20% Bio diesel

[HSpiering]

Have a station selling 20% Bio for 20 cents less per gal than other stations around for #2. Book says 5%. Guess not worth trying to mix. Not sure what trucks can use 20%. I did half a tank on a 450 mile trip when I added 20 gal at a fill up not paying attention. Guess about 10% for that tank. Not sure it made better or worse mileage.

 

[RustyJC]

The 6.7L Fords advertise that they can burn B-20. Heck, they put it on the door badges.

Rusty

 

[Bob V]

Is it in Scappoose? I bought fuel there a few times. Never had a problem. Was a discussion about it a while ago. Cummins says 20% is only authorized for fleet and government use, 5% for everyone else. Don't really know why.

 

[HSpiering]

No it was by Portland. In fact it is a place that sells about 40 cents less than most. I need to drive 15 miles to get 20 cents off most places. Their charging about $3.50. Just paid $4.06 day before in E Oregon. Wonder if mileage is different with 20 Bio vers #2. Looks like prices are starting to come down. I heard on the news Wa & Or are the highest in the country.

 

[Bob V]

The shell in Scappoose is $3.40. My local shell is $3.60. Discount gas is $3.09 locally. You will get a lot of different answers about the b20. Most will say a little less MPG. My understanding is they don't have to pay either the state or federal tax on the b20, I don't know which one for sure but I think its the state tax. Makes me wonder how many stations are buying the b20, not paying the tax, and selling it at full price. They put a SMALL little sign up saying it COULD be up to 20% bio, and make an extra $.25 a gallon.

 

[HSpiering]

This was my first longer road trip with out a trailer. 460 miles east and I got 19.8. Tried for 65 w/cruse. Had about 800 lbs in back. That is about 2 less than my 94 would do. I guess not bad for 160 more HP.

 

[EGroeneveld]

Is it in Scappoose? I bought fuel there a few times. Never had a problem. Was a discussion about it a while ago. Cummins says 20% is only authorized for fleet and government use, 5% for everyone else. Don't really know why.

I'd say because Cummins knows that most fleet/government fuel buyers are going to make sure they get the good 20% bio-diesel that is up to standards. I bet they are nervious about every Joe Bob Dick and Harry that is making and selling 20% Bio-Diesel that may or may not be up to snuff. A few years ago there were not even standards.

 

[Bob V]

I'd say because Cummins knows that most fleet/government fuel buyers are going to make sure they get the good 20% bio-diesel that is up to standards. I bet they are nervious about every Joe Bob Dick and Harry that is making and selling 20% Bio-Diesel that may or may not be up to snuff. A few years ago there were not even standards.

Yep, probably worried the average Joe will find some "home brew" and kill the fuel system. Its a name brand dealer (Shell) so I am personally not worried. If it was a "independent" station I would not be buying there. I would be willing to bet that there is b20 in more stations than just the ones that have the lower price.

 

[Tuesdak]

This should be under Alt Fuels...

I wasn't using home brew and suggest you use a separate water separator and run a fuel soluble biocide. Biodiesel really loves to adsorb injection equipment killing water. You also need to change your oil more often from the undetectable in UOA biodiesel contamination.

This is the worst that can happen.

 

[jkern]

As long as the B20 is CLEAN and DRY it will be fine. I have been running anywhere from B20 to B100 in my 6.7 for over 12k miles with absolutely zero problems. You will see less MPG running a higher concentration of Biodiesel than regular #2; this is because there is less energy (BTU's) per gallon in biodiesel than in regular diesel, so you get less MPG. in general it is somewhere between 9 and 12% less.

The link referenced above is an absolute worst case scenario of using dirty, wet, untested fuel. Biodiesel however, is a great solvent; so if you have a dirty fuel system to begin with, Bio will clean it out and will lead to a need to change fuel filters a bit more often. If the Bio is clean, dry, and meets ATSM standards, there is no reason not to use it.

 

[Tuesdak]

As long as the B20 is CLEAN and DRY it will be fine. I have been running anywhere from B20 to B100 in my 6.7 for over 12k miles with absolutely zero problems. You will see less MPG running a higher concentration of Biodiesel than regular #2; this is because there is less energy (BTU's) per gallon in biodiesel than in regular diesel, so you get less MPG. in general it is somewhere between 9 and 12% less.

