Hensley Arrow advanced towing system

[RustyJC]

This one is 4x4 note the t-case.

Nick

OK, missed that. As you were....

Rusty

 

[crispyboy]

Perhaps it is my inexperience which makes me feel the trailer moves less when a large truck passes when I am using the Equal-I-Zer; perhaps Games and AH64ID are correct ( and they may be, as they have probably multiples of hundreds more experience than I do. ) Regardless, if I feel better and more at ease when a large truck passes or a sudden wind gust, then I am less likely to make an error in my own driving. So, until I have the hundreds of thousands of miles of experience rather than the two or three thousand that I do have, I see no harm in using the Equal-I-Zer. The cost wasn't much different than a WDH alone, so seemed like a reasonable approach.

Russell5000,
I am glad you took the time to dial-in your Equalizer hitch. The Equalizer is both a weight distributing and anti-sway hitch. You did the right and responsible thing for your family and others on the road by making your rig safer for the highway. Also you are correct and in paying attention in how your trailer is being loaded, condition of the suspension, running gear and tires.
As you stated in your other thread " I have experienced the feel of the trailer moving from side to side from a passing truck when I was too lazy to swap hitches and was just taking my travel trailer back from the dealer lot to the storage lot (a little less than five miles). The feeling is noticeably different when a large truck passes depending on whether the plain ball hitch is used or the Equal-I-Zer hitch is used. I have no idea if the Equal-I-Zer hitch is "preventing" sway; I can just say that it DOES feel more stable with the Equal-I-Zer hitch."
As you have stated you can feel when driving both with and without your equalizer hitch HOW MUCH BETTER AND MORE STABLE THE TRAILER IS. A driver doesn't always know where the sudden gust of wind comes from or what type of hazard is in the road that you have to make an emergency stop or maneuver - the hitch helps in keeping your rig right side up.
These hitches do work as advertised and don't let others tell you otherwise as their misinformation is careless in nature.

 

[GAmes]

As you stated in your other thread " I have experienced the feel of the trailer moving from side to side from a passing truck when I was too lazy to swap hitches and was just taking my travel trailer back from the dealer lot to the storage lot (a little less than five miles). The feeling is noticeably different when a large truck passes depending on whether the plain ball hitch is used or the Equal-I-Zer hitch is used. I have no idea if the Equal-I-Zer hitch is "preventing" sway; I can just say that it DOES feel more stable with the Equal-I-Zer hitch."
As you have stated you can feel when driving both with and without your equalizer hitch HOW MUCH BETTER AND MORE STABLE THE TRAILER IS. A driver doesn't always know where the sudden gust of wind comes from or what type of hazard is in the road that you have to make an emergency stop or maneuver - the hitch helps in keeping your rig right side up.
These hitches do work as advertised and don't let others tell you otherwise as their misinformation is careless in nature.

I thought this thread was put to bed, but I can't ignore the insinuation that my information is "careless in nature". The highlighted in red sentence is the same bologna that the hitch manufacturers have been feeding the gullible for decades. You repeat it like a parrot, yet don't provide anything to substantiate it. Ever heard of a lever? A lever is a mechanism that can be used to exert a large force over a small distance at one end of the lever by exerting a small force over a greater distance at the other end of the lever. The formula is
Fe = Fl dl / de (1)

where

Fe = effort force (N, lb)

Fl = load force (N, lb) (note that weight is a force)

dl = distance from load force to fulcrum (m, ft)

de = distance from effort force to fulcrum (m, ft)

Please explain in which world that a trailer that weighs thousands of pounds can be controlled by something as insignificant as a "sway control" device. Please explain why you don't use a "sway control" device on all the ball hitch trailers you pull.

" it DOES feel more stable with the Equal-I-Zer hitch" is subjective, and more than likely the result of the placebo effect. I've pulled a loaded, privately owned TT with a Reese Dual Cam High-Performance Sway Control device for thousands of miles and felt no difference when pulling the same trailer, again for several thousand miles, with my plain Jane round bar WD hitch. Since it has 30 ft of length, the push-pull of passing trucks was easily leveraged past the limited resistance the Reese provided.

