Hensley Arrow advanced towing system

[SnoKing]

Yes in the first case for sure. In the second video it did not go over until it got out of shape far enough to trip. But no one it going to change your mind, so you will continue your dis-service to those towing bumper pulls. SNOKING

 

[GAmes]

No, it is you who is doing the dis-service to those who have potentially dangerous trailers. You'll have them putting a band-aid on a out of balance or structurally unsound trailer that will eventually end up like the trailer in the first video. Your theory is that the swaying trailer didn't have a sway gimmick installed. It was obviously tail heavy. My theory is it had sway at low speeds, so the owner installed a device that allowed him to get fast enough to pass the vehicle the video was taken from. Either way, a Hensley could not have prevented that wreck, and it is a dis-service to convince anyone that it would.

The notion that a Hensley would have kept the second trailer from blowing over is as ridiculous as a Hensley would have stopped the 18 wheeler from blowing over. The propaganda is that a Hensley makes your TT a 5th wheel hitch type trailer. What is a semi-trailer, if not a 5th wheel?

Once again, the challenge. Show me one piece of evidence from an independent agency that gives any credence to any added safety a sway device of any kind provides. Not videos that prove nothing. Not sales pitches from gimmick manufacturers. Not anecdotes. Something from an agency whose focus is on safety.

 

[Alphonse]

... . Show me one piece of evidence from an independent agency that gives any credence to any added safety a sway device of any kind provides... ...

The argument of "independent agency" is mighty shallow don't you think? If not, then show me one that says it's a gimmick.

 

[NIsaacs]

Trailer sway:


I give this guy in the red Ford credit for finding reverse so quick after the terror he just went though:-laf If he would have been that quick on the trailer brake control he would not have lost it.

Nick

 

[GAmes]

The argument of "independent agency" is mighty shallow don't you think? If not, then show me one that says it's a gimmick.

Shallow? Any source who doesn't have a dog in the hunt, anyone who isn't biased by BS. For example, somewhere there is a govt study showing SAFETY chains will really make the motoring public safer. Somewhere is another that concludes that an emergency break away on trailers equipped with brakes will make the motoring public safer. Where is the study that indicates a sway gimmick adds safety? It doesn't have to be a gov't agency. Universities do that sort of thing all the time.

Evidence they are a gimmick is easy. 12 years of log books towing TTs and enclosed cargo trailers without one incident of sway. New, old, loaded and unloaded. All shapes and sizes in all types of weather. All over the US and Canada. Blowouts, wild animals, cross winds and moron drivers, all things the zealots claim either cause or contribute to sway.

Speaking of cargo trailers, how many of you zealots use a sway control gimmick device attached to a bumper pull trailer that is easy to load improperly, easily inducing sway? 99.99% of bumper pull trailers (other than TTs) do not. So, if you say yes, you are more than likely lying. If you say no you are a

HIPOCRITE

noun hyp·o·crite \ˈhi-pə-ˌkrit\

: a person who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs

For the record, I towed a trailer that is owned by one of the .01% Loaded with electronics, 20 some feet long, about 10,000 pounds. Like AH64ID, the owner's only choice for a WD is one that came with a gimmick device. I towed it from Austin to southern California. It towed exactly the same as any other enclosed utility trailer.

 

[Alphonse]

So now you are calling folks zealots, hypocrites, and liars! That smacks of you being a Troll.

Plus you have now attempted another over used argument that most folks see through, "I have towed for XX years and never wrecked!" Good for you and I hope your luck holds out. By the way, you have posted a photo of an Equalizer hitch and I thought the topic was Pivot Point Projection hitches.

So back to the simple request I made, share with us your independent agency that says it is a gimmick.

 

[SnoKing]

So now you are calling folks zealots, hypocrites, and liars! That smacks of you being a Troll.