The link referenced above is an absolute worst case scenario of using dirty, wet, untested fuel. Biodiesel however, is a great solvent; so if you have a dirty fuel system to begin with, Bio will clean it out and will lead to a need to change fuel filters a bit more often. If the Bio is clean, dry, and meets ATSM standards, there is no reason not to use it.

Or in the exact case I had getting bugs in the fuel from a local commercial ASTM standards biodiesel supplier. Was it from being dirty and wet to begin with I can't say. Sure, they failed a bunch of tests when the State of Arizona tested them... But, who says YOUR ASTM standard supplier is any better? Just set your expectations correctly and more importantly know what can happen so you can catch and cure it before it gets really bad. Yes, we went through several thousand gallons of B99, 30K towing miles give or take offhand, without issue before that mess hit.

Even with the good fuel we got the DPF cleaning was diluting the engine oil as seen as making oil and viscosity reduction. Switched back to #2 and the making oil issue went away.

 

[jkern]

A good point that is brought up, is that Bio and DPF's don't mix well in the Cummins 6.7's these engines use a post combustion injection event when there is a need for the regen of the DPF. the issue becomes is that Bio is a bit thicker and has a much higher flash point that regular diesel. this combined property doesn't allow the bio to vaporize as well as the diesel and thus you get more "cylinder washing" which is why the truck "makes oil" Now if the DPF went missing somehow and the ECM was re-flashed to eliminate the regen cycles, then Bio can be run with no DPF concerns at all!

 

[2013megacab]

I know this is an old thread, and this may be old news but....

The manual that came with my 2013 2500 says I should not use biodiesel above B5. I understood that the 2014 and later trucks had information in the manual about using B20 so I contacted Customer Care and I was told that I should stick with B5, the information in the 2014 manual did not apply to me.

I asked a service rep at my dealer and she referred me to one who she said knew diesels better. He told me that as long as I complied with the oil and filter change intervals I would be OK. While looking for something else tonight I checked the current download Diesel Supplement (5th edition) for the 2013 2500's and it basically told me what my service rep told me: biodiesel up to B20 meeting ASTM standards is OK as long as oil and filter change intervals are observed and MoPar filters are used.

Al

 

[AnOldBiker]

If your pro Bio or against, it's an individual belief. But the supply of hydrocarbon based diesel in this country is played like a card game, and were the one affected. Of all the diesel processed in this country, we have access to LESS than 50% of it. Most is sent overseas because they can make a higher profit. Then they regulate the prices of fuel sold here because they don't have the supplies for us ? So we get screwed and they get richer. If we could stop the diesel from being shipped overseas, you would have way more fuel at cheaper prices than you can handle.

I prefer using less or no bio. I have fought tainted tanks before, tired of paying these fuel price, getting less mpg's in the long run, while they want us to believe we're saving money and improving the environment, while they are making money off us. And if bio is better for the environment, does it reduce the emissions and soot ? Or does it increase because you are burring more to do the same as regular fuel ?

Sorry, had to vent.

 

[Tuesdak]

Again 10% less MPG on B99 due to less BTU content. Higher NOx emissions. Lower smoke - in fact it's use by filling up on B99 can help pass an iffy engine on a smoke meter snap test. The Bio does add the most lube to ULSD per the Spicer wear scar test done.

The worst case as above water/bugs, reduced shelf life, warranty concerns, emissions like the post injection cheap design, emissions like higher NOx, and typical fuel quality problems are why OEM's don't want to use the stuff. The EPA has gone NUTS on NOx emissions to where we have tighter standards than the European Union so this is a big reason not to certify an engine on B99.

If you have a dedicated exhaust DPF cleaning injector you can run up to B99 with only 3 issues:
1) Fuel quality: Use a biocide and a dedicated water separator fuel filter. IE better fuel and water filtration. Keep the fuel dry and in a closed container. Use it up quickly and even quicker in hot weather. Make sure you have a good supplier and IMO avoid the recycled french fryer oil type producers. Don't forget B99 starts gelling at a higher temp than #2 like 45 degrees F.
2) Change the engine oil more - forget synthetic as the fuel dilution is not shown on UOA and is happening as loss of viscosity that UOA will show. Biodiesel doesn't evaporate out of the oil like #2 diesel does.
3) Change the fuel filter more often and carry a spare. The first batch can clean out your system and plug a filter.

