Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) GSK problems

[ArtVandalay]

So the guy that I have work on my truck just got done taking 4 hours to install the PacBrake 4k GSK on my truck. The truck revs extremely fast now and there is little to no smoke present while giving it some throttle. It is pretty amazing how quickly the old 12v revs now...however there is a problem. The truck is extremely difficult to drive as the revs , while very fast to build, have a 1-2 second delay in falling back down. This presents a real problem while shifting gears as I catch the revs in a higher than normal spot then the truck surges.

He told me that it took so long because he initially didn't get the second piece of the two piece stock spring cups out the first time he did it...then he spent a while making adjustments to the spring tension....he also told me that he gave the starwheel 35 clicks towards the valve cover.

I looked at the EGT while driving with some spirit and they never got above 800.

Does something sound off? I REALLY don't like how the truck drives now and unless he did something wrong I might have the GSK taken out.

He seems to think things will get better once my #11 fuel plate is installed....it was his suggestion to install the GSK before the plate.

For the first time since I've owned it I don't want to drive the truck as the slow rev fall makes it extremely rough.

 

[Bob4x4]

The springs are not installed correctly and or they are adjusted too tight.The 4k's should not be installed without installing new hd valve springs.I also would not use an 11 plate with a gsk.

 

[ArtVandalay]

The springs are not installed correctly and or they are adjusted too tight.The 4k's should not be installed without installing new hd valve springs.I also would not use an 11 plate with a gsk.

Well I don't rev past 3k....I know a lot of people say that but I really don't.

Why is an 11 plate a bad idea with the gsk?

I'm beginning to think they are set too tight. I have no idea how to adjust them and I really don't want to have to pay him to do it...I can't seem to find any good visual instructions.

 

[BigPapa]

What Bob said, parts have been left that should have been removed or they're not adjusted properly.

No offense meant to you or your mechanic, but 4 hours for a GSK install is crazy. I just helped a friend install a GSK, DV's, and injectors on his truck and it took 3 hours. Now, granted, he did the injectors while I did the DV's and then he did all the pump work with the GSK, basically all I did was coach and rotate the engine. It was also his first GSK install, though. My experience with the GSK helped us to get them adjusted properly the first time, thank goodness.

I would suggest either do this yourself, or take it back to him, and pull EVERYTHING out of the cup. Make sure you get all the thin shims out. Make sure you have the one-piece base in first, then the big spring, the next spring, and then one more spring. Leave the little spring out. It is the only difference between a 3K and a 4K kit. Then put the top retainer in and screw the retainer nut in until you feel the first, weak click. Turn it in 3 more clicks and try it.

You may have to adjust the idle a bit but if the idle is TOO low, you may have to go back in and back them off one click and try again.

 

[BigPapa]

Sorry, I was typing that while you made your last post.

It's not that difficult, you can do it. You will need a spotter.

First, remove the shut-off solenoid from the bracket, leave the bracket in place so you don't have to deal with that bolt on the back of the pump, and then remove the shut-off lever itself. Be careful not to drop the VERY small woodruff key on the shut-down shaft when you pull the lever off. After removing the lever take a 7/8" socket and remove cap on the side of the pump.

I can't remember the socket size for the alternator nut, I'm trying to say it's 7/8" also, but put a socket on it and start turning the engine over until your spotter sees the governor spring cup FILL THE HOLE UP where you removed the cap. It moves fairly slowly turning the engine this way so don't worry about shooting past it, but stress to your spotter that it is important not to go past it because using the alternator to turn the engine will only let you turn it one way and if you go too far you'll have to go all the way around again.

I use a small pair of needle nose pliers to turn the retainer nut. Turn it counter clock wise until you can finish removing it by hand. Using a good magnet remove it and the retainer, all the springs, and the base. Use a good flashlight and an o-ring pick to make sure there are no washers or shims left in the cup. Follow the other directions from my previous post from here.

There are two cups in the pump. You will need to do one and then rotate the engine until you see the other and repeat the process on the second one. I also mark the first retainer when I'm done with it before moving on to the second one.

Two words of warning.

(1) Make sure the cup is centered in the hole. With it in this position the only thing small enough to fall into the pump are the very thin washers or shims if they have not already been removed. Just be very careful with them.

(2) You should have @ .030" - .040", a bit less than the thickness of a credit card, of the stud protruding from the retainer nut. Feel it with your finger tip and make sure both sides feel the same. The measurement is not critical. Your adjustment comes from counting the "clicks". Just make sure there is some stud protruding and that the nut is not flush with the stud or that the nut is higher than the end of the stud. I had a friend that kept backing his off until the retainer hit the pump housing and bent the stud.

 

[ArtVandalay]

What Bob said, parts have been left that should have been removed or they're not adjusted properly.