Plus you have now attempted another over used argument that most folks see through, "I have towed for XX years and never wrecked!" Good for you and I hope your luck holds out. By the way, you have posted a photo of an Equalizer hitch and I thought the topic was Pivot Point Projection hitches.

So back to the simple request I made, share with us your independent agency that says it is a gimmick.

Save your breath, you we are wrestling with alligators when all we wanted to do was drain the swamp. SNOKING

 

[GAmes]

So now you are calling folks zealots, hypocrites, and liars! That smacks of you being a Troll.

Plus you have now attempted another over used argument that most folks see through, "I have towed for XX years and never wrecked!" Good for you and I hope your luck holds out. By the way, you have posted a photo of an Equalizer hitch and I thought the topic was Pivot Point Projection hitches.

So back to the simple request I made, share with us your independent agency that says it is a gimmick.

No, the argument I'm making is about sway devices being a gimmick, and anyone with the power of rational thinking can see it. Of course there isn't an independent agency to prove something is benign. The point I was making is no one in the safety world believes they are something the motoring public needs, if they were they would be mandatory, just like chains and breakaways. The proof is the bumper pull trailers that YOU and SNOKING have hooked up without a sway device. Why not? If bumper pulls are so prone to sway, and sway devices are so necessary, why didn't YOU use one? Why do only TTs need them? Why is it that the hundreds of TTs that I have pulled (along with the thousands that are pulled every year by other transporters) haven't swayed? That is the proof. I was once convinced they are necessary also, and had one on my boat trailer. I was proved wrong. With all the proof that has been presented you still think TTs need them. That makes you a zealot. The fact that you don't use them on utility trailers makes you a hypocrite. If pointing that out makes me a troll, so be it.

Edit; I never called anyone a liar. I said if you told me you regularly use a sway gimmick device on a bumper pull utility trailer that "more than likely" you would be a liar.

 

[SnoKing]

"with the thousands that are pulled every year by other transporters" And transporters never tow them loaded and use heavy duty tow rigs. How about you start towing them with a smaller SUV, 150 or 1500 pickup, fill the water tank that is in the rear a lot of the cases and see how you do. Transporting and daily use by the end user are apples and oranges. Trailers seem to be getting longer and lighter all the time, with claims for use behind vehicles that are getting higher and higher tow ratings put there by vehicle marketing departments. SNOKING

 

[GAmes]

"with the thousands that are pulled every year by other transporters" And transporters never tow them loaded and use heavy duty tow rigs. How about you start towing them with a smaller SUV, 150 or 1500 pickup, fill the water tank that is in the rear a lot of the cases and see how you do.

I'm a transporter. I tow loaded trailers all the time, not just new ones. Do you think I'm the only one? The same old saw about HD tow rigs doesn't fly. If a trailer is loaded tail heavy or is mechanically unsound it will sway just the same regardless of what it is hooked to. I have delivered several 17 ft, single axle, Forest River R-Pods this summer. It would be super easy to overload the rear of the trailer to the point of sway (and thanks for verifying one of my points, however, it is a myth that holding tanks are positioned where there is a danger of causing sway. RV manufacturers know better, and couldn't afford the lawsuits anyway.) One could be pulled by my DIL's Volvo XC90. So if the trailer was loaded rear heavy enough to sway behind her car do you really believe it wouldn't sway behind my truck under the same conditions? Really??? Oh yes, getting the rig to a stop would be much easier with my truck, but sway is sway. When are you going to provide some evidence that a "sway control" device would keep that trailer from swaying in the first place? When are you going to stop skipping over the questions that are pertinent to your theory? Do you attach a "sway control" device to the utility trailers you pull? Why not????????????????????????

 

[GAmes]

Trailers seem to be getting longer and lighter all the time,

How about longer and heavier. Are you naive enough to believe that this trailer, if swaying, would not easily overpower my duelly? BTW, it had a flat, on the drivers side, near Quartzite, AZ, and I didn't notice. A trucker had to call me on the CB to let me know. So much for the myth that flats cause sway.

