Will not start: Shows codes 0480 and 0628... is this normal or to be expected?

[MillerR]

The draw straws are just a problem waiting to happen, you should have used a modified canister instead to alleviate the problem. Check and make sure you have pressurea t the CP-3 before tearing into too much.

Not sure what you mean by "modified canister"... Can you elaborate please? I'll check for flow at CP-3 as you suggested, but I'm thinking about putting in the sump kit to remove any doubt. Any thoughts on that application?

Also, just to clarify. My truck does not have the "in the tank" lift pump conversion. It had the original lift pump mounted just behind the fuel filter on the side of the motor. The FASS kit that I put on, just replaced the feed line at the connection on top of the tank. I didn't change anything inside the tank. So, without having looked into this yet... I'm not sure why it would be a draw-tube issue, as nothing there has been changed. Others have suggested turning off the Edge Juice. I think I will try that to eliminate any failures coming from that. I have been running with that set-up for just over 10 years now without any issues. I suppose there could be something coming from that (it does control the computer and things do break over time). However; if it was some erronious signal from the Edge module, wouldn't there be different codes being thrown? I'm still seeing the 0480 and 0628. -Trey

 

[cerberusiam]

Ahhh, thought maybe you had drilled the tank and put in a bulkhead fitting for the fuel suction. If you are using the stock canister and did not pull it you might want to do that and check it. Might have been the reason your other pump failed. ULSD is terrible for cooking asphaltenes out of the fuel and that shows up as black tar on the canister basket, it will almost complete plug a canister to where it won't draw enough fuel to provide the CP-3. The FASS and AD really need the larger lines than stock, 1/2 suction, that you get with a modified canister.

I don't like sumps, period. Nothing uses a sump for a reason, all the garbage and free water is right there on the bottom and will be the first thing sucked thru the filters. Unless you are triple filtering too much water will get thru and that is worse than anything on a CR fuel system.

 

[MillerR]

Ahhh, thought maybe you had drilled the tank and put in a bulkhead fitting for the fuel suction. If you are using the stock canister and did not pull it you might want to do that and check it. Might have been the reason your other pump failed. ULSD is terrible for cooking asphaltenes out of the fuel and that shows up as black tar on the canister basket, it will almost complete plug a canister to where it won't draw enough fuel to provide the CP-3. The FASS and AD really need the larger lines than stock, 1/2 suction, that you get with a modified canister.

I don't like sumps, period. Nothing uses a sump for a reason, all the garbage and free water is right there on the bottom and will be the first thing sucked thru the filters. Unless you are triple filtering too much water will get thru and that is worse than anything on a CR fuel system.

1. bigger lines: The FASS came with all new larger lines (except what is in the tank) which replaced the stock line at the fitting on top of the tank. Can the tube that is inside the tank get plugged? The new system ran for just over 100 miles. Wouldn't expect it to have plugged in that short of time, but???
2. a sump: Yes, I can see your point on this. Water and everything else that settles is right there...

 

[cerberusiam]

The draw tube is still the same small size, you did not change that with the larger lines externally. A new canister with larger lines is needed. Until you verify if you have pressure at the CP-3 all bets are off, you might have an issue with the FASS also. None of these pumps are immune to failure.

 

[MillerR]

The draw tube is still the same small size, you did not change that with the larger lines externally. A new canister with larger lines is needed. Until you verify if you have pressure at the CP-3 all bets are off, you might have an issue with the FASS also. None of these pumps are immune to failure.

Sorry, please bear with me... I think I'm understanding this a little more each reply. By "Canister", do you mean the whole fuel tank, or just the cylindrical thing that drops into the tank? Again, mine was the pre-modified system. My OEM lift pump was on my motor, behind the filter. I'm not sure I have a clear understanding of what is under that lid where my fuel line hooks into the tank. Is it simply a draw-tube that sticks down into the fuel, or is it a cylindrical insert which incorporates a draw-tube with some sort of screening, or something completely different??? I'm also talking with FASS to get some more information on other parts options. Thank you for your inputs... -Trey

 

[MillerR]

Sorry, please bear with me... I think I'm understanding this a little more each reply. By "Canister", do you mean the whole fuel tank, or just the cylindrical thing that drops into the tank? Again, mine was the pre-modified system. My OEM lift pump was on my motor, behind the filter. I'm not sure I have a clear understanding of what is under that lid where my fuel line hooks into the tank. Is it simply a draw-tube that sticks down into the fuel, or is it a cylindrical insert which incorporates a draw-tube with some sort of screening, or something completely different??? I'm also talking with FASS to get some more information on other parts options. Thank you for your inputs... -Trey

Sorry if this is a duplicate post...

 

[MillerR]

The draw tube is still the same small size, you did not change that with the larger lines externally. A new canister with larger lines is needed. Until you verify if you have pressure at the CP-3 all bets are off, you might have an issue with the FASS also. None of these pumps are immune to failure.

