry bar under the tire. The T style steering will also make a big improvement. A steering box bracket made a huge difference on my truck. The Borgenson box is supposed to be worthwhile upgrade. May I suggest you fill out your signature. It really helps when working through some problems.

 

[cerberusiam]

Considering the number of recalls on the 3rd gen t-type steering not so sure that is much of an upgrade. The parts are beefier but you will have to do some modificsations to make it work, reaming the spindle and pitman arm of course. Not sure on width if they are close enough as the axles have changed. There ar enot a lot of choices for bolt on parts but you could build everything with a tubing bender and parts cheaper than the kits. Then you could use the big GM 1 ton tie rod ends and not have to worry about them.

 

[JMcCoy]

IIRC Dodge went to the t-style steering in 98. The 2nd gen t-style steering should be an big upgrade. I would't waist my time with 3rd gen parts, except for the track bar. Even then, I would go to the aftermarket.

 

[SnoKing]

I put a factory 3rd gen track bar on 10 years ago using Solid Steel's bracket. Also have Darin's steering box brace. Added more caster myself and it has always driven well. SNOKING

 

[SierraRam]

Considering the number of recalls on the 3rd gen t-type steering not so sure that is much of an upgrade. The parts are beefier but you will have to do some modificsations to make it work, reaming the spindle and pitman arm of course. Not sure on width if they are close enough as the axles have changed. There ar enot a lot of choices for bolt on parts but you could build everything with a tubing bender and parts cheaper than the kits. Then you could use the big GM 1 ton tie rod ends and not have to worry about them.

It works much better that the Y style, the recall concerns the installation and not having the tie rod ends in the correct plane. The new kit is idiot proof.

 

[speedracer833]

Maybe that kit isn't such a good ideal. Does anyone have any suggestions on the wondering steering? I bought a Rock Solid Ram column bushing but didn't get it yet. The front end fells tight. Could the ball joints be dry and sticking? The uppers do not have any grease fittings. I did grease everything I could. Maybe if I get some time this weekend I'll pop the tie rod out of the spindles to see if they move freely. Thanks.

 

[SnoKing]

What kind of shape are the tires in? I run around 57 lbs inflation in front tires and 44 in the rear without a load
80 in the rear without a load has it all over the road. Fronts stay the same with the 5th wheel. Snoking

 

[AEdelheit]

IIRC Dodge went to the t-style steering in 98. The 2nd gen t-style steering should be an big upgrade. I would't waist my time with 3rd gen parts, except for the track bar. Even then, I would go to the aftermarket.

They went to "T" style in 2008

 

[JMcCoy]

They went to "T" style in 2008

That is incorrect. They went to the T style steering with the 2nd generation trucks. I know because my 98 came with it. For some reason, Dodge later went back to the Y style in the 3rd gen trucks. A T style steering is not a 3rd generation steering upgrade. It is just a late, 2nd gen upgrade. The only 3rd gen upgrade is the track bar. As stated several times above, requires an aftermarket bracket, which is NOT available through Dodge. Spicer or Moog Parts are built better than some cheap discount parts and should last longer.

Maybe that kit isn't such a good ideal. Does anyone have any suggestions on the wondering steering?.

Speedracer, many suggestions have been made.


As stated above: 3rd gen track bar/bracket, T style steering (just order parts for a later year 2nd gen), steering box stabilizer, Borgenson box and steering shaft, ball joints (if nessesary), Caster.

I would probably check your control arms and hub bearings while your at it. Sway bar ends won't directly effect wander unless you have a top heavy load, but I would check them as well. There probably isn't one answer. More than likely, it will be a combonation of the above. If every part is worn a little, you will be all over the road. If ball joints are tight, I would start with the track bar, t style steering, and a good alignment and see where you are at. By good alignment, I mean an "alignment shop", not Tire Kingdome. Maybe someone will chime in with alignment numbers that worked for them.

It is unlikely the ball joints are sticking. If you believe they are dry, I have added grease by using a grease needle and injecting it into the rubber. I would not do this if the rubber is good and holding grease.

 

[AEdelheit]

That is incorrect. They went to the T style steering with the 2nd generation trucks. I know because my 98 came with it. For some reason, Dodge later went back to the Y style in the 3rd gen trucks. A T style steering is not a 3rd generation steering upgrade. It is just a late, 2nd gen upgrade. The only 3rd gen upgrade is the track bar. As stated several times above, requires an aftermarket bracket, which is NOT available through Dodge. .