 

[RustyJC]

If you're looking for a neutral party analysis of trailer sway, try THIS. The author addresses damping of the driven oscillator system due to cargo movement and impact, but not system damping due to sway control devices. His particular tow vehicle/trailer arrangement under study was self-stabilizing after a number of sway cycles, but as some of the posted videos have shown, that's NOT the case with other configurations where the oscillations become more violent with each sway cycle.

Rusty

 

[NIsaacs]

This is the hitch the thread is about:


It is touted as the best hitch money can buy, $2500 Note the length, 18" beyond a normal draw bar It will only work on an exposed tube type A-frame tongue and because of the long length it will only work with the weight bars. However "If" an inexperience hauler would try and use it on a different trailer (he knows it is the best) such as an I-beam tongue, v-nose (not enough hitch exposure) straight beam hitch such as the chipper in pic or even a regular tow bar. Any of these type tows would be a disaster with the Hensley.




Nick

 

[AH64ID]

Yes in the first case for sure. In the second video it did not go over until it got out of shape far enough to trip. But no one it going to change your mind, so you will continue your dis-service to those towing bumper pulls. SNOKING

Sorry but the disservice is coming from those posts like yours that don't bother addressing the issue and would rather apply a bandaid.

The safest and best option is a properly loaded/built trailer. If you actually think otherwise I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale...

 

[tommyturbo]

The OP of this thread did the right thing by asking other TDR members for advice. What better place
could you find such vast knowledge and experience. So many times members helping members with
genuine first hand experience. It's that first hand experience with results that's compelling.
For example, a member with a rated single rear wheel tow vehicle had trouble controlling a new
trailer towing home from the dealer. That was a genuine real world happening true unbiased
event. The member asks, what should I do next? The answer given is correct: Investigate and correct
all the trailer faults and improper trailer loading. Great stuff. Now, because time was running out, what this member did instead
was have an RV shop suggested sway device installed. All the sway problems then
disappeared. It's hard to argue with first hand results. From then on the member went on many more TT
trips without any regards to trailer issues and improper balance loading. Just, "hitch and go!".
Another member said that these events were not true and were just made up and need an "independent neutral
testing agency" to determine whether the sway device works. What's that all about? What better way could you
find these results than from first hand experience! This doubting member would be better off instead proving
that a sway device doesn't work. It's on him and not the ones with first hand experience.
As one saying goes, " It is better to remain silent and be considered a fool, then to open one's mouth
and remove all doubt."

 

[SnoKing]

The OP of this thread did the right thing by asking other TDR members for advice. What better place
could you find such vast knowledge and experience. So many times members helping members with
genuine first hand experience. It's that first hand experience with results that's compelling.
For example, a member with a rated single rear wheel tow vehicle had trouble controlling a new
trailer towing home from the dealer. That was a genuine real world happening true unbiased
event. The member asks, what should I do next? The answer given is correct: Investigate and correct
all the trailer faults and improper trailer loading. Great stuff. Now, because time was running out, what this member did instead
was have an RV shop suggested sway device installed. All the sway problems then
disappeared. It's hard to argue with first hand results. From then on the member went on many more TT
trips without any regards to trailer issues and improper balance loading. Just, "hitch and go!".
Another member said that these events were not true and were just made up and need an "independent neutral
testing agency" to determine whether the sway device works. What's that all about? What better way could you
find these results than from first hand experience! This doubting member would be better off instead proving
that a sway device doesn't work. It's on him and not the ones with first hand experience.
As one saying goes, " It is better to remain silent and be considered a fool, then to open one's mouth
and remove all doubt."

Here here! SNOKING

#ad

 

[crispyboy]

There has been much research done in the area of sway. If you want to pay the money for the documents there are several written by the Society of Automotive Engineers". Try a google search.

