Best choice on new (to me)truck

[apgambino]

Hi all,
This is my first post here; I am originally a gasser guy ('99 150 supercab 5.4l 4x4) that I use when the weather is bad and when I take the family camping. We own a 26' bumper pull RV. It is well within the towing capacity of the 150, and when it was just the wife, myself, and our german shepherd, we were good to go. As luck would have it we have expanded the family and I need a truck that can handle a carseat.

I've always wanted a diesel, and a Cummins at that, and I figure this is as good a time as any to take the plunge. In doing my research I've decided that a 2500 or 3500 with the mega cab would fit my bill just fine (two kids and the 100 lbs. dog in the back) for long haul camping trips. I am in the Air Force and spend a lot of time overseas so I really value any camping time we get in the summer. At any rate, while I know gas engines inside and out, I am basically a newbie when it comes to diesel. I understand the theory on how they operate, but am lacking the advanced knowledge of what year/engine/transmission combo to shoot for.

Big picture, I know these trucks hold their value well, but I need to keep my expenditure as low as possible. I have spent the last day or so looking over the forum to avoid asking any questions that have been answered 100x, but I still don't feel I have a good grasp on where to get the most for my money.

I am ideally looking for a 2500 or 3500, 4x4, mega cab. Thus I will be looking '06 and up. So, should I stick with an '06-'07 and look for a 5.9l? I have read a bit about injector issues that can quickly brick the engine...so that worries me. On the flip side, is the first year or so of the 6.7l to be avoided? I will not be looking for high hp/torque at all. I may get a tuner in the long run, but only to improve unloaded, city driving and towing. No sled pulling. In the future we may upgrade to a fifth wheel, but that is down the road. As I am new to diesels I am sort of agnostic when it comes to the emissions stuff, unless you all steer me one way or another.

Lastly is the transmission debacle. I've read that the NV5600 is way to go but since I need a mega cab, that is not going to happen. Will the G56 (I won't be swapping to an aftermarket clutch until it needs one) be ok with a slight tune? I have read mixed feelings about that. As for Automatics, from what I gather the 5.9 was only available with the 48RE. I know that beggars can't be choosers, but I have a 4 speed auto in my 150 and I would rather have a more "driver involved" truck, but in the spirit of full disclosure, by wife will have to drive it too...and she hates manuals. I know she can do it, I just want to make sure the G56 is not uber sensitive to less than competent drivers.

So that is that, hopefully you all can steer me in the right direction. If there is something I haven't mentioned that you all think I need to consider, please let me know. As stated above, I feel very comfortable doing moderate-hard automotive work, but I promised the wife I would find a quality, reliable truck that will take us anywhere we need to go and not require regular injections of cash to stay afloat.

Thank you all in advance for the input. I look forward to becoming a part of the community.

Andre

 

[Bob V]

If you find a 5.9 mega cab it will not be cheap. A friend sold an ok 2006 mega manual with 215,000 miles for $30,000, and the guy flew out to Oregon to get it. My friend then bought a 2013 mega with under 20,000 miles and about $3,000 worth of tires /wheels and a canopy for $42,000. To me getting a truck with the balance factory warrantee and 200,000 less miles is worth the extra $12,000. I also feel that if your going to get the 6.7 you might as well get a 2010 and newer, 4th gems are a lot nicer trucks. The 2013s also have the DEF systems and will return better mpg than the earlier 6.7, unless you plan on deleting the emissions. I think you will find that a 3rd Gen 6.7 will be cheaper than a comparable 5.9.

 

[CToney]

The G56 had a very low OD ratio to start with. They eventually fixed it so that the OD ratio was better. If you don't drive very much this might not be too big of a deal. Towing heavy loads in OD the G56 can get hot. This is what leads to failure, the aluminum case expands and the steel gears don't and the tolerances get out of whack. There are some threads on the type of oil to use in the transmission, coolers monitoring the temp and towing in 5th. A buddy of mine has had the G56 in an 08, a 10 and a 14. He has his trucks turned up a bit and he tows too. He has just had to do clutches so far to get away from the dual mass flywheel.

When shopping for a truck I like to buy them without a cold air intake ( modded stock box is good to 450hp), stock exhaust ( aftermarket is too loud ) and no programmer or chips. Too many guys don't know what they are doing. If the truck has gauges it can be a good or a bad thing. Good if the previous owner knew how to read them and when to take his foot out of it or bad because they wanted to see if they could beat their buddy. Added fuel filtration would be a good thing.

