Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Fuel additives

[SAndreasen]

When did the tdr go to the theory that fuel additives are snake oil? I thought a good additive was recommended ?

 

[SnoKing]

When did the tdr go to the theory that fuel additives are snake oil? I thought a good additive was recommended ?

I would not put anything in my 2015 unless a dealer put it in writing that I had to! Ran a quart of WM 2cycle oil in each tank of my 2001.5 and it ran quieter.

SNOKING

 

[Flash1034]

I used to run Stanadyne in mine....doesn't look like most guys are using additives now....

flash

 

[JR]

Lots of opinions but the facts are this. ASTM requires HFFR of 520um max but fuel regulations are so lax random tests pulled have shown fuel quality all over the map. Bosch recommends a 460um MAX for rotory pumps and common rail so even if fuel meets the ASTM requirement of 520um your still causing premature wear to your pump according to Bosch.

The study in the link below is several years old but the results are still relevant as ASTM has not changed their recommendations.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...yWoHk7ZXLhIIHglLg&sig2=UhRAVDH_01kTvK9crrZSDQ

 

[SAndreasen]

Lots of opinions but the facts are this. ASTM requires HFFR of 520um max but fuel regulations are so lax random tests pulled have shown fuel quality all over the map. Bosch recommends a 460um MAX for rotory pumps and common rail so even if fuel meets the ASTM requirement of 520um your still causing premature wear to your pump according to Bosch.

The study in the link below is several years old but the results are still relevant as ASTM has not changed their recommendations.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...yWoHk7ZXLhIIHglLg&sig2=UhRAVDH_01kTvK9crrZSDQ

I always get mad when I hear the snake oil additive debate ! Fuel has specs just like anything else and if anybody would ever open the operator manual Cummins has a spec the fuel should meet that's why I can't believe tdr has gone to the snake oil position

 

[SAndreasen]

I would not put anything in my 2015 unless a dealer put it in writing that I had to! Ran a quart of WM 2cycle oil in each tank of my 2001.5 and it ran quieter.

SNOKING

If I had to buy def I think I might balk more at a buying something else to burn but with the cost of parts I still can't think it's a bad idea

 

[JR]

I always get mad when I hear the snake oil additive debate ! Fuel has specs just like anything else and if anybody would ever open the operator manual Cummins has a spec the fuel should meet that's why I can't believe tdr has gone to the snake oil position

the info I posted is directly from Bosch and is what they have determined is needed to ensure long pump life. They know better than anyone as it is their equipment. FWIW, they do not make any "snake oils" so they have no skin in the game in that aspect. They manufacture equipment to a certain standard and like any component that has cooling and lube requirements a minimum fuel quality is required. Bosch has published those requirements, whether you choose to ignore it or not is for you to decide.

 

[jeepit]

I have been adding Walmart 2cycle oil for years now.

 

[SnoKing]

Here is what the RAM Owners Diesel Supplement says for 2500/3500/4500/5500:

FUEL REQUIREMENTS

Use good quality diesel fuel from a reputable supplier in
your vehicle. Federal law requires that you must fuel this
vehicle with Ultra Low Sulfur Highway Diesel fuel (15
ppm Sulfur maximum) and prohibits the use of Low
Sulfur Highway Diesel fuel (500 ppm Sulfur maximum)
to avoid damage to the emissions control system. For
most year-round service, No. 2 diesel fuel meeting ASTM
(formerly known as the American Society for Testing and
Materials) specification D-975 Grade S15 will provide
good performance. If the vehicle is exposed to extreme
cold (below 20°F or -7°C), or is required to operate at
colder-than-normal conditions for prolonged periods,
use climatized No. 2 diesel fuel or dilute the No. 2 diesel
fuel with 50% No. 1 diesel fuel. This will provide better
protection from fuel gelling or wax-plugging of the fuel
filters.