Just got off the phone with a tech at fassride. Things are a little more clear now... Today, I will be doing the "5-gallon bucket test", which will confirm if the FASS pump is working and possibly determine if it is a fuel restriction in the tank. I think I'm gonna' order their suction tube, which replaces the OEM with a larger rigid tube (recommended by tech at fassride). If the bucket test doesn't show anything wrong, I'll get a pressure gauge and check that next. Thank you again for your replies, it is helping. Trey

 

[cerberusiam]

I think I'm gonna' order their suction tube, which replaces the OEM with a larger rigid tube (recommended by tech at fassride).

If that is the draw straw that installs outside the canister, do not do it. Running a draw straw will just result in the 1/4 tank issues.

The canister is the fuel level rheostat, fuel pickup, fuel return, and basket in one piece. That big nut around the top of where the lines go in is the canister top. With a engine mounted LP there is likely a sock on the draw tube pickup that might be plugged with asphaltenes and crud sine it is that old. That, along with buildup on the basket will cause low fuel flow. This is why I suggested you just get a replacement canister with larger pickup lines and new pieces. It costs a bit more but the efficacy is light years better.

Glacier Diesel has a pre-made canister with al new parts and 1/2 " pickup lines which will make the FASS work easier and quieter. Highly recommend that if there is any question on suction from the tank, and for general maintenance. I have the factory straws break and fall off and several levels in the canister, get holes in them, etc, and you will have no fuel flow from the tank until it is all the way full then it quits as fuel level drops. The stuff is all plastic so age has an effect.

 

[MillerR]

If that is the draw straw that installs outside the canister, do not do it. Running a draw straw will just result in the 1/4 tank issues.

The canister is the fuel level rheostat, fuel pickup, fuel return, and basket in one piece. That big nut around the top of where the lines go in is the canister top. With a engine mounted LP there is likely a sock on the draw tube pickup that might be plugged with asphaltenes and crud sine it is that old. That, along with buildup on the basket will cause low fuel flow. This is why I suggested you just get a replacement canister with larger pickup lines and new pieces. It costs a bit more but the efficacy is light years better.

Glacier Diesel has a pre-made canister with al new parts and 1/2 " pickup lines which will make the FASS work easier and quieter. Highly recommend that if there is any question on suction from the tank, and for general maintenance. I have the factory straws break and fall off and several levels in the canister, get holes in them, etc, and you will have no fuel flow from the tank until it is all the way full then it quits as fuel level drops. The stuff is all plastic so age has an effect.

Great, that is one thing I was wondering about. I thought I had read somewhere about an issue with running out of fuel at the 1/4 tank level. Why does the 1/4 tank issue affect a draw-tube and not the canister? I'll look into this GD replacement. Is Glacier Diesel the only source that you know of? I guess I see dropping the tank in my near future. What are your thoughts about using a hole saw and cutting an access hole in the bed and making a removable cover for future maintenance? I'm not sure how involved dropping the tank is...

I just looked up that part at Glacier Diesel and have a question about it. It states it is for the "In-tank pump". Is there a different part for trucks without the in-tank pump? The image shows the return line for Air Dog pumps, so this is a little confusing.

Thanks again...

 

[cerberusiam]

The canister holds the return fuel from the injectors and CP-3 plus fill from the tank so it never uncovers the pickup until is flat out of fuel in the tank, about 2" on the bottom of the tank. The draw straw sits outside of the canister where sloshing, cavitation, and lack of return fuel cause problems. Under normal driving about 70% of the fuel supplied is retuned to the tank, lot of fuel coming back so it keeps the canister full even with low fuel.

I would route the normal fuel return back to the tank and then take the FASS return and dump it with a bulkhead fitting to the tank just to keep the air out of the pickup area.

Even though it says 05-12 pretty sure this is the one you want for the new parts and 1/2 suction line. You can check with them but pretty sure it fits 03-04 also.

http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=0511-FTSM

 

[MillerR]

The canister holds the return fuel from the injectors and CP-3 plus fill from the tank so it never uncovers the pickup until is flat out of fuel in the tank, about 2" on the bottom of the tank. The draw straw sits outside of the canister where sloshing, cavitation, and lack of return fuel cause problems. Under normal driving about 70% of the fuel supplied is retuned to the tank, lot of fuel coming back so it keeps the canister full even with low fuel.

I would route the normal fuel return back to the tank and then take the FASS return and dump it with a bulkhead fitting to the tank just to keep the air out of the pickup area.

Even though it says 05-12 pretty sure this is the one you want for the new parts and 1/2 suction line. You can check with them but pretty sure it fits 03-04 also.

http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/product.aspx?pf_id=0511-FTSM

Ahhh, that makes total sense re: 1/4 tank issue. Right now, my stock return line is intact. I assume that would stay the same with the new canister. My FASS return ties into the filler neck. Are you saying you would change that?