I'm ok with my quad cabs. If you get a mega cab you might end up with too many additions quickly. There is a ton of room in them. Congrats on having a wee one and welcome to the forums. Once I had a cummins under my right foot I was hooked. Coming from a gasser once you tow with some torque you will be grinning ear to ear. 800-850 ft lbs is about right....

 

[Jim W]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I have a 2500 08 Mega Cab with the 6.7L and the 6 Sped auto a 68RFE transmission 4X4. The Mega cab has plenty of room and the 6SPD auto is great for towing and using the truck as a daily driver. On the steering column the RH wand for the gear selector has a toggle switch that allows you to lock out higher ration gears in the transmission such as 5 and 6th gears for driving around town; I think this is still true on the newer trucks.

The 6.7L Cummins engine is harder now to modify do to the EPA crack down on aftermarket programmers and tuners being sold. Edge products and H&S products have been fined by the EPA heavily and most other tuners have kind of dried up and gone away. Now there are a couple of tuners that are still selling but most of them are emission legal tuners such as Banks.

I would also look at this free PDF booklet from Turbo Diesel Register that is called Turbo Diesel Buyers Guide. The booklet is free and is listed in the LH column on the Home Page under sample articles. It is a very good read and explains what to look for in buying your first diesel truck and all of the changes that have happen over the last 25 years of the Ram/Cummins relationship.

Good luck!

Jim W.

 

[apgambino]

Thanks for input thus far! Paying 30k for a 200k+ mile plus truck seems ridiculous. I suppose having a light tune capability is better than non, I just need a reliable truck to start with. I will have to do some research into the newer 6.7 trucks to see if that may be more cost effective. Thanks again and keep the ideas coming!

 

[sag2]

Welcome and thanks for your service. I understand that having reliable vehicles means a lot when you are away from home and the wife depends on it. You don't give a budget, but as was said the 5.9 trucks are bringing crazy money. They also are more often tuned which is hard on the 48RE unless modified. They are good values if they were well cared for. On the other hand, as was also mentioned a 2010 and newer truck is overall a very nice package of performance, comfort, and a good engine transmission combo that delivers great driveability and towing. The fuel economy of any year 6.7 will be less than a 5.9 until you hit the 2013 MY. So unfortunately there are many trade offs, and you need to decide how much you are willing to spend, or what you can live without. If you can swing it the 13-14 trucks are really nice, and in the right configuration they are pretty affordable.
If it were me I would just happen to show the wife how much room there is in a Mega or newer Crew cab for that new little one and all the things you can bring along. It never hurts to be working together toward a common goal of keeping the little one safe and comfortable if you know what I mean!!!

 

[Shadrach]

One note on the Mega Cab. A friend bought a new Dodge back in 08 because the family wouldn't fit in the 97 anymore. When he put the car seat in the mega for a test drive his wife found that she couldn't reach around to get at the kids for any reason, such as soothers and sippy cups. The kids were just too far away. He ended up buying a Quad cab, which will suffice until they are older. David

 

[mwilson]

Yes, that is correct. You can't reach anything on the rear seat on a Mega from the front including but not limited to small kids!!!! My wife does get closer if the grandkids need something by reclining her seat waaaay back but with infants it would still not be good.

 

[apgambino]

This is great....speaking of the newer 6.7s, I know they introduced the 68RFE at the same time. Has that transmission held up well thus far? How does it compare to the G56? I know it has not been out long enough to get a hold of how it handles 100k+.

I never thought about having that much space in the back seat as being a bad thing, so I will have to bring that up to the wife, since she is our road trip child/dog wrangler haha.

 

[mwilson]

If you can get the little tykes to open their mouths you can throw animal crackers from the front seat and hit the mark. Liquids are a whole 'nother story.....

I did not add heated seats until the grandkids were bigger as I knew that my wife would be kneeling on her seat trying to reach them in times of travel crisis and the wires would break. She was good with that.....

 

[jgillott]

I have used many combinations of car seats in my quad and crew cab ranging from rear facing infant seats, to forward facing child, and booster seats. Right now, I have one in a booster and will have one in an infant seat again in just a few short weeks.

Anyway, one child in a seat will fit in the 3rd gen Quad cab with our German Shepherd. We test fit the new infant seat in our trucks over the weekend. There is no way that our GSD will ever fit in the Quad with 2 kids. We think that it will work in the Crew Cab, but it will still be tight. My suggestion to you would be to find a 2010 or newer full Crew Cab or any year Mega Cab.

Side note, the back seat of the 3rd gen Quad Cab and the 2010 and newer Crew Cabs feature an indented area in the center or the rear seat to fit aroud the cup holders in the floor. We have found that a forward facing child seat fits just fine even with the indent in the center seating position. However, the base of the new infant seat (Chico Key Fit 30) is much to long to fit in that position safely. We will have to use an outside seating position for that seat.

