Additional Dead Pedal Info

[MJWenrich]

Rather than tag on to my dead pedal update previously posted I want to be sure everyone with this problem gets a chance to read this post. Yesterday, a factory tech (engineer) met with me, hooked into the truck computer and we went for a ride. The intent was to document the throttle delay and forward to the techs at RAM. What I learned is something I suspected in the past. This dead pedal delay is directly related to trucks equipped with the Aison transmission and the HO engine. RAM is aware of the problem but does not have a fix for it. Some trucks are reported to have delays even worse than mine. I was told that if you bought a Cab and Chassis model with the Aison you would not have this significant delay. Why you might ask? I did and was told that there are not as many CARB and torque management restrictions on the CC models.

Also, the problem is more significant in the 342 rear end ratio which makes sense to me. I can eliminate some of the delay by driving in 5th which probably translates to a 373 rear end.

So the important thing for me is that RAM is aware of and has acknowledged the problem and it continues into the 2016 model year when you order the Aison. I am curious if anyone with that combination is NOT having a problem with dead pedal. If you have the 410, you probably have a lot less delay than those of us with the 342. Also I am told the 68RFE does not have this problem and it seems that is correct from what I have read on this forum, although I thought I saw one or two mentions of 2500 RFE's with it.

So my BD Diesel TSB is going back on when I get the truck back. It's in for a steering problem right now. I foresee no solution coming from RAM and maybe the aftermarket will help us out. Good fodder for May Madness discussion. If I get any further info from RAM on my problem, or resolution I will sure to advise.

Prospective buyers should probably consider the 68RFE unless you are going to tow maximum weight and need the grunt of the higher output and strength of the Aison.

One other thing mentioned. I want to put a camper on my truck and tow a trailer. If you plan to put a camper on, it was suggested you do not get the air suspension. The high center of gravity and sway with a camper will have the suspension constantly trying to level and sometimes counter to your actual conditions. In other words, fighting the roll and setting up a dangerous balance condition. I can imagine this happening and maybe a dually would not be affected as much since they are more stable with high load weight. Just something to consider. No problem towing a trailer though. Since I have a 2014 and could not get air suspension it won't be an issue for me.

 

[Boomer II]

Thanks for the update.

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I read through NHSTA's complaint files last night on Ram. There are about 40 +/- people so far that have filed complaints so far. It's on the books now, so NHSTA will have to look into this at some point.

I don't have 500 miles on my 2016/Aisin yet, and I haven't noticed any delay so far. Hoping it stays that way. On forum B, there is both 2500 & 3500 owners complaining of dead pedal, so I'm having a hard time with the Aisin only explanation.

 

[SnoKing]

I believe I can create the condition with jack rabbit style driving, which I do not normally do. Snoking

 

[Stab]

Haven't noticed any on mine but, constantly looking for it. 3.73s though.

I'm thinking the BD Diesel TSB upgrade is going to be in the near future.

 

[Spicermech]

I have a 2500 68RFE, I HAVE the dead pedal issue! It is when Im on the pedal, off and back on again. ( heavey traffic) it may not be 3-4-or 5 seconds. But it IS a safety issue if I can't get out of the way of on coming traffic.
I expect the truck to GO when I step on it! All other dodge diesel trucks did I not have this issue. ( I have had an 03, an 09 and now a 15).

 

[dfb]

Dead pedal happens on mine from a dead stop.. Almost caused an accident because another car was coming as I pulled out and wammo! No power when I pulled out.. I was thinking because of the torque, it was built in to protect the drive train..

 

[Deleted member 995608]

^^^Did make a claim with the dealer, or make a file online with safecar.gov ??

 

[Spicermech]

No claim filed. Yet. I did tell the service writer of the issues, he seamed to be aware of the issue.
I asked for them to check for and update all soft ware and they did but no improvement.

 

[MJWenrich]

I had another interesting experience with a new car. I have a rental while the truck is being repaired. It's a Jeep Cherokee with an anemic wheezer under the hood. Probably a four banger. It also has a delayed throttle response. Started to pass a vehicle going uphill and had to abort after flooring the go pedal due to an oncoming car. As I pulled back in line, the engine suddenly accelerated and I had to apply the brakes. Damn near rear ended the car in front of me. Did not expect the sudden surge after letting off the pedal. This torque management stuff is dangerous but that's our government for you. Probably has some lawyers laughing all the way to the bank. ARRRRGH.

