Factory paint ?

[Deleted member 995608]

What does your local dealer say about it? I'd try to get some help on the local level before I'd let a body shop strip my truck to bare metal.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

What does your local dealer say about it? I'd try to get some help on the local level before I'd let a body shop strip my truck to bare metal.

This was my plan. Already talked to them I just haven't had an opportunity to bring it in yet.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Ok, I brought my '14 to the body shop at the dealership I bought it from. They also said that the sudden impact probably caused the paint and primer to pop off the panel. This I understand. Out of curiosity, I asked if they knew if the primer coat would be the same color as the paint itself. The two guys both said not likely. So I pulled another flake of the paint off and showed them both sides and I asked, ok, where's the primer then? One of the guys couldn't answer and the other guy said, well, maybe it is the same color. Then I asked about this "e" coat. The one guy mumbled something then said that it was a factory coat, they don't do that there. I said, but now it is down to bare metal as it is already rusting. He said, primer will take care of that. No *****!! So, I'm pretty much right back to square one with no answers to my questions.

JHawes, the stripping to bare metal was on my '97, which I do not have anymore. I would not have hesitated to let them do it, as the entire truck was rusted over. I sold the truck instead to a guy who bed linered the entire truck.

 

[Badunit]

Primer-less paint systems exist. I don't know what Ram uses. With the moves to less cost, less energy, and less pollution during manufacturing, it seems like it is the direction of the future.

This article is about the Jeep but it mentions use of primer-less technology.

http://www.fcagroup.com/plants/en-US/Pernambuco/sustainability/Pages/default.aspx

"Energy efficiency solutions have been included at all stages of the production process and involve the management and implementation of new technologies and modern equipment which have a positive environmental impact. Another innovation is at the Paint Shop. The Jeep plant doesn’t have a Primer stage, which has been replaced with a Primerless technology. The Shop uses water-based paint with minimum use of solvents. In fact, the new process reduces energy consumption, as well as providing a significant drop in CO2​ emission and reduction of waste generation."

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Interesting article.

 

[Bill]

Perhaps you should shop for a new body shop. This is right from the Body Service Information in TechConnect.

31 - Collision Information/Standard Procedure

BASE COAT/CLEARCOAT FINISH

The original equipment paint finish is a multi step process that involves cleaning, applying electro de-position (E-coat), anti-chip primer, basecoat, and clearcoat steps.


CAUTION:
Do not use abrasive chemicals, abrasive compounds or harsh alkaline based cleaning solvents on the painted surfaces of a vehicle. Failure to follow this caution can result in damage to vehicle finish.

On most vehicles a two-part paint application (basecoat/clearcoat) is used. Color paint that is applied to primer is called basecoat. A clear coat paint is then applied to protect the basecoat from ultraviolet light and to provide a durable high-gloss finish.

The very first thing a person should do in order to ensure their paint will last plus look excellent is to "Clay Bar" it. This can be done with a regular block of clay bar or there is now a fairly new product out that is kinda like a piece of paper. The reason one wants to do this procedure is to remove any minute rail dust that comes off the wheels of trains that transport vehicles or if vehicles are hauled to a dealership by trucks that are built to do this, your new vehicle is collecting dust from the air,tree sap, bird droppings, brake dust off the truck that is hauling them, etc. Before you take possession of your vehicle, it should be washed. After that, take your fingers or put your fingers in a small plastic bag and lightly rub them across each section of the vehicle. You will fill as if you are lightly touching sandpaper. This STUFF, if not removed can work its way through the clearcoat of the vehicle. If it is brake dust or any other minute metals, over a period of time as this works against the clearcoat/paint, you will begin to see very small circles of rust. Dealers know about this but figure the future owner does not. Plus they don't want to take the lot boys away from their duties in order to clay bar it. While using clay bar or the other product, use a spray on lubricant such as Detail Spray. Spray that on first then start with the clay bar. Gently move in a horizontal position, stopping often to inspect the clay bar. You will quickly see how dirty it will become. Even if you drop a new clay bar on the floor of your garage, throw it away and start using a new one. You won't be able to see some of what will stick to it. When that happens, just work the clay "inwards" so you have a clean section and continue. When each small section is done, wipe the lubricant off with ONLY a very soft microfiber towel. With the other type of clay product, just put it under some running water and it will remove any particles. You can also use the "clay Bar" to do all the windows on your vehicle. It will take off water spots and other road contamination.