 

[apgambino]

I have used many combinations of car seats in my quad and crew cab ranging from rear facing infant seats, to forward facing child, and booster seats. Right now, I have one in a booster and will have one in an infant seat again in just a few short weeks.

Anyway, one child in a seat will fit in the 3rd gen Quad cab with our German Shepherd. We test fit the new infant seat in our trucks over the weekend. There is no way that our GSD will ever fit in the Quad with 2 kids. We think that it will work in the Crew Cab, but it will still be tight. My suggestion to you would be to find a 2010 or newer full Crew Cab or any year Mega Cab.

Side note, the back seat of the 3rd gen Quad Cab and the 2010 and newer Crew Cabs feature an indented area in the center or the rear seat to fit aroud the cup holders in the floor. We have found that a forward facing child seat fits just fine even with the indent in the center seating position. However, the base of the new infant seat (Chico Key Fit 30) is much to long to fit in that position safely. We will have to use an outside seating position for that seat.

That is good to know. I think the biggest reason I am leaning toward the mega cab is because of the way the seats fold flat when they are down, thus creating an area for the dog so he isn't stuck half on a seat or with an uneven floor. As I'm sure you know, GSDs can get really whiny if the aren't remotely comfortable.

 

[jgillott]

That is good to know. I think the biggest reason I am leaning toward the mega cab is because of the way the seats fold flat when they are down, thus creating an area for the dog so he isn't stuck half on a seat or with an uneven floor. As I'm sure you know, GSDs can get really whiny if the aren't remotely comfortable.

Oh, I know that all too well. :-laf

My dog is just shy of 9 mths old ~75#. He can jump in to my 1/2 ton Crew Cab with no issue. He does need help at times getting in the the 3rd gens due to their height.

 

[1SAST]

Andre, I have the exact truck you are looking for. Mine is an 06 with the G56. It has been an amazing truck. A few things with my personal experience. Having the mega cab has been amazing for my family. My children are now 17, 9 and 6. So you can see they have grown up in the truck. The interior room in my opinion is priceless. We have used our truck for every family vacation. My truck has only had a few issues which have been only in my opinion normal wear related items. Although my clutch itself was not failing my dual mass flywheel was. At idle in neutral it would rattle the teeth out of your head. An upgraded Southbend clutch took care of that. Shifts flawlessly now. Only difference is substantial more pressure to now depress the clutch. I also experienced the dreaded death wobble. New Carli ball joints and Bilstein 5100 shocks and steering stabilizers have taken care of that. Running 35 inch tires undoubtedly lead to this problem. My truck now with 103k miles has been a great performer. Good luck in your search! Any questions don't hesitate to ask.

 

[Mikey-KE7LBB]

Yes, that is correct. You can't reach anything on the rear seat on a Mega from the front including but not limited to small kids!!!!

Boy I sure wish they existed back when I was growing up cause it sure woulda saved me from a few arse whippings!! :-laf

Anyway, back to topic... I have an '09 QC with G56 and deleted the emissions stuff out of fear. Since then, they came out with the J-35 flash that solved almost all of the problems with the emissions on '07.5-'09 trucks. I occasionally tow my 39' toy hauler with ease. So far, the only failure I've had is the DMF and a set of batteries.

A friend of mine has an '09 QC with G-56 that is bone stock and hasn't had a single issue.

 

[cerberusiam]

Couple of things to consider.

5.9 vs 6.7 -

Any 5.9 is better than any 6.7 ever built. The 5.9 is a proven engine that is very forgiving with some simple steps, the 6.7 not so much so. As installed in stock form the 5.9 is not burdened by the emissions garbage that are a great part of its issues. The 5.9 has its share of emissions with the in-cylinder EGR but it is no wher near as finicky and failure prone as the 6.7 EGR, DPF, etc. If you like working on your trucks and want to without big $$$ in parts or dragging it to a dealer the 5.9 is simpler and easier to deal with.

Buying a used 6.7 cummins in a Dodge beteen 07.5 and 2012 is rolling the dice. Prior to 2010 they were still maturing. Potential for lots of problems. Turbo, EGR, exhaust after treatment are all iffy in those years. Same thing for anything out of warranty, it could cost you $$ to fix either one if they go bad.

It would have to be a REALLY good deal for the perfect truck for me to even consider an 07.5-2012. The fuel dilution of the oil and soot loading is hard to take along with the tendency to blow head gaskets if pushed and the finicky turbo.