Appreciate the feedback on the other rigs. I thought I recalled some comment on non Aison equipped trucks having the delay but maybe with those it's not the same cause. Who knows at this point.

Also, maybe to save some of you a little embarrassment, I stopped to fill the rental car tank and could not find the lever to open the fuel flap. Looked on the floor, dash, etc. Finally had to call the rental company. The car is a Limited edition and on the fancier models they put the button UNDER the arm rest. My vertically challenged wife found it right away since it is closer to her eye level. DUH!

 

[SnoKing]

I had another interesting experience with a new car. I have a rental while the truck is being repaired. It's a Jeep Cherokee with an anemic wheezer under the hood. Probably a four banger. It also has a delayed throttle response. Started to pass a vehicle going uphill and had to abort after flooring the go pedal due to an oncoming car. As I pulled back in line, the engine suddenly accelerated and I had to apply the brakes. Damn near rear ended the car in front of me. Did not expect the sudden surge after letting off the pedal. This torque management stuff is dangerous but that's our government for you. Probably has some lawyers laughing all the way to the bank. ARRRRGH.

Appreciate the feedback on the other rigs. I thought I recalled some comment on non Aison equipped trucks having the delay but maybe with those it's not the same cause. Who knows at this point.

Also, maybe to save some of you a little embarrassment, I stopped to fill the rental car tank and could not find the lever to open the fuel flap. Looked on the floor, dash, etc. Finally had to call the rental company. The car is a Limited edition and on the fancier models they put the button UNDER the arm rest. My vertically challenged wife found it right away since it is closer to her eye level. DUH!

You will have to explain what the government has to do with Torque Management. The manufacturer puts it in the ECM to protect the drive train. Snoking

 

[DonFitzwater]

Got rid of my 2500 with 68rfe and the dead pedal went with it. New Hemi has exactly the opposite of dead pedal! :-laf

 

[Deleted member 995608]

I had another interesting experience with a new car. I have a rental while the truck is being repaired. It's a Jeep Cherokee with an anemic wheezer under the hood. Probably a four banger. It also has a delayed throttle response. Started to pass a vehicle going uphill and had to abort after flooring the go pedal due to an oncoming car. As I pulled back in line, the engine suddenly accelerated and I had to apply the brakes. Damn near rear ended the car in front of me. Did not expect the sudden surge after letting off the pedal. This torque management stuff is dangerous but that's our government for you. Probably has some lawyers laughing all the way to the bank. ARRRRGH.

Appreciate the feedback on the other rigs. I thought I recalled some comment on non Aison equipped trucks having the delay but maybe with those it's not the same cause. Who knows at this point.

Also, maybe to save some of you a little embarrassment, I stopped to fill the rental car tank and could not find the lever to open the fuel flap. Looked on the floor, dash, etc. Finally had to call the rental company. The car is a Limited edition and on the fancier models they put the button UNDER the arm rest. My vertically challenged wife found it right away since it is closer to her eye level. DUH!

This is funnier than all get out! The one way rental I used to get my 2016 was a Jeep Cherokee. I couldn't find the damn button to open the gas door either. I was cussing the sun by the time I found it. But that's not the best part....oh no! Apparently, the STOP/START System was enabled, or I enabled it somehow. I'm in the drive through Starbucks, hit the brake to stop, and the damn engine turns off, then turns back on. WTF?? This kept happening over and over and I kept thinking wrong with this POS.

 

[Cummins12V98]

I have had only one time that I had anything close to "dead pedal". I took off from a stop sigh barely got rolling and let off then right back into it. It felt like the old QuadraJet 4 barrel carb with that split second hesitation. It sure was not any measurable amount of time. No biggie to me.

 

[TCollier]

I have had only one time that I had anything close to "dead pedal". I took off from a stop sigh barely got rolling and let off then right back into it. It felt like the old QuadraJet 4 barrel carb with that split second hesitation. It sure was not any measurable amount of time. No biggie to me.

