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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Fuel Plate Q?

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Guys,

I am looking for a fuel plate for my 97' P7100. Confusing to say the least! What do the numbers signify? I would think that the numbers (0-12) would relate to "more fuel" or "less fuel".. BUT I see #6 mud / race plates and #12 mud / race plates for sale? How can numbers that far apart BOTH be racing plates?

Looking at using the 330B marine injectors, most seem pleased with these. But what to do about a plate? Is the OEM marine 330B fuel plate a good option, any different from my stock plate?

Not interested in radical, just some HP upgrades within the confines of the stock turbo.

Thanks
 
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Assuming you have the 215 HP engine, TST offers several plates "Power Kits", with #12 being mildest, then 11 which will max out your turbo's ability to keep egt's down, and 10 which is very strong, I dynoed it about 350 HP, 860 ft-b iirc but requires more turbo. I tried 300 marine injectors and they performed poorly with the Ram's piston bowl; 375 mairnes were much better. Go back to olds TDR issues beginning with #23 for my many dyno tests of 12 valve stuff.
 
Remove the plate and get AFC Line tuner then 5x12 or 5x14 inj. Marine inj are 155* spray and 145* spray inj is best for second gen pistons.
 
Stay away from the marine 155* nozzles/injectors. There are lots of options for 145* spray. 5, 6 and 7 holes for better atomization at certain rpms/boost.

A #10 plate will be less expensive and provide a lot more power. Have you considered valvesprings and a 4000rpm kit. Its a shame to spool up the turbo then shift 1000rpm later.
 
I've been running City Diesel plain jane 370 marine injectors for years, they are hazy suckers. But cheap! My truck runs hard with them, so I do like them. The 330 injectors are not as good because of the spray pattern. I'm running a #6 TST plate in my 160 pump, with the 191 DV's and 370's I can black out the road if I want, you really, really, really need a bigger turbo with 370's.

If your keeping the stock turbo then stick with a sensible fuel plate and no large injectors.
 
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Don't go sliding the 10 full frward wtih a 215 pump unless you have lots of turbo, or egt's will be very high at full power. And, that will be the time you need to port the head or it will crack between intake and exhaust seats, and to the injector holes.
 
See my sig.
I've had 370's and bumped timing for a while now (otherwise it's stock) It wakes it up a little, however there's NO EGT problems what so ever.
I have an #11 TST sitting on the shelf in the garage for almost 10 yrs now. I wont install it until I do the clutch.
It still gets about 20MPG's on the highway.:D
 
Not to high jack the thread, but a question for Joe.

Do you have any idea what the specs are on DD3 (Diesel Dynamics Stage 3) injectors? How many holes? What size holes? Spray angle?

Thanks.
 
Assuming you have the 215 HP engine
No, mine is the 180hp, pretty sure that's what most 97s have with the auto trans & 3.55 gear. I think the 215hp came in the manual trucks? Thanks for the inputs guys, but the fuel plate numbering system still has me confused.

I need to change the injectors, these are original units and have 408,000 on them. Maybe this engine has lasted so long and is in such good condition BECAUSE it's only 180hp LOL.
 
For $330 you can get the 300 or 370 injectors from here: https://www.citydiesel.net/12v-high-performance-parts-c-22_26_49.html?page=1&osCsid=jouiu11cfbr8bjh27390nicfb1

Those guys are kinda local for me, I'm running their 370's. They also sell fuel plates, but I got mine from TST here: http://www.tstproducts.com/tstpowerkitwithoutvideowithkdpkit.aspx

Here is the TST plate chart:
pklisting.gif


You probably want a TST #8 with the 180 pump and find some stock injectors or maybe some used 215 take outs. Depends on your transmission health and build. But many guys like the marine 300 injectors on the early trucks. I probably should have gone the 300 route, my 370's are over kill...

The 230hp/605tq rating will put a hurt on a stock transmission just running empty. I put over 60K on my stock auto with the 230/605 set up till it started slipping, but I was towing a heavy 5th wheel. Trans kept getting hot when towing slow, having a good torque converter is key. My DTT will idle a 40' 5th wheel into a CG site now, a good well matched torque converter is life altering. I love my DTT 47RH, best upgrade ever.

pklisting.gif
 
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What type gains could I expect with;

1) Just adding the 300hp marine injectors?
2) Adding the 300hp marine injectors AND move the stock fuel plate forward?

BTW my trans is in good condition, shifts firm and doesn't slip at all. It currently has 140K on it. It was built by a really good local speed / trans shop. I rarely tow. The OEM trans lasted 260K prior to the rebuild.

Thanks
 
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No, mine is the 180hp, pretty sure that's what most 97s have with the auto trans & 3.55 gear. I think the 215hp came in the manual trucks? Thanks for the inputs guys, but the fuel plate numbering system still has me confused.