When you have clayed the entire vehicle, one can re-wash it or not. Now that it's been clayed, it has taken some of the shine off of the paint. Also you will be able to see better, any small scratches in the paint. There is a way to remove those scratches. You then need to apply a "Sealant" either by hand or using a detailing buffing machine with a special pad to apply the sealant with. Do one section of the vehicle at a time (one fender, etc). Let it dry and again using a thick microfiber towel, pressing lightly, remove the sealant ~ move in just one direction or you can do the same thing by using a buffer. If you are not use to a buffer, simply stay with the microfiber towels. If buffing, just apply light pressure. You do not want to heat up the paint and burn through the clearcoat. That's a huge problem that would take a long time to discuss. Once the entire truck has been sealed, you can then apply another coat if you want but it's not required. Sealant is a Synthetic chemical coumpound used to provide long lasting protection to automotive finishes. Typically sealants offfer the best protection against the elements, and feature very bright, mirror-like reflective properties. This would be like your last line of protection once other products you put on, wear off

Once you are done sealing, you may want to try a very good wax like Carnuba. This look will give you a very deep, wet, glossy finish. Once again apply small sections at a time. It will dry fairly fast. Then use that extra thick microfiber towel, wiping in one direction, to remove it.

There are different polishes, glazes, etc that you can utilize to maintain an excellent shine. Most people are not looking for a showroom shine, just a shine that will protect the entire paint.

In order to keep all the contaminations off your vehicle, you should go through this procedure every six months. One part of the truck that will be the worst as far as dirt, etc, is the rear end, especially the tail gate.

I've been detailing my vehicles for over ten years. I also detail other vehicles but not on a regular basis. As far as detailing products go, I will not mention the company I deal with. Just Google Auto detailing and check each one out. Video's on YouTube.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

So, when I picked up my brand new '14 that was just AutoArmored, I was supposed to Claybar it?

 

[Bill]

So, when I picked up my brand new '14 that was just AutoArmored, I was supposed to Claybar it?

Products like this have been out for a number of years. If I remember correctly, 3M company was the first to start it. However their products seem to turn a dull yellow after four or so years. Have a local guy who does this type of installing but he uses a different company.

As far as claying goes ~ Yes ~ this was taken from their homepage:

Industrial Fall-out Removal

Industrial Fallout is hazardous minerals and gasses that are released into the atmosphere every day. This sticks, and can edge into your vehicle’s paintwork, leaving the paint surface feeling rough. Industrial Fallout is more visible on white coloured vehicles, as it appears as fine metal specs on the paint work, however, on darker cars, it is less visible, but apparent to the touch.

We apply an Industrial Fallout removal liquid on the vehicle, and go through a special claying process which effectively removes all fine particles without damaging the vehicle’s paintwork. This is what I was talking about in my original. However, this company didn't write a "book" about it like I did. :>)

Although I couldn't find it or I missed it in the article but you can apply waxe's and polishing to this material. So far I have been extremely lucky with my 2014 Laramie. Absolutely no rock chips on it anywhere. Only have just over 6,000+ miles on it. I do have rock chips on the rear fenders of my Rubicon due to having 33" tires on it. I'm sending away to a color company where you give them your VIN and they will send you the EXACT match of your paint. Extremely easy to apply. Then I am going to apply something like this. I also need to put it on the wife's Avalon. We don't drive that vehicle on out of town roads during the winter months.

These products are also great because if you live where it snows, drive in it and it has had salt applied to the roads, it will prevent the salt from sticking to your paint. This stuff is so bad where I live in Oregon, regardless of the time and when I'm coming over the mountain passes and get back into town, I immediately take my truck to a pressure washing business and get it right off. When Spring arrives and they stop using salt, I have a place where I can put the truck or vehicles on a lift and pressure was the underside of it. Can't get it out of all the small cracks but every little bit taken off, helps.

If you don't mind, can you post a picture of your truck when you get this applied? Some of these products are so thick that you can see a line where the product ends on the hoods of vehicles. So in closing, as the article states, yes the vehicle does need to be clayed. As a suggestion, I would ask the factory that once this applied to your truck, can you or should you clay the vehicle about every six months. I doubt it would do any good because no minute particles can work their way through it and then start on the clearcoat.

