Time to change oil. What's the deal on CK-4 oil?

[Killgore]

Sorry, Dave. Check out TDR Issue 93, pp. 32-33. Contained therein is part of Delorenzo's rant concerning Marchionne and Elkann. "And an entire industry will be licking its' chops, looking forward to the day when the Unctuous Prick and his minions are forced to leave the stage, for good". Ouch!.....and, so forth. Well, it is not unforeseen if you think back to the acquisition and formation of FCA. Most of us have always considered a Fiat just a re-labeled Yugo. And, Jeep and Ram are the most successful of FCA and consequently at risk when Marchionne becomes desperate for cash. And yes, there is another side to the argument on p. 35. I see an image of George W. Bush saying, "Miss me now?"

 

[amsoilman]

Here is some interesting information from AMSOIL Inc.

Ford Motor Company recently released its position on the upcoming new API CK-4 and FA-4 diesel oil specifications, claiming it will only recommend diesel oils that meet the Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 specification or oils formulated specifically for the previous API CJ-4 specification.


Questions have arisen regarding why Ford would condemn use of CK-4 and FA-4 products in its Powerstroke engines. According to Ford Service Lubricant Technical Expert Ron Romano, “6.7L engines tested on CK-4 and FA-4 formulations had experienced valve train wear not encountered with CJ-4 formulations. The CJ-4 formulations in question contained more than 1,000 parts per million phosphorus, an effective antiwear ingredient, while the CK-4 and FA-4 formulations were below that threshold. As a result, Ford declared that it has wear concerns about the use of CK-4 and FA-4 formulations with less than 1,000 ppm phosphorus in new and older Ford engines.”


All current AMSOIL synthetic diesel oils contain a boosted level of wear protection above the requirements set by the Ford specification. The new AMSOIL Signature Series Max-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil and Heavy-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil formulations launched in February of this year, contain boosted levels of wear protection, and they carry the Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 specification. AMSOIL Dealers and customers can be well-assured that all Ford Powerstroke engines, no matter the model year, are well-protected when using AMSOIL synthetic diesel

 

[JR]

The new AMSOIL Signature Series Max-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil and Heavy-Duty Synthetic Diesel Oil formulations launched in February of this year, contain boosted levels of wear protection, and they carry the Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 specification.

You and about 75 other brands of oil meet Fords suspect oil spec, many of which cost about 1/3 less.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

Cummins has accumulated extensive testing prior to the release of CK4. Any CK4 that lists their CES 20086 spec is approved.

 

[mwilson]

You and about 75 other brands of oil meet Fords suspect oil spec, many of which cost about 1/3 less.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

Cummins has accumulated extensive testing prior to the release of CK4. Any CK4 that lists their CES 20086 spec is approved.

A fairly good explanation of CK-4 and FA-4 here ....http://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/demistifying-new-engine-oil-categories-compatibility-ck4-fa4/2/

I have to add the FA-4 in bulk at my three service locations in addition to the bulk CK-4 I currently carry. Forced me to eliminate my bulk Rotella so I don't to buy more pumps, tanks, meters, etc...

The FA-4 will NOT be backwards compatible for the most part. As you can see in the article the engine manufacturers will make the final call. Detroit Diesel from what I understand states that the FA-4 will not be backwards compatible in their previous engine offerings.

I am not looking forward to trying to get that beat through everyone's noggin here....

 

[DaveHess]

Yes, I remember reading that....

My daily driver is an Optima which for me, has been a very nice car. Just not sure I want to see my beloved Ram with a KIA emblem in place of the Ram head.....

Sorry, Dave. Check out TDR Issue 93, pp. 32-33. Contained therein is part of Delorenzo's rant concerning Marchionne and Elkann. "And an entire industry will be licking its' chops, looking forward to the day when the Unctuous Prick and his minions are forced to leave the stage, for good". Ouch!.....and, so forth. Well, it is not unforeseen if you think back to the acquisition and formation of FCA. Most of us have always considered a Fiat just a re-labeled Yugo. And, Jeep and Ram are the most successful of FCA and consequently at risk when Marchionne becomes desperate for cash. And yes, there is another side to the argument on p. 35. I see an image of George W. Bush saying, "Miss me now?"

 

[Jim W]

You and about 75 other brands of oil meet Fords suspect oil spec, many of which cost about 1/3 less.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/additionalinfo/dieseloilsWSSM2C171F1.pdf

Cummins has accumulated extensive testing prior to the release of CK4. Any CK4 that lists their CES 20086 spec is approved.