I need to change the injectors, these are original units and have 408,000 on them. Maybe this engine has lasted so long and is in such good condition BECAUSE it's only 180hp LOL.

I am a Factory-trained Bosch P7100 Dodge 5.9 technician and I believe that your lost performance is NOT a need for performance injectors....especially exotic ones....extrude hones, etc. If you want to keep power modest, then simply pull your old injectors and have them pop-tested at a shop that does that. You will most likely get told that they are well over 1000psi below acceptable pop pressure. Getting them rebuilt with new Bosch nozzles will restore the performance and the change in truck behavior will be very noticeable. Crisper throttle response, better torque, and better overall snap and grunt. Of course, there are performance options....for your truck I would recommend the new Bosch injector P/N 0-432-133-753 injectors. These are a 50hp drop-in replacement injector. They are made to work with an unmodified injection pump. These or the new stock injectors, coupled with a judicious amount of tweeking (read small adjustments in stages) of the boost aneroid of the pump to adjust the "when" the boost fuel comes in will go a huge long way to waking the truck up. Most Dodge owners, and a lot of the aftermarket guys out there truly don't understand exactly how diesel injection really works. It isn't just a matter of how many holes the nozzle has, nor is it a matter of how big the holes are....these are just parts of the whole picture. The biggest impact on injection efficiency is the sharpness of the edges of the exit holes of the nozzle. This is where atomization occurs. Even with bigger holes or more of them, as these "bigger" injectors have, most are going to be extrude hone nozzles...and that process erodes the sharp exit edges off the nozzle. While the holes get bigger, the edges go away, leaving you with a nozzle that has gobs of power at higher rpms, but has a tendency to smoke black or bluish off idle and when applying power at lower rpms. Other aftermarket injectors may have brand new manufactured nozzles of some other name brand or no name brand at all. Some are good, some okay, most, though, are junk. Their metallurgy is just not up to the par needed to live in the high temps and harsh environments of a diesel engine.
I would also recommend, if you haven't addressed it yet, take a serious look at your piston supply pump, fuel preheater, the elbow hose between them, and the grommet at the supply inlet into the preheater. These are the most overlooked areas that can adversely affect the 5.9's performance. I have read other posts how it is recommended to pull the preheater and clean/replace the screen. This is a waste of time. Most likely, the preheater is an original unit and you will find that the electrical pins going into the side of the preheater are seeping fuel. You won't see a leak since the weather gasket seals it pretty good. But air, being 1000 time smaller in molecule size, can easily slip in during suction...this aerates the diesel fuel making it "spongy" to the fuel injection pump. Fuel cannot be compressed, but air can...so part of your effective injection pump stroke is being used up just compressing the air bubbles until they equalize with the fuel pressure so that the injector can even open......this shows up as timing retarded in the truck's behavior.

John
 
Thank you John, excellent write up. I would say that my truck currently runs well, for what it is... 408K on a 180hp engine. The engine burns no oil, has little if any blow by and doesn't "black" the oil at all, not bad for 400,000+ miles!

I would say 50hp adder sounds about right for my needs, just looking for a "little" more acceleration (passing in a tight spot is an issue) and towing capacity. It's hard not to want a bit more when you compare my engine to what is pushing the modern trucks! But hey, mine does get much better mileage than the new ones.

I live in a southern climate, shouldn't I just remove the fuel pre-heater?
 
Yes, remove fuel pre-heater and put fresh gaskets in. Geno's has the strainer service kit and upper gasket.

With a daily driver I would stick with a known profile like a TST #8 with your 180 pump as they recommend in the chart for a mild truck and leave the stock injectors alone if its running good now. With 600 plus torque a TST #8 will spice things up without effecting egt bad. Going into injectors and the rest with a fuel plate means you need a serious auto transmission.

Many guys have 215 injectors laying around, but do you want to push your auto transmission harder? It takes money to build a tough trans, they ain't cheap. If your trans is built right with the upgraded shafts, gears, clutches, custom VB, tight TC and such it may handle 700 to 800 pounds of torque? I wish I had a local trans shop that built tough diesel autos, I had to get mine via crate.
 
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Let me get my flame suit on.
My #5 fuel plate is in my tool box. been plate less since 09. Truck did weigh over 11k till last week.
 
Its my understanding your better off grinding a zero plate than no plate at all. Something about damaging a pin? I'm no expert, but its dirt cheap to grind your own zero plate. My TST #6 is plenty with the DV's and 370 injectors using the little 160 auto trans pump. :)
 
I'm not a 12v guru, but I certainly would trust Joe or Tst to give me adbice.
What I do know however, is that you should probably start with a fuel plate and GSK then rebuild or upgrade injectors as necessary to achieve desired results. While the 180 pump can be limited on fuel for all out hp, I bet it will max out your turbo and auto trans no problem.
 
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