Thank you so much for providing the link to this product. I'm going to contact them and see where the nearest dealer is and then check some prices.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

The reason I asked is because when I picked my '14 up after being Auto Armored, I was told DO NOT clay bar, wax or wash with harsh soaps. Those would remove the coating that was just applied. I live in WI and MN and salt is a major problem here.

 

[Bill]

The reason I asked is because when I picked my '14 up after being Auto Armored, I was told DO NOT clay bar, wax or wash with harsh soaps. Those would remove the coating that was just applied. I live in WI and MN and salt is a major problem here.

Hey Tramplineman: First of all, Happy Bird Day. Your last posting where they said to not clay, wax or wash with harsh soap, came over my cell phone but not here, on my laptop. So I will answer it now.

I will be the first to admit I am not nor will I ever be an expert in the fine art of detailing. However, what they told you NOT to do goes against everything I've learned or read about. Then again I have not thoroughly explored this AutoArmore product, which I plan on doing if they are open tomorrow. What I first need to find out is all I can about this product. I know the local guy who applies a different product tells customers they can wash, wax and clay.

Clay, if used properly with a good "Detail Spray" and just very light pressure, will NOT scratch anything I've used it on. As I've said, it's sole purpose is to remove any airborne particles that settle on the vehicle. If this company has made a product that is that delicate, personally I would not put it on any of my rigs. Additionally, UV rays can play heck on most things that are left outside so again, they must have produced a product that will keep a shine for the duration of their 5 year warranty. I just can't believe that.

Washing the vehicle ~ One product that I never use unless I want to strip the wax off the vehicle is dish soap. However, I do order my washing soap from the company I get my detailing supplies from.

When I first scanned through the companies homepage, I thought I seen where there was a 5 year warranty. Just read the warranty ~ it's a 3 year "limited warranty." Just my personal thought but any warranty I buy that states it is a "limited warranty," I make darn sure I read every word on every piece of paper it is written on. The local guy who applies the different product, he gives you a five year warranty ~ full, not limited.

It also states that this company gives each vehicle a special claying process before product is applied. Additionally, it states this:
"It is recommended that after the compound a polish, Auto Armor’s Paint Protection be applied, to ensure that the colour of the vehicle is protected from fading and other hazardous environmental elements... ... That statement does concern me a little. Sounds like the film they put on will prevent rock chips but it's the other products they use that will give you a shine. So they put this thin coat of film on your vehicle THEN they want the special paint protection to be applied. The first Mercedes I bought my wife, the dealership was selling a liquid coating that went over the entire vehicle and the shine was suppose to last for many years. ONLY ~ $1,900. I passed on that one because I had seen vehicles that had it applied after a couple of years. Well this super shine was not showing. So I have to wonder if this is some kind of product along the same lines. I'll know more when I speak to them.

At first I thought this was just a film they put on the vehicle. Now, after reading more, I think I can understand why they don't want you to clay, wax or not use any harsh wash soap. Their "liquid shine" may not stand up to putting anything on it and to not do this for three years, I still find it extremely hard to believe it will do what they say.

I can put a shine on any vehicle to where you may be able to see your reflection in it. However, when a bird does his air bombing and I don't see it for a few days, I will lightly clay that particular area. Then, all I have to do is to put a small amount of wax or polish on it and the shine is right back. So until I find out more, I do not understand why you can't clay it. Also, not to use any harsh washing soap. So I believe I would be correct in assuming that they are saying that because it would remove their special liquid polish.

Well I see I have done my usual long and rambling response for which I apologize. As I said, I will call this company and find out all that I can and then get back to you. I hope this product does what they say it will do because I'm sure it wasn't cheap to put on. OH, before I forget. If this shine is so good, why do they give you a kit to maintain it? Also, I'm going to call the local guy who does this and pick his brain for any information. I've watched him apply the product he uses and know individuals who have had it done. They clay, wash and wax.