If a "sudden gust of wind comes from or what type of hazard is in the road that you have to make an emergency stop or maneuver" is so severe that the truck & trailer swap ends a chintzy steel device won't make one bit of difference. It is foolish to believe that one will.

 

[RustyJC]

The simple lever system analogy is incorrect. Try a driven oscillator system, as I've cited several times in this thread. The drawbar pull from the tow vehicle, the velocity of the trailer and the "spring" in the sidewalls of the trailer tires provide the power to drive the oscillator system. The anti-sway system adds additional damping to the oscillator system, which serves to change the system response. The damping force does NOT have to be that large to return the oscillator system to a stable state, or to prevent the oscillations from beginning in the first place.

Rusty

 

[SnoKing]

If you listen to GAmes logic, then 75 percent of the bumper pull travel trailers should not be on the road, as about that many can not handle the dead weight of the hitch and maintain any semblance for usable handling on the road(we are talking about all those smaller SUVs and 150/1500 and smaller pickups).

The genie is out of the bottle so to speak, and it will not fit back in.

However this thread has gone way off track as to what hitches like the Hensley Arrow and similar ones provide.

And yes back in the 70's I pulled two different TT with first a 63 Sub and then a 74 K10 SNB. Sub rear axle was equal or heavier than the front, the Chevy was like any other pickup, that is front heavy. Both used the same Equal-i-Zer.

SNOKING

 

[tommyturbo]

GAmes. But wait, there's more! I would like to mention that my TT recently underwent a maintenance
lube and inspection check. No other service needed. With that maybe I would "assume" the undercarriage
is up to snuff which points to the other possible causes of towing mishandling like trailer design and improper
loading. I am fully aware. Maybe I will never know the causes. I just keep on truckin' anyway.

 

[GAmes]

If you listen to GAmes logic, then 75 percent of the bumper pull travel trailers should not be on the road,

No, that is your logic. My logic is all those TTs whose owners, and all of us transporters, who didn't drink the kool-aid are just as safe without a sway gimmick.

It amazes me you posted a paper that confirms my beliefs, yet snipe at me from the shadows and I know why. If you answered my questions truthfully, the answers wouldn't fit your dialog.

 

[GAmes]

The simple lever system analogy is incorrect. Try a driven oscillator system, as I've cited several times in this thread. The drawbar pull from the tow vehicle, the velocity of the trailer and the "spring" in the sidewalls of the trailer tires provide the power to drive the oscillator system. The anti-sway system adds additional damping to the oscillator system, which serves to change the system response. The damping force does NOT have to be that large to return the oscillator system to a stable state, or to prevent the oscillations from beginning in the first place.

Rusty

So are you saying a "sway control" device is capable of preventing the wreck of the TT that SNOKING posted?

 

[RustyJC]

So are you saying a "sway control" device is capable of preventing the wreck of the TT that SNOKING posted?

All I said is that damping forces added to a driven (forced) oscillator system cause a change in system response. An undamped system will, due to the energy being input, increase its excursions on every cycle (just as you see sway building up on some of these videos). The response of a system to underdamping, overdamping and critical damping is given mathematically and graphically HERE.

Rusty

 

[GAmes]

Unfortunately, if there was actually a system that could prevent sway, there isn't a dealer alive who could compute how much of "damper" is correct for any trailer on his lot. With identical hitches sold to the 20 and 35 footers it is ludicrous to assume that either will prevent a mishap, regardless of the tow vehicle. Leverage might be an oversimplification of the lateral forces that cause sway, but apparently there are those who can not even fathom that concept. I challenge any of the believers to tell me a "sway control" device of any kind would control the trailer I pictured and be convincing.

I'm off to deliver a couple death sentence bumper pull trailers, one to El Paso, the other to southern Colorado. Pray for my safe return.

 

[SnoKing]

You mean the large load of poop? SNOKING

 

[RustyJC]

The damping factor doesn't have to be calculated to be spot-on "critical". As the paper I cited above demonstrated, the varying degrees of damping only affect the decay curves - the system behavior and time required to return to a stable state. What IS critical is that the system has sufficient damping to decay back to a stable state as opposed to the amplitudes of the excursions growing greater and greater with every cycle as can occur with an undamped driven oscillator system.