Pretty much the exact experience for me with same pedal operation. The first thing I thought of was an older car when you would floor it, there would be a split second delay then power.
Never did this in my 06 but it's no big deal. It's certainly not the same effect the other guys are talking about. I hope it gets straitened out for them.

 

[MJWenrich]

Snoking....what was explained to me...if I got it right...is that the EPA/CARB requirements are more strict for the 385 HP unit and much more strict that the earlier Gen 4 trucks. That being said, I don't understand why some trucks have this problem and others do not. If all of them had the issue then we could chalk it up to some nefarious plot by the government. If the issue is merely programming thru the ECM, then one would be led to believe it would be a simple issue to either change that out or re-program it. I am probably missing the big picture somehow since I see things very black and white and have very little knowledge on how these trucks work. I can barely operate this computer I am on without calling my daughter. I would post a funny smiley here but I don't know how to do that either.

Simple man...simple life...just wanting things to work as advertised and get what I paid for.

 

[Ram4Sam]

One thing about this whole dead pedal deal is it is so subjective......Everyone has their own driving style and their own perceptions of what dead pedal is and feels like. If you had two or three guys drive the same truck and try to duplicate it, you would most likely get two (or three) different levels of concern with the problem. They could range from "oh schittzsz" to "meh, barely felt it".....Personally, I think it's more emissions related than torque management. Back in the old days, say, on a 24valve, you had great throttle response because when you tromped on the pedal, it fueled immediately, and off you went although it would smoke a bit because of little or no boost. These new trucks aren't allowed to smoke due to the tree huggers, so no fueling until it builds boost pressure.....hence the delay.......

Just a little rainy day rambling......

Sam

 

[jhenderson]

I agree with Sam. The only time I really notice any lag is when I pull out to pass on the interstate. Cruising at 55 and pull out to pass, apply 1/3 throttle and no change. Step down hard and a downshift later it accelerates. So far fo me it's just annoying. But it is noticeable under the right conditions.

 

[Newsa]

One thing about this whole dead pedal deal is it is so subjective......Everyone has their own driving style and their own perceptions of what dead pedal is and feels like. If you had two or three guys drive the same truck and try to duplicate it, you would most likely get two (or three) different levels of concern with the problem. They could range from "oh schittzsz" to "meh, barely felt it".....Personally, I think it's more emissions related than torque management. Back in the old days, say, on a 24valve, you had great throttle response because when you tromped on the pedal, it fueled immediately, and off you went although it would smoke a bit because of little or no boost. These new trucks aren't allowed to smoke due to the tree huggers, so no fueling until it builds boost pressure.....hence the delay.......

Just a little rainy day rambling......

Sam

This explanation makes alot of sense at first read. At first, I thought OK. ..... they don't want to send a bunch of particulates into the DPF.

But then i realized the Chassis Cab's have the same exhaust treatment system, but not as much if any dead pedal. So this might explain part of the story.
Are there significant differences between the commercial vs non commercial Rams? Other than the programming, frame, suspension, wheels & tires? (And a lower geared differential)

 

[MJWenrich]

Sam I believe you are correct re: the emissions related comment. But isn't that programming? The tech mentioned some trucks are really bad, indicating mine was on the lower end of the scale.

Pulling out to pass as above stated translates to a three to four second delay for me but worse for others. If it only happened on an interstate I could live with it although it can be a problem in L.A. Read...you pull out to pass/change lanes, with what be normally a safe distance from an approaching vehicle, and you have no power for a few seconds. Next thing you know someone is pointing an UZI at you as they go by. Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on how you read it, I can create the lag every time so the service department, the RAM field tech noted the excessive delay. It's never a "meh", moment. It's more like "Oh crap" I'm going to die. Of course, I am aware of the problem and try to drive around it. The after market booster helps me enter the 55 MPH roads from a stop and that has made a tremendous difference in my personal safety.

Just knowing that everyone with this problem is in good company with each other and that RAM has acknowledged there is a problem, has helped my mental handling of this annoyance. I don't know why exactly, but I feel better about it now. No fix but I now have hope. Maybe I should buy a lottery ticket????