Forgot one important thing. We both deal with salt on the roads. I posted that when I return from driving on highways that have this junk on it, I head immediately for the local car wash and use their high pressure hose with soap. You can not get all the dirt or salt off by doing this but can get most of it. However, I always then wash the vehicle as soon as I can. And it goes without saying that I do CLAY the vehicle to make darn sure I get ALL the salt off of it. Hard to keep a good shine on a vehicle during the winter months. But once I do the above, I can take a "liquid" wax and spray the vehicle. So I will ask this company what one is suppose to do in a situation such as this.

 

[Dogpatch]

Up here in Canada, I'm told the rust spots are due to "Fallout" from snow plow metal filings from the blades contacting the roads when they plow snow.
The result is micro pieces of metal come in contact with the truck body and start to show minute rust spots on the surface. I'm sure salt doesn't help.
You can feel the roughness on the surface when you rub your hand across the body surface almost anywhere.
If left unattended, they will work their way through the cleat coat and paint causing further damage.

Every spring, I take my truck in to get detailed and they use a clay bar and detailing solution and reapply a clear coat protectant.

Costs me on average about $150. Smooth as a baby's bum afterwards.

A necessary evil.

 

[Bill]

When our trucks are painted at the factory, do they primer the truck first?

I've been searching the internet in an attempt to find out the exactly process our trucks go through when it comes to painting them at the factory.

This may not be even close to an answer but all I could find in a short time:

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/paint-body/hrdp-1007-painting-with-waterborne-paint/

 

[Bill]

Up here in Canada, I'm told the rust spots are due to "Fallout" from snow plow metal filings from the blades contacting the roads when they plow snow.
The result is micro pieces of metal come in contact with the truck body and start to show minute rust spots on the surface. I'm sure salt doesn't help.
You can feel the roughness on the surface when you rub your hand across the body surface almost anywhere.
If left unattended, they will work their way through the cleat coat and paint causing further damage.

Every spring, I take my truck in to get detailed and they use a clay bar and detailing solution and reapply a clear coat protectant.

Costs me on average about $150. Smooth as a baby's bum afterwards.

A necessary evil.

Yep, you are correct. Those snow plows will throw minute metal particles onto your vehicle. 18 Wheel trucks and any other vehicle you are traveling behing will also throw brake dust on your rig, expecially going downhill. And what you are feeling are those metal particles PLUS other airborne junk that we can't see, landing on our paint. If you don't mind a suggestion, when you rub your fingers, or fingers in a plastic bag, over any area of the vehicle to see it it needs to be clayed, do it gently. If not, you might not see the ever so minute scratches you are putting into the paint by rubbing to hard. If you feel the surface as being rough, take a strong LED light and holding it vertically, move it up and down until you have just the right amount of light shinning on the paint. Then you will be able to tell where these scratches are. The very best place to check for scratches is to park your vehicle in the bright sun. Look at each section of the truck from different angles. If scratches are there, you will find them. Sad thing about these little scratches is the fact that by not finding them and you then wax your vehicle, the wax is filling up the scratches. These types of scratches can be buffed out. However, when you have a scratch that looks bad, as you gently drag your fingers across that area, put a fingernail into it. If there is a little "drag" against the finger nail, one might consider wet sanding those out.

Salt, as you said, does not help any paint job. And that's why it so important to pressure wash it off as fast as you can, wash the vehicle and then clay bar it and re-apply a good coat of wax to protect it again when it's covered by salt. It's a lot of work doing this but I'd rather be in my shop with a cool one, little music going, wood stove or gas furnace keeping things warm and spend time cleaning my rigs. To some, it's a chore. To me, it's relaxing.

The thing with salt. Road departments put it on at night when it's freezing out. The next day, if the temp's warm up, you will be driving through "water." Salt is mixed right in with that water. Also, this salt is not good for your health. When they plow roads that have had salt put over them, the snow naturally goes to the side of the road and sits there until Spring. When the snow is completely melted, roads are dry and the sides of the road is dusty, you want to avoid breathing in to much of that dust because the salt is mixed in with the dirt. Might want to check out one or more of these articles: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hp....0.0.1.105187270...........0.-sI1ieBtJL8 One other good sight for the bad effects of road salt: https://www.google.com/search?sourc...hp....0.0.1.105187270...........0.-sI1ieBtJL8

The clearcoat protection that is applied to the clear coat on your vehicle. It can be a multitude of different products ~ spray, or waxes. The next time you have this claying done, can you ask the detailer to put on a complete coat of "Sealant." As I've said on here before, that would be your last line of protection before anything eats through the clear and paint. Two coats are better. Also, if you really want your truck to be thoroughly cleaned of anything on the paint, have your detailer give it an Acid Wash. No, it's not as bad as it sounds. Part Acid, part water. Spray it on, let it sit for just a minute or so and then immediately spray it off. Nothing will be left on the trucks body except the clear coat, etc. It strips EVERYTHING off. But please ensure the detail person is extremely knowledgeable about this process. I do it about once every year on my Harley Motorcycle.