No offense meant to you or your mechanic, but 4 hours for a GSK install is crazy. I just helped a friend install a GSK, DV's, and injectors on his truck and it took 3 hours. Now, granted, he did the injectors while I did the DV's and then he did all the pump work with the GSK, basically all I did was coach and rotate the engine. It was also his first GSK install, though. My experience with the GSK helped us to get them adjusted properly the first time, thank goodness.

I would suggest either do this yourself, or take it back to him, and pull EVERYTHING out of the cup. Make sure you get all the thin shims out. Make sure you have the one-piece base in first, then the big spring, the next spring, and then one more spring. Leave the little spring out. It is the only difference between a 3K and a 4K kit. Then put the top retainer in and screw the retainer nut in until you feel the first, weak click. Turn it in 3 more clicks and try it.

You may have to adjust the idle a bit but if the idle is TOO low, you may have to go back in and back them off one click and try again.

No offense taken. He's a pretty good guy but I didn't learn until hour 3 he had never done this before. I didn't feel confident doing it myself to begin with which is why I wasted $200 on him. I fully regret ever ordering this spring kit as the truck is much worse than before.

I forgot to mention that while you free rev it at idor there's a puff of black smoke followed by thick white/grey smoke. It seems that maybe the starwheel is turned up too much.

I don't really know what to do...I have a 60 mile round trip commute and the truck is terrible to drive. I don't know if any diesel shops within 30 mins of me either to have someone else give it a look.

I might see if I can back the retaining but off and try and reset it tomorrow.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Sorry, I was typing that while you made your last post.

It's not that difficult, you can do it. You will need a spotter.

First, remove the shut-off solenoid from the bracket, leave the bracket in place so you don't have to deal with that bolt on the back of the pump, and then remove the shut-off lever itself. Be careful not to drop the VERY small woodruff key on the shut-down shaft when you pull the lever off. After removing the lever take a 7/8" socket and remove cap on the side of the pump.

I can't remember the socket size for the alternator nut, I'm trying to say it's 7/8" also, but put a socket on it and start turning the engine over until your spotter sees the governor spring cup FILL THE HOLE UP where you removed the cap. It moves fairly slowly turning the engine this way so don't worry about shooting past it, but stress to your spotter that it is important not to go past it because using the alternator to turn the engine will only let you turn it one way and if you go too far you'll have to go all the way around again.

I use a small pair of needle nose pliers to turn the retainer nut. Turn it counter clock wise until you can finish removing it by hand. Using a good magnet remove it and the retainer, all the springs, and the base. Use a good flashlight and an o-ring pick to make sure there are no washers or shims left in the cup. Follow the other directions from my previous post from here.

There are two cups in the pump. You will need to do one and then rotate the engine until you see the other and repeat the process on the second one.

Two words of warning.

(1) Make sure the cup is centered in the hole. With it in this position the only thing small enough to fall into the pump are the very thin washers or shims if they have not already been removed. Just be very careful with them.

(2) You should have @ .030" - .040", a bit less than the thickness of a credit card, of the stud protruding from the retainer nut. Feel it with your finger tip and make sure both sides feel the same. The measurement is not critical. Just make sure there is some stud protruding and that the nut is not flush with the stud or that the nut is higher than the end of the stud. I had a friend that kept backing his off until the retainer hit the pump housing and bent the stud.

Ha apparently we were typing at the same time. I might try and leave work early tomorrow and attempt this. Oddly enough the thing I most worried about is removing the shut off solenoid.

 

[BigPapa]

The solenoid is simple. Two bolts from the top and a hair pin where it connects to the lever arm and it's off. No adjustments or anything else.

Once you get it right, the only difference you'll notice from before the GSK is that it will rev higher when you want it to. The throttle may, and I stress MAY, seem a bit "touchy" until you get used to it. If this is the case, you can add an extra return spring to the throttle linkage and see if that makes it feel better.

Also remember, you've not done anything you can't undo if you don't like it. As long as you kept the old springs and parts.

Going to bed now! Good night.

 

[ArtVandalay]

The solenoid is simple. Two bolts from the top and a hair pin where it connects to the lever arm and it's off. No adjustments or anything else.

Once you get it right, the only difference you'll notice from before the GSK is that it will rev higher when you want it to. The throttle may, and I stress MAY, seem a bit "touchy" until you get used to it. If this is the case, you can add an extra return spring to the throttle linkage and see if that makes it feel better.

Also remember, you've not done anything you can't undo if you don't like it. As long as you kept the old springs and parts.

Going to bed now! Good night.

Thanks VERY much for all the help! I plan on giving it a go this afternoon. The 27 mile drive to work was hell this morning with the revs hanging like that. I don't know that I like how quickly the revs come now either. I kind of like the idea of the slow revving but hugely powerful diesel engine.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Well I took it apart today. Other than the frustration at finding my tools in utter disarray the job of getting,to the springs wasn't bad. Weather was on its way in so I was limited to adjusting the retaining nut. I backed it off 3 clicks. After putting it back together I started it up and the idle was still sitting at 950. I free revved it a little bit at it seemed not to hang up as badly as it revved down.

