My turbo Odyssey

[CToney]

I'm trying to find the right turbo for my 03 & 05 trucks. Both trucks are 6spd, 3.73 geared, 50 hp injectors, ATS exhaust manifolds, intake horns, modded stock air boxes and 4" Donaldson mufflers. I using smarty Jrs set to tow on both but hope to do UDC once I have a turbo figured out for both trucks.

The 03 had a HE351 with the wastegate line eliminated. It would see a max of 42 psi with this setup. Egt would hit a max of ~1250F. The 05 would see a max of 39 psi and 1300F. I tow frequently often grossing ~20,000-22,000lbs. After reading several threads this winter on turbos I thought I could find a turbo that could reduce my drive pressure, lower my egt, improve mpg and add a few more hp. I wasn't looking for big gains. Cool efficient towing power from 1800-2200 rpm. I read the diesel power magazine turbo test article and the HTT turbo, intercooler and exhaust manifold test in Diesel World. It wasn't a similar tuner nor were the trucks 6spd but I figured I could use some of the info from the articles. The turbos with larger compressor and turbine wheels flow more air but don't perform all that well at lower rpm. The stock 351 works better there. The HTT uses a 64 mm cast compressor and a 70x60 10 blade turbine wheel. From its test it had better flow and its dyno curve followed the stock curve. I also found a positive review of using the stock compressor wheel with a 70x60 12 blade wheel out of the 351ve turbo from the 6.7 trucks. It offers more flow but is supposed to maintain stock like spoolup. I contacted a guy building custom modified 351 turbos. He had just finished a 63/65 with a billet compressor wheel he convinced me it would be a good fit. Billet grabs more air than cast but is lighter and offers faster spoolup. I bought the turbo and put it on my 05. It sure made the truck breathe better and gained me a couple tenths of mpg. It didn't work towing at all. Egt was too high too quick. I couldn't pull hills and couldn't pass without watching the pyro like a hawk. After some further research I found the compressor wheel was a 63/99, too big. The stock wheel is a 58/86. It sure made hp well at high rpm. Once you were over 35 psi it took off. I removed the turbo and put my stocker back on. I was able to sell the turbo so I didn't lose much time or $.

The best way to learn is to make a mistake and you learn better if it costs you $ right? This time I did more research and tried to be more educated on my turbo choice. I decided to get a 60/86 billet stock replacement compressor wheel with a 70/60 12 blade HE351ve turbine wheel for my 03 and a 62/86 billet w/ 70/60 12 blade turbine again. Since I'm North of the 49th and shipping gets pricey and our CDN is ~80 cents USD I was trying to watch my budget. (Being cheap usually costs you more $).

I finally put the turbo on my 03. Initial response was the truck was freed up from reduced drive pressure but I could only see 21 psi. The wastegate wasn't set high enough. I wanted it set at 35psi. On go my trusty vise grips on the boost line. Now I can see 37 psi but my egt keeps climbing past 1200F, not good. This was w/o the trailer. My cruising boost dropped from 6 psi and 600F to 5 psi and 600F. This was good as the truck was breathing better. Tow test time. Egt was a problem again. On a hill where I would have maxed out at 1250 F and 35 psi I could only get 30 psi and the egt hit 1300 and was climbing. A downshift to higher rpm did no better with egt rising too fast again. What could be my problem? A lot of searching and a call to a couple guys one with a fleece cheetah and another with a HTT 351 and I find out they don't have this trouble at all. I talked to my turbo builder and I find out I have a 70/60 turbine wheel from a HX35. It has a wider tip 10.5 mm compared to the 351ve wheel at 8 mm. 2mm is a lot when it comes to turbos. More research and more questions. He assures me that the wider tip is better. The HX35 turbine blade profile is different than the stock turbine blade profile. The 35 is at 90 degrees where the 351cw is cupped. There is a 351ve turbo that should be in my hands soon so I can see its profile. Is the HX35 turbine wheel designed for a dual volute(divided) turbine housing or is it for a single volute ( undivided) housing. My billet wheel is supposed to grab more air (it should give me more or similar boost than I had before with the smaller stock turbine wheel). The builder figures my wastegate is opening prematurely from drive pressure. I doubt this is the case. He suggests installing the 62 mm turbo and seeing how it performs.