If sway wasn't such a problem then why do all the new trucks sold come with electronic TSC (trailer sway control). I see this as more of an after thought that tries to control sway after it happens. Having the anti-sway hitch installed before towing you will have a better chance at controlling the behavior of the trailer so it does not happen.

Apparently the issue of sway has crossed the mind of Chrysler. I clipped a page from my owners manual that addresses anti-sway hitches and their safety.

 

[AH64ID]

well put tommy.

If sway wasn't such a problem then why do all the new trucks sold come with electronic TSC (trailer sway control). I see this as more of an after thought that tries to control sway after it happens. Having the anti-sway hitch installed before towing you will have a better chance at controlling the behavior of the trailer so it does not happen.

I could see several reasons as to why they have it.

1) Marketing. It is a perceived issue so why not address it and gain some sales from uneducated buyers. Similar to the perception a V-8 diesel is better than a I-6.

2) Most 1/2 tons come with P rated tires. When installed in a non-passenger car application they are already derated to 91% of the sidewall load limits. P tires are really too soft for towing applications so if there is a trailer issue the P tires will add to it. It's easier to install a electronic limit and keep the P ride than install the proper tires for the use.

3) If a vehicle manufacturer is getting grief from its owners for a trailer issue and they are tired of it they can implement a change. This is similar to why we no longer have a real oil pressure gauge in our trucks. The mfgr's do what makes them the most money and spending time on warranty claims isn't making money. Yes I know people who have taken their rigs into warranty service for improper trailer issues.. all of them were 1/2 tons and poorly loaded trailers.




I, personally, am not saying they don't work (the HA/PP work the best of the bunch), what I am saying is that if you load your properly built trailer correctly they aren't needed. Fix the issue instead of band-aiding it. The improper loading is still there even if it's masked.

 

[GAmes]

It's hard to argue with first hand results.

First off, I'm waiting to hear the results of your inspection. If your trailer was swaying, and a gizmo stopped it from swaying, you just applied a band-aid. Period.

My literal hundreds of thousands of towing experience is dismissed because I have a CTD duelly. Here is some other experience. Towing a pop-up camper from VA to OR and back with a '68 Datsun SW. Several DITY moves in the Army towing loaded utility trailers behind a '76 Datsun pick-up (that my brother called a quarter pounder). Quite a few towing miles with an '85 shortbed Chevy pickup too. Yet someone who by default admits he doesn't believe his own blarney by not having a "sway control" device installed when he hooks up a bumper pull is supposed to be taken seriously? All that has been provided by the zealots is hearsay and internet myth that has been promoted by the hitch industry. Not one reply to the pertinent questions asked, just more of the same mumbo jumbo about SUVs. So here it is, if someone is dumb enough to believe the internet myths and chooses to spend money on a benign addition to a WD hitch it doesn't affect me in the least. However, a true believer will be attaching it to all bumper pull trailers, not just TTs.

 

[GCroyle]

However, a true believer will be attaching it to all bumper pull trailers, not just TTs.

Been watching and reading this one, not going to claim know it all status in any way shape or form.

I do look at other vehicles with ball pull rigs, boats, all manner of landscape rigs, bigger box race car type haulers behind a pickup, and today a rental hydraulic track hoe on a tandem axle trailer behind a 1/2 or 3/4 T, couldn't see the model info. But what I saw told me they were floating on the ball, no tongue weight. We were in stop and go traffic and just as the driver slowed I saw the hitch tip up sharply, it sure looked like if anything it was balanced on the ball from this ONE observation. IT moved so much, I looked to see if it popped off of the ball.

I don't know why TT's use all manner of SC WDH hitches. I know why I have one, as a newbie a few years ago my 30' almost 10K used trailer came with one so I adopted it. And I do have comfortable (knock on wood) towing with a 1100#+ tongue weight.

This is possibly the most debated TT vs TV topic that exists.

Lots of Kool Aid in many flavors. I try to pour my own thanks.