Hopefully the weather will be better tomorrow and I can take more time and pay better attention to it. Its a start I suppose.

 

[BigPapa]

I backed it off 3 clicks.

Did you still have some stud protruding from the nut? The 3 clicks I spoke of were 3 clicks IN after assembly. Remember my second warning that you must have some stud protruding from the nut or the retainer could contact the housing.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Did you still have some stud protruding from the nut? The 3 clicks I spoke of were 3 clicks IN after assembly. Remember my second warning that you must have some stud protruding from the nut or the retainer could contact the housing.

Yes sir...the guy who installed it tightened it far too much to begin with. I revved it a bit afterwards and everything sounded Ok...aside from the high idle.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Well I took another stab at it. I backed out both retaining nuts until they were finger right then did the standard 3 clicks after the initial click. Yesterday I didn't realize there are two spring cups to be adjusted and only did one. Today I got to the other one and it took 6 clicks to back it off to finger loose.Fired right up and idles at around 825 or so. It doesn't seem to rev as fast as before but the revs no longer hang at all. I don't know if it's normal but the truck is marginally better than stock. From all the other posts about people I,stalling these things your think there would be a drastic improvement . there is an improvement but it certainly isn't night and day. I'm hAppy though that it is back to normal.

I tried to I,stall my fuel plate while I had the manifold off but I couldn't get that dang tamper screw off.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Well I took another stab at it. I backed out both retaining nuts until they were finger right then did the standard 3 clicks after the initial click. Yesterday I didn't realize there are two spring cups to be adjusted and only did one. Today I got to the other one and it took 6 clicks to back it off to finger loose.Fired right up and idles at around 825 or so. It doesn't seem to rev as fast as before but the revs no longer hang at all. I don't know if it's normal but the truck is marginally better than stock. From all the other posts about people I,stalling these things your think there would be a drastic improvement . there is an improvement but it certainly isn't night and day. I'm hAppy though that it is back to normal.

I tried to I,stall my fuel plate while I had the manifold off but I couldn't get that dang tamper screw off.

 

[Bob4x4]

I have some special tools for removing the tamper proof screws without removing anything. I used to install plates at all the diesel events in the parking lot. The good old days when the 12 valves were thick

 

[BigPapa]

There are two cups in the pump. You will need to do one and then rotate the engine until you see the other and repeat the process on the second one. I also mark the first retainer when I'm done with it before moving on to the second one.

I told you........

I don't know if it's normal but the truck is marginally better than stock. From all the other posts about people I,stalling these things your think there would be a drastic improvement . there is an improvement but it certainly isn't night and day.

The purpose of the GSK is to allow your pump to fully fuel past the factory set 2500rpm's. That's it. Should be pretty noticeable with the 5-speed. I know when I did mine it made a big difference feeling it pull all the way to 3K.

I tried to I,stall my fuel plate while I had the manifold off but I couldn't get that dang tamper screw off.

If memory serves, isn't there a hole in the center of the head? Seems like I took a torx bit that was just a bit too big to go in the hole and drove it into the hole with a hammer and it turned right out.

 

[Bob4x4]

I told you........





The purpose of the GSK is to allow your pump to fully fuel past the factory set 2500rpm's. That's it. Should be pretty noticeable with the 5-speed. I know when I did mine it made a big difference feeling it pull all the way to 3K.





If memory serves, isn't there a hole in the center of the head? Seems like I took a torx bit that was just a bit too big to go in the hole and drove it into the hole with a hammer and it turned right out.

What works the most reliably is to drill a pilot hole than force that torx bit in deep enough to get a good bite,the trick is in finding the correct length bits

 

[Bob4x4]

You need to have the correct plate profile to take full advantage-the 11 is not designed for gsk use

 

[ArtVandalay]

You need to have the correct plate profile to take full advantage-the 11 is not designed for gsk use

I was told that anything more than an 11 would cause my clutch to slip...I just don't have the $1k sitting around for a clutch right now...

Do you have to remove the fuel lines to get to the tamper screw? I don't see how you can get anything on it straight without doing so...

 

[ArtVandalay]

I told you........





The purpose of the GSK is to allow your pump to fully fuel past the factory set 2500rpm's. That's it. Should be pretty noticeable with the 5-speed. I know when I did mine it made a big difference feeling it pull all the way to 3K.





If memory serves, isn't there a hole in the center of the head? Seems like I took a torx bit that was just a bit too big to go in the hole and drove it into the hole with a hammer and it turned right out.

Yes you did tell me...and I remembered just as I was putting my tools away. Unfortunately a thunderstorm was imminent so I couldn't fix it then. I do very much appreciate the guidance though, it did take much of the confusion out of the process for me.