$150.00 to have your vehicle clay bared and product put over the clear coat. That is a steal. I and other local detailers would, at a minimum, charge $225.00+ to do that.

 

[Bill]

I apologize for not trying to contact the Auto Armored company today. Still have a house FULL of family and guest, left over from Bird Day. Probably stay until the last piece of turkey is gone and all the pie has been eaten. :>) Was being pulled into many different directions today, trying to be a good guy and please everybody. I WILL get in touch with them ASAP and then get back to you.

 

[Dogpatch]

$150.00 to have your vehicle clay bared and product put over the clear coat. That is a steal. I and other local detailers would, at a minimum, charge $225.00+ to do that.

We get a fleet discount. Some advantages of still being in the work force.

 

[Bill]

We get a fleet discount. Some advantages of still being in the work force.

Well with that discount, it's well in line for the cost.

 

[Bill]

So, when I picked up my brand new '14 that was just AutoArmored, I was supposed to Claybar it?

Trampline: I owe you a HUGE apology for not getting back to you sooner in regards to the AutoArmore. To many physical problems going on, house guests and have had this flu bug that is going around for about 3+ weeks and can't kick it. I did find out that there is another company that owns it. And, by chance, there is a local detailer that installs this same product. I called him and he did say that you can not clay bar it but there is no reason why you can't wax it. I explained that there is a "kit" that AutoArmore gives its customers to maintain it. He said he would check into that and get back to me.

I should have brought this to your attention when I first started talking about products to apply to vehicles that won't allow rock chips. I used this on my 2007 Chevy Diesel. As you will see, if you go to this homepage ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCtkVePX_0 that this product can be applied to the front of your vehicle, the hood, your wheels, in fact if one wants to, you can apply this to your entire vehicle. Regardless where you apply it and you want to take it off, its very simple ~ you just peel it off.

The owner of this product actually did a video on YouTube where he painted an entire car with a "chrome" paint. After he did that, he then showed how to peel it off.

On my 07 Chevy, I did the front bumper, grill, around all the lights and finally, I painted a section of the hood but only went half way back. I also painted the rocker panels. That was enough to protect where almost all the rock chips happen. The truck was a darkish green. I painted all the sections black. When Spring came, I simply peeled it off. If you have custom wheels on your vehicle and want to protect them, you can simply paint them and again, peel it off if you want to go back to the original wheel color or perhaps change colors. A lot of local guys are using it.

When this product first came out, it was a dull color. However, the company now has different colors where it looks shined. It will not scratch fade or peel.

More importantly, in no way will this damage your clearcoat or paint. The hardest part of using this is taking the time to mask off the areas you don't want painted. A little expensive but well worth it. If you look on the right side of the page, you will see where you can click on other video's that show you how to paint different areas, different things. It can even be used inside your home.

I again apologize for not getting back to you sooner. However, I need to find out why the local guy says you can wax it and the AutoArmore company states you can't.

If this seems like something you are interested in, I can send you another link that does the same thing but is called a different name.

If a picture shows up on here, I have no idea what is going on. It messed up my typing so I will try again to give you the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCtkVePX_0 Well it gave me the link but if it doesn't come through and you again get that picture, send me a PM and I will give it to you that way.

Dang it, what a total messed up posting this turned out to be. You might try going to Google and type in Plastic Dip. Might try using the Internet Browser and type in www.plasticdip.com IF the picture comes through, you should be able to click on the arrow and watch the video. This is really make me mad!!!!!

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

Bill, no worries, life gets busy. Thanks for the info. I've used PlastiDip on many things. Good product and I really like how it just peels off. I believe 3M also makes a similar product that you spray on and just peel off.