Apart from the damping issue, moving the center of gravity of the trailer (i.e., moving weight fore and aft) affects the period of the oscillator system (the natural frequency - just like moving the weight on the pendulum of a grandfather clock up or down) as well as the amount of momentum stored up at the end of every oscillation cycle (there's less momentum with the weight forward than hanging out at the end of the trailer).

Rusty

 

[tommyturbo]

GAmes. No wonder you are getting so much opposite feedback from members. Looks like
the overwhelming first hand experience with sway control devices shows they are a benefit.
How would you call so many of them liars. I don't think so. So the testing and research
verdict is already in. Well proven from honest, hardworking, helpful members.
Now it is up to you to prove that sway control devices do not work. I and others
are dying to know the results from your testing. You might even list first hand experiences,
well proven from honest, hardworking, helpful members.
I will be waiting for what you find. I am a patient man.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

This discussion has eclipsed my technical knowledge. My technical training is in math/statistics. It has been almost 35 years since my last physics class.

I tried to Google out a study on sway control hitches but did not find one from other than a manufacturer. The fact that the author is the manufacturer does not in itself prove the study is incorrect. I wanted to find an unrelated study. I should say I only looked for a while.

I'd welcome someone pointing to a study either way. It seems beliefs are as deeply held as motor oil brands. Makes me think this would be a great TDR subject, like the series of articles on lube oil.

Maybe GAmes is correct and my "feel" is all placebo effect. The hitch is paid for; it is a good weight-distributing hitch (my level and the Cat scale prove that); can't hurt; so I will probably never go without to find out whether it is placebo effect or not.

Back to the original question: any difference between the $500 Equal-I-Zer and the $2,500 Hensley. GAmes is certain there is not, as the sway control property of both is mythical. Other opinions?

 

[GCroyle]

This is a really important topic and we sure do have some inputs. Again, I try not to drink or pass out Kool Aid.

Does anyone see any parallel to the relationship of this topic to the relationship of shock absorbers to springs? Springs carry the weight and left uncontrolled, man oh man does that axle bounce given the chance, but add correctly tuned shocks and presto chango big difference, no bouncy bouncy.

 

[ACoyle]

Hi Everyone ACoyle here. After skimming this thread, there is a lot of good information her and considerable difference of opinion. I am not knowledge enough to separate the wheat from the chaff, but, I do know the guidelines require civility in all cases. Therefore, please keep it civil. Thank you - Andy. As always if there are questions or disagreements with what I said, please PM me, Robin, Steve or any of the other moderators.

 

[GAmes]

GAmes. No wonder you are getting so much opposite feedback from members. Looks like
the overwhelming first hand experience with sway control devices shows they are a benefit.
How would you call so many of them liars. I don't think so. So the testing and research
verdict is already in. Well proven from honest, hardworking, helpful members.
Now it is up to you to prove that sway control devices do not work. I and others
are dying to know the results from your testing. You might even list first hand experiences,
well proven from honest, hardworking, helpful members.
I will be waiting for what you find. I am a patient man.

For clarity, my position isn't that "sway control" devices do not work, and once again, I have never said anyone is a liar. My position is that they are not needed. If my hundreds of thousands of towing miles aren't enough to establish that, what about all the other ball hitch trailers going down the road without sway devices. Since my last correspondence I towed three more ball hitch trailers to their destinations, and payed more attention to the vehicles with trailers that passed me. A Porsche Cayenne, a Dodge Caravan, a Honda car, a F150 and a SRW Dodge pickup with the longest TT I've ever seen. None of them with a sway gimmick. It was windy (west TX), and there were the normal amount of moron drivers on the road, yet none of the trailers were swaying. Imagine that.