I am getting more grey hair and don't really have a lot of time to do the R&D. What should I do next? A few positive things have come from my odyssey. I have got to know a few fellow forum members a bit better (very helpful and good people), I've learned a lot about turbos, and since my 351 had a lot of shaft play in my 03 now have a rebuilt turbo in it.

Opinions and suggestions welcome. I wasn't very smart but I hope I'm a bit wiser now.
Chuck

 

[Shadrach]

Thanks for sharing your experience. You might want to call these guys They have a shop in Calgary and Edmonton. I have found them to be very knowledgeable. http://www.alamoturbochargers.com/index.php I have a similar truck but have a cam in it. My injectors are stock and my 6 speed is a G56 from an 08. I chose the Garrett Power Max Stage 2 with a coolant cooled center section and ball bearings. I combined it with an AFE stainless exhaust manifold and a Duralite charge air cooler. I did them all at the same time. Not the best way to see what difference a change makes. I did the manifold at the same time because it made sense and I discovered the CAC had a crack in it when I was cleaning it out after the original turbo started pumping oil. For towing a 28' TT thru the mountains I am happy with the combo. I also have a Smarty POD set on 3 ( 60 HP with timing ). I get about 4-6 psi at highway cruising speeds and up to 28-30 at WOT. My EGT's stay under control but I don't abuse it. I drove it all the way to the Cummins plant tour in Columbus IN ( not much for hills except coming back thru Montana ) with a 9'9 camper on the back it and it performed great. It does add a bit of whistle. I have a 6.7 air box as well.

Here is some info & specs on the turbo:

Garrett GT3782R Stage 2 dual ball-bearing turbo
A Garrett exclusive ball bearing cartridge for unbeatable response, efficiency, and durability. Elimination of the thrust bearing eliminates Failures at elevated boost levels
The upgrade results in lower intake and exhaust gas temperatures as well as reduced backpressure for more efficient air flow
Water-cooled center section with a patented dual ball-bearing center section results in higher durability and longer turbo life
Oil inlet fitting features a built in restrictor for worry-free operation
High flow compressor wheels move air quickly and powerfully
Maximum recommended boost is 40 psi

and this:

It’s a 62/64/.89 turbo. The comp wheel is a 61.4x82mm 6 blade wheel, and is normally found in the GT3582R turbo. The turbine wheel is a 72.5x64mm 10 blade wheel, and is normally found in a GT3788R. The center section is a GT37R water cooled ball-bearing unit. The exhaust housing is a .89 a/r divided and internally gated unit that has the HE351 4.4” outlet on it. This combo is designed specifically for the 3rd gen Cummins.

You can read this http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3...-powermax-stage-2-gt3782r-install-review.html or PM me if you would like to chat. There is also info on this site.

BTW The turbo guys told me it NEEDS clean oil and also NEEDS to be cooled down before the engine is shut down. Good advise for any turbo.

PS I "might" be taking it off the truck. David

 

[promisedland]

Hello!,....CToney,! i read your post and was intristed to know if ALL your hair are gray by now [], or if you have a setup that works for you! i have a simular truck and want to do a turbo swap somtime............... thanks!

 

[p-Bar]

Hello!,....CToney,! i read your post and was intristed to know if ALL your hair are gray by now [], or if you have a setup that works for you! i have a simular truck and want to do a turbo swap somtime............... thanks!

Ya same here keep testing for us

 

[CBari]

I can't add a lot about the above choices but back in December my factory turbo on my 03 began to leak so after shopping around I went with a BD super b. I can't say that I am necessarily disappointed but, I can say that Daily driving is great and that pulling trailer has been as good as stock maybe better. One bad experience while pulling it just seamed weak, (did blow an inter-cooler boot on that trip and that may be leaving a bias about that trip.) The big negative I have is mileage has been down all around and the adapter between the turbo and exhaust break has a leak that I can't seem to stop(only leaks with exhaust break engaged). BD answer was to put axle grease on the mating surfaces. (I haven't taken it apart lately to try the axle grease just not sure of about the effort for that)

 

[HHhuntitall]

I could write an in-depth article about it, and still get a lot of things wrong and forget to mention things about air CFM, blade diameter/width, fuel injection timing, injector nozzle design, backpressure, air intake design, cylinder swirl, etc., etc., etc, etc.....

My suggestion if you want to talk to someone that knows their products, and is available to ship to Canada, try Peak Diesel. www.peakdiesel.com Their main office is in BC. This is also who Harry Piers was working for last time I talked to him....