 

[Killgore]

I use Amalgamated, alternating back and forth with 2-cycle at about 1:400. I've maintained that additives are about like bourbon; the older your equipment, the more it needs a good cleaning and
additional lubrication.

- Ed

 

[JR]

Yep, looking at ASTM specs you are running on the ragged edge if you run a rotory pump. Bosch includes CR pumps as well but the article is dated and I would imagine they are building the pumps different to handle the poor fuel characteristics that make up ULSD. The same can't be said for the VP which was engineered and manufactured before ULSD came into existence. I revert back to my original statement in that Bosch knows their equipment better than anybody else.

 

[gtwitch]

Cold weather is a different story? YES I ran into a sticker at the EXON station that I frequent yesterday that said that their fuel was only good as a winter blend down to +10*F and the cetane rating of their winter blend was down and recommended that users add Power Service or one other brand additive for operations below this temperture! Of course they sell both additives inside!! After the fact, I did have a gell up problem this past winter and had to change out the filter(s) and get the truck into a warm area to get it thawed out. (temp was -38*f however) so i switched dealers for winter fuel, as the second dealer had blended #1/#2 and the sticker that just appeared at first dealer (summer now) tells the story! In the summer I use Power Service at about 1/2 the amount recommemded for Lubricity issues, I suppose that 2- cycle oil would do the same..

 

[JR]

Is that Lockhart's on 3rd Street? I'll have to tell my brother in law about that next time I talk to him.

It blows me away that a fuel station I Wyoming can get away with selling fuel that is only winterized down to 10*F. Seems like there would be ALOT of stranded people in Laramie!

 

[gtwitch]

JR, No not Lockhart's It is in west Laramie After I switched to the blended fuel, we had some more cold weather (-30*) and no more gelling and when I gelled before I had what I thought was enough Power Service additive but not the case so I asked a lot of questions and the common answer was that most of the station owners were not in control of what fuels was dumped in their tanks and were at the mercy of the distributor and they just got what was delivered. I found one of the distributors that furnishes fuel to some of the stations and then went to one of those stations, a little higher price but the lost day and changing $60 worth of filters made no difference for the rest of the winter. Who is your borhter in law?? been here in Laramie for over 50 years and probably know him..We also have issues with getting non-ethanol 91 0ctane fuel here for our outdoor toys Snow machines do not do well on ethanol fuels (even 10%) There are 3 stations here that handle that and in talking with them, their sales of that furl has not really gone down because the boaters/fisherman are buying it in the summer. Ethanol Fuels----- Whole other story!!!

gtwitch in wyoming

 

[JR]

Unfortunately there are only recommendations as to the degree of fuel blend. ASTMD975 says fuel SHOULD be climatized to at least 6*C below the the average low temps of the region it is delivered to. It looks at minimum temperature that would be reached 3 days out of 30 for the month, and that is basically it. Covers the averages but when unseasonably low temps hit you have the greatest chance of gelling up.

gtwitch, I sent you a P.M.

 

[JKosten]

I used to run Stanadyne in mine....doesn't look like most guys are using additives now....

flash

I run it with every fuel up. http://stanadyneadditives.com/lubricity-formula/

On the Ag side we have seen a lot to fuel related issues especial in CA with ULSD. It is a very dry fuel, that does not lubricate the parts well.

 

[KATOOM]

I would run a lubricity additive in any diesel built prior to 2007 when ULSD was introduced. I've been using Walmart 2-stroke oil in my fuel for years as well.

 

[SnoKing]

I thought all CA diesel was part bio-diesel? 5 or 10%. Snoking

 

[Tractorat]

It at least used to be in washington. Dont know it if is anymore, but the guys at Plateau Diesel (used to be the guys from the power shop) will tell you to use stanadyne. So I do.

 

[KATOOM]

I understand that the most common in CA is B5. Someone also told me that B20 can contain "up to" 20% and not always that amount. Not sure..... But for what I've seen in California I generally only ever see B5 or nothing.