Prove it does not work? How does having nothing prove nothing does not work?? That would be like proving that doing nothing will cure Gonorrhea. Pretty stupid, huh? The only way
to do any testing on my part would be to rig a trailer so that it sways, then buy some gimmick hitch and see if it doesn't sway. In that case I would be proving that something does nothing, a far more realistic experiment. There are institutions that have the capability to perform experiments, under controlled conditions, that prove that something does something.
Those results would be readily available if the claims made by hitch manufacturers were true. The government would mandate "sway control" devices if it were true. I would be required to use a "sway control" hitch if it were true. I am required to use WD when pulling any ball hitch trailer, if possible, by the insurance carrier of the company I work for, so mandating "sway control devices"to transporters would be well within their rights.

Actually, there is no "first hand experience with sway control devices shows they are a benefit" and what has been shown is far less than "overwhelming". There has been no "testing and research" by "honest, hardworking, helpful members". Other than me, who has towed the same trailer, for thousands of miles, with both a simple WD hitch AND a so called "sway control" hitch? Who has provided any evidence that a "sway contol device" will prevent wrecks caused by a swaying trailer? You went from no WD to a Equal-i-zer 90001000 Equalizer Hitch. What makes you think (other than the BS myths) that it wasn't employing WD that stopped the "sway" you had? Are you willing to restore your trailer to the condition it was in and just use a plain WD hitch to see if it sways? I'd wager you wouldn't. You aren't that convinced are you? Have you EVER considered installing a "sway control" device on any other ball hitch trailer you have hooked up? That is MY testing and research, YOU don't even believe they are needed. No need to thank me for not testing your patience.

In all fairness, I knew you would never find any evidence that any of the gimmick hitches actually are capable of preventing sway. I also knew you wouldn't find any evidence that blowouts cause sway, wind gusts cause sway, passing trucks cause sway or avoiding moron drivers cause sway. I'm reminded of the old days, with nothing better to do than dupe a new 2nd LT into going out for 50 ft of flight line. The butterbar would go from hanger to hanger, often times asking another soldier who was aware of the ruse and would point him to
another possible source. Eventually the LT would encounter CPT SNOKING who would claim the flight line was in the possession of SGT Herman Nelson, who was in the motor pool. The LT would finally deduce he had been scammed when he found out SGT Herman Nelson didn't exist.

I was mystified why people who apparently have intelligence and common sense would sign up for the sway control myths that have no tangible evidence. I did a little research and found there are other examples, and there has even been a book written about the cause. It is called cognitive bias. Other examples are the CIA killed LBJ and split speed limits cause wrecks.

 

[Alphonse]

For clarity, my position isn't that "sway control" devices do not work, and once again, I have never said anyone is a liar. ... ...

Unfortunately your numerous posts on this thread are a matter of black and white. Your posts have been derogatory and filled with language, arguments, and verbiage of a Troll. Here are a few of your choice words: "Zealots, BS, Internet Myth, mumbo jumbo, gullible, dumb, naïve, hypocrites, and liars."

 

[GAmes]

Here is another. Out of context.

 

[tommyturbo]

GAmes. I have to admit I am guilty by contributing to the banter cluttering the TDR forum pages. Mine was more of reacting and not
thinking clearly. I will never forget the terrifying experience taking home our nice TT that spoiled our day to say the least. And I don't
know why or how the sway device took care of the problem. So naturally I became a fan of these devices if needed. So when you
say this event didn't happen, it's is the same as calling me and others liars. Calling one a liar when a true event occurred is a bit
strong and by human nature is taken as hurtful and then immediately turns into some anger. I have put myself in your shoes to try to
understand where you are coming from. It looks like from all your years of towing experience that nowhere ever did you have any event
that showed that sway devices would be a benefit. I sincerely believe you. I would never call you a liar. Imagine the little kids playing
in a sandbox. One kid gets a little sand in the face another picks up a toy shovel and bops the other on the head. Pretty soon
all the kids are roughing it up. Sound familiar? That is how wars get started. There are TDR members that take the time to post
some information or answer a question from their own personal experience with the thought of benefiting others. Some opinions
are based on actual events and some are just well informed. All of these posts are there for the viewing and offer a great amount of
information. I would suggest that opinions backed up by experience or not should be best left alone and let the viewer evaluate
the whole topic and make their own conclusions.
Tom
P.S. I welcome any further discussion on this topic away from this forum if you desire, by PM or phone anytime.