2008 Jeep Patriot

[RUSSELL5000]

My 2008 Jeep Patriot, 2.4L 4 cyl gas engine, 5spd manual, 4WD, has 70K miles. This vehicle is base (even has manual crank windows and door locks) but works fine for hauling me back and forth to work. The 4WD is handy for the numerous icy-road days each winter. This vehicle has been long been paid for and while now nine years old, my thinking is to spend some money ($2,000 to $3,000) on the wear items and drive it until I retire (five to seven years). This way I can save some dollars for a new truck. I should add that I like to drive the homely little thing back and forth to work.

The use of salt around here in the winter is, IMHO, ridiculous. Rust is the enemy. I crawled all around and looked at the body and apart from two spots on the rear wheel wells on sheet metal is not bad. I plan to spend some time with a wire brush, rust remover, and rustoleum on the bottom sheet metal.

On the other hand, the is a lot of rust on the suspension components, front cross-member, and rear cross-member. My primary concerns is the cross-members. I have scraped a lot of flakes off. My question is, how to I tell when things have rusted too far? It seems to me there is still a lot of metal and there are no perforations. My initial plan is: scrape, scrape, wire brush, wire brush, sand, sand, rust remover, and then bed-liner or rustoleum.

My question is: how can I tell when the cross-members have rusted too much?




I know a bunch of you fellers know a whole lot more about all this than me, so I include my initial plan of attack:

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I am thinking of doing the following myself:






(1) Change spark plugs, air filter, PCV valve, cabin air filter



(2) Change fluids: engine, transaxle, rear differential



(3) Brake overhaul: new pads, calipers, rotors, flexible hoses, hardware, flush and bleed (solid lines OK)



(4) Replace ABS sensors when doing brakes (one failed, do other three while in there)



(5) Replace front suspension - strut assemblies, control arms and ball joints, sway bar links and bushings



(6) Replace steering tie-rod ends



(7) Replace strut assemblies, bushings, and sway bar links on rear suspension



(8) Replace exhaust back of catalytic converter (muffler has hole in it)



(9) Lots of sanding, naval jelly, primer, and paint (or bedliner) on underside






I am thinking of having a shop do the following and not myself:






(1) Flush and replace coolant - I have nowhere to dispose of used coolant - what to do with?






(2) Wheel alignment

(3) Weld any exhaust (while in shop for alignment)


[/TABLE]

Welcome thoughts.

Thanks.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I have dealt with similar corrosion issues before.. the way I could get an idea on how much metal was left was by tapping it with a ball peen hammer. If you have too little metal left, it will dent very easy, and the dent will be the least of your concerns. If still solid, it won't dent easy, and you can then go to clean and preserve. In the Navy they often use an impact tool known as a needle gun to remove rust, if the metal is mostly gone, it becomes pretty obvious. For the preservation, look into a special coating called POR-15. It's amazing stuff and it works best on RUSTY metal, and it will last the the remaining life if your vehicle (just heed the product warning to NOT get it on your skin, it cures with moisture and it will not come off your skin until it wears off, no kidding). Other thoughts.. your local government, or local parts store/shop should have a way to properly dispose of anti-freeze. I take mine to the county facility for low/moderate risk hazardous waste, it's a bit of a hassle to conform to their limited hours, but it works. I would guess any PA locality will have some provision for this as well.

 

[jgillott]

Start with #9 on your list first. Address your rust issues or potential rust issues first. You may find that it isn't worth putting any additional money in the vehicle if that rust is more extensive than you think.

I just posted a thread somewhere on here last winter about finally giving up on an old Jeep Cherokee that we've had in the family for many years. It was just too far gone to make any financial sense trying to fix it up.

On edit: Here is the thread I started last year on an old XJ. Maybe take a look at your rust in comparison to this one which we ended up selling off instead of trying to fix.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/257341-Jeep-Cherokee-Rust-Fix-or-Junk

 

[RUSSELL5000]

jgillot,

Did some more sanding, etc., last night. No rust on frame, etc., anything like your Cherokee thread. Frame and floor plan pretty good, only rust at "edges", paint still good. Front cross-member actually pretty good: there are still spots that are black mixed in with the rusty areas and minimal scale and flake.

The rear cross-member and suspension components are the question. I'll scrape some more tonight and post picture of scraped and not scraped. These parts can all be replaced - just wonder if need to.

Thanks.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

MichaelOverfield, I researched the POR-15. Many purchases and reviews, 98 percent at 5 stars. Seems like it is worth a shot.

Thanks.