 

[BIGNASTY]

I run Homemade 100% bio in the 04.5 and have no trouble, better than the Pee burners that have to fill up with the high dollar stuff + the extra expense of Pee.

Gee I hope the " Mini Trucker " don't see this he'll get him panties in a bunch again.

Just incase he does WASH THAT TRUCK your not making a good first impression with a dirty Tonka Toy :-laf

 

[Freebore]

I'd say because Cummins knows that most fleet/government fuel buyers are going to make sure they get the good 20% bio-diesel that is up to standards. I bet they are nervious about every Joe Bob Dick and Harry that is making and selling 20% Bio-Diesel that may or may not be up to snuff. A few years ago there were not even standards.

I don't have the documentation close by, but I seem to recall that B20 was to be avoided unless extra filtration (Severe Duty Filter Kit) was installed and fleets and governments were likely the first to do that - seems like that was going back to 06-07. Regardless of what they say, I really can't avoid B20 as pumps are labeled that fuel could have up to 20% biodiesel a lot of places I go to. I've added the SDFK as well as improved secondary filtration just for additional insurance. I got a very bad batch of fuel (water laced) from a BP station in Minnesota nearly 2 years ago which probably didn't help my injectors a bit (just replaced them). Even with the improved filtration, I still open the water drains on the primary filters for peace of mind.

 

[2013megacab]

My post was incorrect

The manual that came with my 2013 2500 says I should not use biodiesel above B5. I understood that the 2014 and later trucks had information in the manual about using B20 so I contacted Customer Care and I was told that I should stick with B5, the information in the 2014 manual did not apply to me.

I asked a service rep at my dealer and she referred me to one who she said knew diesels better. He told me that as long as I complied with the oil and filter change intervals I would be OK. While looking for something else tonight I checked the current download Diesel Supplement (5th edition) for the 2013 2500's and it basically told me what my service rep told me: biodiesel up to B20 meeting ASTM standards is OK as long as oil and filter change intervals are observed and MoPar filters are used.

Al

I didn't read the preceding page. The information I quoted was only for vehicles with the B20 option, whatever that is. I think it is an extra or different fuel filter.

Al

 

[Bob4x4]

The manual that came with my 2013 2500 says I should not use biodiesel above B5. I understood that the 2014 and later trucks had information in the manual about using B20 so I contacted Customer Care and I was told that I should stick with B5, the information in the 2014 manual did not apply to me.

I asked a service rep at my dealer and she referred me to one who she said knew diesels better. He told me that as long as I complied with the oil and filter change intervals I would be OK. While looking for something else tonight I checked the current download Diesel Supplement (5th edition) for the 2013 2500's and it basically told me what my service rep told me: biodiesel up to B20 meeting ASTM standards is OK as long as oil and filter change intervals are observed and MoPar filters are used.

Al

Your dealer is not quite correct the pcm needs to be reprogramed to shorten up the filter change interval

 

[Bob4x4]

From the fsm
♦♦♦♦♦ Use good quality diesel fuel from a reputable supplier in your vehicle. Federal law requires that you must fuel this vehicle with Ultra Low Sulfur Highway Diesel fuel (15 ppm Sulfur maximum) and prohibits the use of Low Sulfur Highway Diesel fuel (500 ppm Sulfur maximum) to avoid damage to the emissions control system. For most year-round service, No. 2 diesel fuel meeting ASTM specification D-975 Grade S15 will provide good performance. We recommend you use a blend of up to 5% biodiesel, meeting ASTM specification D-6751 with your diesel engine.This vehicle is compatible with biodiesel blends greater than 5% but no greater than 20% biodiesel meeting ASTM specification D-6751 provided the shortened maintenance intervals are followed as directed. If the vehicle is exposed to extreme cold (below 20°F or -7°C), or is required to operate at colder-than-normal conditions for prolonged periods, use climatized No. 2 diesel fuel or dilute the No. 2 diesel fuel with 50% No. 1 diesel fuel. This will provide better protection from fuel gelling or wax-plugging of the fuel filters.