***update*** Before leaving to get some fuel to do the bucket test, I decided to check something. I bumped the starter to get the pump to run. I cracked open the fuel filter and heard a little bit of sounded like air escaping. Then I heard the pump motor sound change and tightened the filter back up. My truck then started, but only ran for about 15-20 seconds. This makes me feel much better (seems like a definite fuel issue and not computer related). The bucket test is for pressure issues and or keeping prime issues, which I now believe I have. Going to get a pressure gauge and some fuel to test things out...

 

[cerberusiam]

FASS return to the filler neck is fine if that is already in place.

Sounds like you have an issue on the suction side. 6 bolts, a couple wiring connections, a couple friends and a 6 pack and the box will be off and you can work on things.

 

[MillerR]

FASS return to the filler neck is fine if that is already in place.

Sounds like you have an issue on the suction side. 6 bolts, a couple wiring connections, a couple friends and a 6 pack and the box will be off and you can work on things.

1. You don't know my friends... "a 6 pack" might get them into the driveway, but it would take at least a case to get any work out of them...
2. I'm a little embarassed to admit this, but I'm pretty sure this incident is going into the memory bank under "Installer Error". I was checking the prime on the pump again by releasing the fuel pump until the pump changed pitch. Heard the sound change and tightened up the filter, but noticed some fuel dripping down off the water separator. Investigating the source of this leak, I noticed it was coming from the fitting that connects the fuel line from the tank, to the pump inlet fitting. I thought... "Huh, maybe it's a little loose". Well, actually, it was a lot loose. Maybe it vibrated loose? or maybe I just didn't tighten it enough when I put the system in. Tightened it up and primed the pump again and Waalaa, truck starts and runs. I'll be taking some shot trips around town before I venture too far from home, just to be on the safe side, but I think I have it solved.
3. I'm still looking into upgrading the suction tube. The part you suggested from Glacier is for the '05 and newer. I called them to check. The fitting on the tank is different than the one on my '03. He also said the tube on their part is only 3/8", like stock. He said he thought Vulcan offers a modified replacement with a 1/2" tube. I'll look into that option.

Thank you again for all your help. Even if it didn't fix this issue, it's still good knowledge to have.

Trey

 

[cerberusiam]

Look at the drop down selection for the fittings, you can get 1/2" or 3/8" with doorman fitting or leave it stock. With a FASS it will work fine, just plumb the FASS suction side with 1/2 line and a Doorman fitting, you want to loose the factory fitting anyway as it is restrictive on suction. I swear the help doesn't even look at their own products. The fitting is the least of the worries, bad as FASS when it comes to understanding options. As long as the canister fits the tank you are good to go.

The Vulcan straw that goes into the canister is also an option, just make sure it is 1/2 " and a good fitting. You an build your own with a dremel and a bulkhead fitting also.

 

[MillerR]

Look at the drop down selection for the fittings, you can get 1/2" or 3/8" with doorman fitting or leave it stock. With a FASS it will work fine, just plumb the FASS suction side with 1/2 line and a Doorman fitting, you want to loose the factory fitting anyway as it is restrictive on suction. I swear the help doesn't even look at their own products. The fitting is the least of the worries, bad as FASS when it comes to understanding options. As long as the canister fits the tank you are good to go.

The Vulcan straw that goes into the canister is also an option, just make sure it is 1/2 " and a good fitting. You an build your own with a dremel and a bulkhead fitting also.

I don't see the drop-down option for this part on their website. I will call them again, because he also said the tube was only 3/8". It clearly states on the picture that it is 1/2" tubing. Sounds like the right part, I just wanted to clarify the call-out for "In-tank pump", which is NOT what I have.

If it doesn't match, I may just build my own. On that, the "bulkhead" fitting would be for what - replacing the fitting at the top of the cannister, where the inner suction tube connects to the outside fuel line that feeds the lift pump, correct?

Did you have a thought about the access hole I mentioned above - In the bed of the truck directly above the canister...?

-Trey

 

[cerberusiam]

Right in the middle of the page I linked you is a drop down that says "Please Select Fitting Option", that will give you the options. The in-tank pump blurb is to indicate it replaces the OE module that has the in-tank pump so you can use and external pump. The 03-04's had an external pump so technically you did have to replace the canister to add an external pump, but, if you want a larger pickup line you need to replace or modify the canister. The question would be how bad is the original canister with build up or rust on stuff.

Yes, the Vulcan straw is meant to allow addition of larger suction tube and foot. You can actually repurpose the OE pickup for a return and add a larger pickup for better suction.

The occurrence of having to get to things is so low I would just remove the bed, or, drop the tank. Not worth cutting holes in things.