Mega Vs Quad -

Mega's are NICE, living room back there. You pay for the loss in the bed though. I thouhg I could live with a short bed and was talked out of it. Never so glad I was. Usage makes a difference but an 8 ft bed for camping and 5'er is a must in my book. They seem to ride and handle a lot better than the shorter ones. You will have to stay in 06-07 with its share of glitches in the electronics to get the Mega. Plus side is there are more solutions for tuning if you so desire. Down side is they are a lot more particular about tuners, fuel, and keeping electronics clear of noise and any shorts in the electrical system.

Transmission -

Any of the manual trucks are short on OD ratio. That hurts economy, no way around it. The DMF is a nuisance, thtas the nicest thing I can say about it. For any application other than always hooked to trailer and always towing a heavy load, the auto trans is a much better solution. If you ever want your wife to drive it, depending on her preferences, or you want to get into traffic quickly go with the auto. With the 5.9's it is the 48RE, 3 speed with an OD. Proven design that was ruined by cheaping out on parts and NVH. Good news is for about the price of a clutch and assorted things to fix the DMF you can fix the 48RE to the same level and have a better unit. The 68RFE is another animal that is not really bad but it doesn't like things the 48RE would shrug off. It is more expensive to fix, but, it has better ratios and they are spaced better. The AISIN is the best unit available but unless you go to the newer trucks it is limited in availability.


All depends on how much you want to use it, how much you want to tow, how much you want to maintian it yourself, and last but least how many $$$ you want to spend.

 

[Shadrach]

One note on a dog in the back seat. On my 03 QC I fold the left rear seat cushion up and flip out the floor, making a large flat surface. I then put on old sleeping bag on it and there is plenty of room for my Border Collie cross to lie there. Today I was checking out my friends 06 Mega Cab. The rear seats fold down instead and do it in 2 different ways, one by pulling the lower lever which moves the cushion down and forward then the back comes down on top of it, or by pulling the lever on the top of the back rest which just tips that part down on top of the cushion. Either way make the flat surface a lot higher for doggie to jump up into than the 03. With the rear seat in the normal position and the drivers seat in a position that would be OK for most drivers the rear floor area itself would, although smaller than the set up in my 03, would be OK for a medium sized dog. David

 

[Deleted member 995608]

Welcome!

As others have already mentioned, a decent 3rd gen is going to cost both arms and your legs. I sold my 04.5 a few months back with intentions of buying a brand new truck; I have since changed my mind 1000 times. Anyway, every single 3rd gen I've looked at that has 100k miles or less and is in excellent shape, has priced anywhere from $6-$10k over high retail. Those high prices is what has prevented me from buying another 3rd gen so far. And when I add in the possible future maintenance costs: clutch, injectors, etc, it doesn't put me that far off from buying a brand new Bighorn w/ a warranty. It's a tough decision.

Good luck with your search!

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Lots of good information above. Here are a few more things to consider. Bosch recommended 4 micron or better fuel filtration with their HPCR system, but the Rams didn't have that good until recently, not during the Third Gen time period. Thus, it is common to need injectors sometime after (sometimes before) 100,000 miles. They will cost about $3000 plus installation, usually. I like the NV5600 best of the transmissions available in the third gens, but it is now an orphan with limited parts availability. Everything wears in every year truck, so I can't see paying anywhere near the cost of a new one for a used truck. The emissions system gave many a bad feeling (and results) from 2007.5--2012 but the 2013-up system is very good. I kept my early 2004 with NV5600 (and the quad cab had pretty good room back there) until 2013 for good reason. If the 13s hadn't had a good emissions system, excellent mileage, considerably upgraded steering and suspension, etc. I would have kept the 2004 forever. The Aisin trans was also very important to me. The crew cab has a lot of room in the rear seat, and for most of us has made the mega cab unnecessary.

 

[apgambino]

Thank you for being so informative. After looking at a lot of prices it would seem a 2013 is probably my best bet. I would rather have a truck that has less strings attached, but it is hard to stomach spending almost 30k on a truck with well over 100k miles on it, not to mention trying to sell it to my wife who is an accountant hah.

@shadrach, I know that the backseat will be a big jump for the dog, but IIFC when the seats of the mega cab are laid down, the flat space goes all the way to the back of the cab? I want to make sure he can lay all the way down. I will have to look for some pictures to confirm it.

Thanks again for all the help, I am currently TDY, but when I get home I will start getting the old 150 ready to sell since she is not getting any younger, then at least I will have some extra cash to throw down to make the payments a little more manageable.

I will start reading up on everything I can so I hit the ground running!