 

[jgillott]

jgillot,

Did some more sanding, etc., last night. No rust on frame, etc., anything like your Cherokee thread. Frame and floor plan pretty good, only rust at "edges", paint still good. Front cross-member actually pretty good: there are still spots that are black mixed in with the rusty areas and minimal scale and flake.

The rear cross-member and suspension components are the question. I'll scrape some more tonight and post picture of scraped and not scraped. These parts can all be replaced - just wonder if need to.

Thanks.

That's good to hear. Good luck with the rest of your project.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Here is the rust situation.

This is intersection of frame and floor plan. This rust is common at junctions. My plan was to scrape, wire brush, coat with rust dissolved, rinse, and coat with either RustOleum rusty metal primer and RustOleum enamel OR bedliner. Now I may do POR-15.



The next two pictures show the rear cross-member. This is the most rusted component on the Patriot. The second of the two pictures show the gauge of the tube comprising the cross-member.



The last picture is the rear cross-member after I have scraped and run the wire wheel on the drill on it. It seems solid to me, and I would think could be coated and made to last.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Here is the rust situation.

This is intersection of frame and floor plan. This rust is common at junctions. My plan was to scrape, wire brush, coat with rust dissolved, rinse, and coat with either RustOleum rusty metal primer and RustOleum enamel OR bedliner. Now I may do POR-15.



The next two pictures show the rear cross-member. This is the most rusted component on the Patriot. The second of the two pictures show the gauge of the tube comprising the cross-member.



The last picture is the rear cross-member after I have scraped and run the wire wheel on the drill on it. It seems solid to me, and I would think could be coated and made to last.

That doesn't look too bad. Be careful with POR 15, make sure you have your skin protected when you apply it. It's great stuff, but it bonds extremely well to skin. When they say only time will wear it of if it gets on your skin, that is no joke. I verified it! I did the entire frame of my old Land Rover.

 

[Wayne M.]

Russell, you're a man beating my drum! I buy a vehicle for the long haul. That said I agree with what you're doing, and all the advice so far.
I've been using POR15 since the late '80's and the drips are still visible in the concrete of my Dads driveway! The other detail about that is POR needs to be top coated- UV from the sun degrades it, even if not directly in the light.
I work with municipal salt spreading vehicles daily. Your pictures look like a one year old vehicle, and we keep ours over 10 :-laf
Almost everyone has the tool Michael describes, it's called a needle scaler, and Harbor Freight sells a small one. You can use that on your seams, if you have a air compressor that can keep up with it. I use a welder's chipping hammer (basically a small pick hammer) to test the integrity of rusty parts. If it don't go through, were good. You can get one at Harbor also. For the coolant, I think in '08, Chrysler was still using Gold/ GO5 coolant. Just make sure you get the right stuff. Dispose it at the county haz mat drop off, or any larger shop should take without a hassle. It gets recycled, like waste oil.
I hear good things about the Patriot, and with no garbage options to break, I think you're making a wise move by trying to preserve it.
J, I remember your XJ thread!

 

[fest3er]

...Be careful with POR 15, make sure you have your skin protected when you apply it. It's great stuff, but it bonds extremely well to skin. When they say only time will wear it of if it gets on your skin, that is no joke. ...

Which brings to mind the classic thread How Do I Get Herculiner Off of My Hootus?! (As long as people with memories like mine live, Gerald will never live it down....)

 

[RUSSELL5000]

(1) POR-15 is ordered: one quart cleaner, one quart metal prep, and a pack of six 4 oz cans of the POR. The pack of six cans cost more than a quart, but I often work in small batches so I am going to see if there is less waste this way.

(2) Jeep has been up on stands for a couple of weeks now. I have been soaking all suspension bolts and nuts with PB Blaster continuously. I had to go to work this morning, but right after lunch started disassembly. I got all brake components other than parking brake assembly off in the evenings last week. I got the front strut assemblies off. I started in on the rear suspension next. I got some disassembly and then stalled. I was using two three-foot breaker bars and had to use the breakers on the entire length of each bolt - no ratchet or wrench, lots of grunts.

(3) Here is my first stall. I can't get the bolt out of the junction of the lower lateral control arm and the trailing arm. The bolts just backed out with a ratchet on other components. In this case I can see that the metal bushing insert is spinning with bolt as I turn the bolt. I put the nut on the end of the bolt and walloped on with a big hammer - no movement. Ideas?

(4) I got the nut off the chassis side of the toe link. However, too close to the gas tank to get a socket and breaker bar on. Could not budge with box-end wrench and hammer. Along the way I noticed this rust on the straps and shield. Maybe I'll be moving the gas tanks anyhow? I think I need to attack that rust.

I wonder if is time for a pneumatic torque wrench with a universal joint.