Here is the letter from Ford about the use of CK-4 and FA-4 diesel engine oil!

Ford Motor Company CK-4/FA-4 Ford Position Statement
Starting on December 1, 2016 the American Petroleum Institute (API) will begin licensing two new diesel motor categories CK-4 and FA-4. API CK-4 is being released to replace CJ-4. FA-4 is a low viscosity diesel oil released for diesel engines designed for a lower viscosity oil.
API FA-4
Due to its low viscosity FA-4 should not be used in any Ford diesel vehicles at this time.
API CK-4
Ford will not be recommending the use of CK-4 motor oils in any Ford diesel engines, new or old. Testing Ford has done on some CK-4 formulations have shown inadequate wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed before 2016.
Like many other diesel engine manufacturers, with their own internal OEM specification, Ford will now be recommending oils that meet an OEM specification, Ford Material Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1. The customer should use an oil showing that it meets this specification.
An oil showing CJ-4 in the API donut without showing CK-4 would be acceptable for service even if not showing WSS-M2C171-F1. This oil would most likely be an older CJ4 formulation, developed and licensed prior to 2016. These oils could be around for about a year after CK-4 licensing begins, December 1, 2016. Field experience and Ford testing has shown that these older CJ-4 formulations provide acceptable 6.7L engine protection.
To insure you protect your Ford diesel engine use an oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C171-F1 like Motorcraft Super Duty Motor oil.

If the oil does not have Ford spec on the bottle CK-4 oil can't be used.

I have attached the PDF also.
https://jobbersworldblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ford-motor-company-ck-4-position-statement.pdf

 

[JR]

A fairly good explanation of CK-4 and FA-4 here ....http://www.fleetequipmentmag.com/demistifying-new-engine-oil-categories-compatibility-ck4-fa4/2/

I have to add the FA-4 in bulk at my three service locations in addition to the bulk CK-4 I currently carry. Forced me to eliminate my bulk Rotella so I don't to buy more pumps, tanks, meters, etc...

The FA-4 will NOT be backwards compatible for the most part. As you can see in the article the engine manufacturers will make the final call. Detroit Diesel from what I understand states that the FA-4 will not be backwards compatible in their previous engine offerings.

I am not looking forward to trying to get that beat through everyone's noggin here....

Yep, thin isn't always in :-laf

It's pretty simple really. If your truck specs 15w40 then the CK4 is the only spec you need to be concerned with. It's a handful of the new Cummins and DD (and the Power stroke) that have been using 10w30 for a few years that have to really watch what they're using.

 

[JR]

Here is the letter from Ford about the use of CK-4 and FA-4 diesel engine oil!

Ford Motor Company CK-4/FA-4 Ford Position Statement
Starting on December 1, 2016 the American Petroleum Institute (API) will begin licensing two new diesel motor categories CK-4 and FA-4. API CK-4 is being released to replace CJ-4. FA-4 is a low viscosity diesel oil released for diesel engines designed for a lower viscosity oil.
API FA-4
Due to its low viscosity FA-4 should not be used in any Ford diesel vehicles at this time.
API CK-4
Ford will not be recommending the use of CK-4 motor oils in any Ford diesel engines, new or old. Testing Ford has done on some CK-4 formulations have shown inadequate wear protection compared to CJ-4 formulations developed and licensed before 2016.
Like many other diesel engine manufacturers, with their own internal OEM specification, Ford will now be recommending oils that meet an OEM specification, Ford Material Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1. The customer should use an oil showing that it meets this specification.
An oil showing CJ-4 in the API donut without showing CK-4 would be acceptable for service even if not showing WSS-M2C171-F1. This oil would most likely be an older CJ4 formulation, developed and licensed prior to 2016. These oils could be around for about a year after CK-4 licensing begins, December 1, 2016. Field experience and Ford testing has shown that these older CJ-4 formulations provide acceptable 6.7L engine protection.
To insure you protect your Ford diesel engine use an oil meeting Ford specification WSS-M2C171-F1 like Motorcraft Super Duty Motor oil.

If the oil does not have Ford spec on the bottle CK-4 oil can't be used.

I have attached the PDF also.
https://jobbersworldblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/ford-motor-company-ck-4-position-statement.pdf

That's not true anymore. The approved oil list I posted above is straight from Fords website and supercedes the quote you posted.
None of it concerns us as Ram/Cummins owners anyhow. I'm fairly convinced this is simply an engineering problem on Fords end. Cummins, Cat, DD, Volvo, etc. Have all extensively tested the CK4 oil and have no issues as long as it meets CES 20086