Uh hu, not sure why you seem rather aggrivated and talking about track bars while referring to "T" and "Y" style steering since that was a generation change and nothing to do with T or Y style steering. IIRC didint the 2500's still have Y steering on some of the 2500 2nd gens while the 3500's had a T style or somthing odd like that? And since they switched back seems like they truly went to T style in 2008 untill the radius arm trucks came out with a crossover design.

 

[BarryG]

I know my 2001 2500 came with Y style and I changed it to the T style using the part number the op suggested in his first post. It was a simple bolt on affair It is significantly beefier and it is definitely a different style than what came on my truck. So while it may be correct that some 2nd gen trucks came with t style many later 2nd gens did not. In any case I am pretty sure the op's 95 is not going to be a bolt on swap. When doing my research for the swap I found several lengthy threads on the swap over on Cummins forum concerning different years. Might be worth looking over there for more answers.
The third gen track bar does take an aftermarket bracket to work as mentioned as well as a third gen track bar. My 3rd gen oem track bar lasted quite well for 150k. I then switched it out to a carli adjustable design due to the lift the carli suspension added, the oem 3rd gen track bar was still ok when I took it off, well it at least wasn't causing me any steering issues.

 

[cerberusiam]

It works much better that the Y style, the recall concerns the installation and not having the tie rod ends in the correct plane. The new kit is idiot proof.

The t-type does not have grease zerks, it is bent weird for the 3rd gens, and the movement in joints is not the best for a lot of applications. There is a 1 degree alignment that has to hit or it binds. Installation is critcal but there are some other issues that have resulted in a superceded setup that is even harder to get.

That is incorrect. They went to the T style steering with the 2nd generation trucks. I know because my 98 came with it.

All the 2nd gen trucks came from the factory with y-type steering, that was the standard setup. The t-type was not standard until 2008.5 and is running on its 3rd revision in parts. All the new trucks are now cross over steering so even it is history. The 94-99 models had an HD ugrade with heavier pieces and t-type that could be installed but it was not a facory option. That option is not available from Dodge anymore and not sure that even Moog is making the parts for it.

Either way, unless one can source the HD t-type kit everything will require mods to work correctly.

 

[GrantP]

Here are all the part #'s for the T-type steering in a 2nd gen. I used this as a reference when I converted my 97 years ago.

http://www.mark74.com/ram_modifications.htm#crossover steering

 

[speedracer833]

Thanks for the info everyone. I am going to start by looking over the front end and replacing anything that my be questionable. My truck has over 430,000 miles on it and who knows how many miles are on some of these parts. I should mention the steering box was replaced last June by previous owner. No other parts where changed that I know of.

 

[JMcCoy]

Uh hu, not sure why you seem rather aggrivated and talking about track bars while referring to "T" and "Y" style steering since that was a generation change and nothing to do with T or Y style steering. IIRC didint the 2500's still have Y steering on some of the 2500 2nd gens while the 3500's had a T style or somthing odd like that? And since they switched back seems like they truly went to T style in 2008 untill the radius arm trucks came out with a crossover design.

I apologize if I seemed aggrivated. That was not my intention. You quoted my post and stated they went to the T style in 2008, but no other helpfull information. I was just pointing out that that was incorrect information, at least in some trucks. That being said, the T style steering upgrade would not be a "3rd gen" upgrade. The upgrade commonly refered to as the "3rd gen" steering upgrade would be the track bar. I was mearly attempting to clarify some possible confusion, not hurt peoples feelings. Though T steering is an excellent upgrade, it will usually take more than that to get his vehicle on track. I guess I was just fortunate that I already had the T style when I purchased my truck in 1997.

 

[JR]

This is interesting. I used to have a 2000 and the steering set up was different from one Truck to the other. It has been 5 or 6 years since i sold it and can't exactly remember what the differences were.I know on my 2000 I could not keep ball joints in the dang thing, and changed several tie rods and 2 track bars over 150k miles. My 98 seems to be holding up much better so far, but I've only put about 50k on it so far.

 

[JMcCoy]

In 2000, Dodge flipped the ball joints, and started pressing them into the inner knuckles instead of the outer knuckles. 100% of the load was then being placed on the lower ball joint, and the upper was just verticle support. Though there may have been a good reason, I don't know why Dodge did this. As for getting HD parts, I have replaced my steering several times, and had no problems getting parts from NAPA and Auto Zone. They will usually show two diagrams and I just pick the T style that looks like mine, so there shouldn't be any mods.