I suppose I would not know what to do if it worked simply and easily.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Definitely get an air impact wrench. You would be amazed at how much it helps with these stubborn rusted bolts. For the moving bushing.. can you get a set of vice grips on it? One of my last should have been simple jobs ended up involving my MIG welder. Turns out the oil drain plug on my Diesel Cruze was massively over torqued without a proper washer/seal. Previously I was drawing the oil out via the dipstick tube. Well long story short, I had to carefully weld a large nut on the stripped out drain plug to get it off. If you can weld, a small bead to stop the bushing rotation might work. You can also try heat/ice cycles to lossen things up. For the POR15, use some plastic wrap over the unused portion when you seal the can so you can open it later. It stores pretty well, but certainly the smaller cans make it even easier.

 

[Wayne M.]

Looks like you're going to Harbor Freight and dropping coin. While you're establishing your pneumatic tool and impact socket collection, get some jack stands. I see the wood, and that might be kinda ok, but really get some high safe stands.
Read the directions for the POR primer. It's a phosphate etching wash, and it's great, but heed the directions.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I have an 8 gallon air compressor with a stated 2HP and max 125 psi; states it will do 4.5 cfm at 90 psi. I need to stop for a needle scaler mentioned earlier. Guess I will have lots to buy!

The jeep is sitting on four stands at the jacking points and a fifth under the front cross-member. The wood blocking is in case there is a problem because my garage floor is not level. Belt and suspenders!:-laf

I'll try to grab that bushing. I don't have a welder.

Thanks!!

 

[Wayne M.]

Oops. Sorry, all I saw were blocks. Not far from my house, in the street is a Chevy cavalier that's about 3 feet in the air on what looks like a bunch of Jenga game sets.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I have an 8 gallon air compressor with a stated 2HP and max 125 psi; states it will do 4.5 cfm at 90 psi. I need to stop for a needle scaler mentioned earlier. Guess I will have lots to buy!

The jeep is sitting on four stands at the jacking points and a fifth under the front cross-member. The wood blocking is in case there is a problem because my garage floor is not level. Belt and suspenders!:-laf

I'll try to grab that bushing. I don't have a welder.

Thanks!!

For the POR15, the etch is important for new metal, and for galvanized, and aluminum.. to get a chemical bond. It won't hurt for old Rusty steel, but it's not required. Definitely consider adding a MIG welder to your toolbox. I joke that I seems that the welder has become a tool in almost every job now that I have one. Many uses, and they are far cheaper than they used to be. A MIG with .024 wire, tank of cheap CO2 and you would be amazed at what you can do. I even repaired an input drive shaft on my tractor and that alone saved me nearly as much as the cost of the welder

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I went to Harbor Freight this afternoon and left my pile of cash for lower-quality pneumatic tools which I hope will be ok for how much I will use them.

I plumbed together hoses, quick releases, and an air filter - regulator - tool oiler mounted on a 6 x 6 wood block. I tried out the needle scaler - boy will that save time and result in better job than I would get with a scraper, wire brush, and sandpaper.

That is all for this afternoon. I put some ribs in the smoker before noon and it is time for a beer and chow; maybe watch some football.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Wayne M.]

I went to Harbor Freight this afternoon and left my pile of cash for lower-quality pneumatic tools which I hope will be ok for how much I will use them.

I plumbed together hoses, quick releases, and an air filter - regulator - tool oiler mounted on a 6 x 6 wood block. I tried out the needle scaler - boy will that save time and result in better job than I would get with a scraper, wire brush, and sandpaper.

That is all for this afternoon. I put some ribs in the smoker before noon and it is time for a beer and chow; maybe watch some football.

Thanks for the help.

Sounds like big progress.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

This evening after work I took after the rear cross-member with the needle scaler. I think I had the knob way too far on the oiler because oil dripped off the ends of the needles.

I used the needle scaler and a wire wheel on the floor pan area behind the rear differential. Got most all rust off and metal shiny. There is a lot of area where the paint is firm and no rust. I was thinking of sanding and wire wheeling everywhere. I would use the POR15 cleaner everywhere and the POR15 metal prep anywhere there is some rust. The POR15 coating would go on any rust/bare metal areas. I would then coat everything with bedliner. Anyhow, that is my initial thought.

A plus was that I got the driver side lower lateral control arm off tonight. I got a bigger hammer, whacked the bolt hard, and it came out. The passenger side bolt will still not move; I beat the bolt so hard the end is starting to mushroom.

I'll have a lot more fun with the needle scaler I am sure.

 

[Wayne M.]

Another great top coating for the floors etc, after you hit everything with POR, is 3M undercoat. I think the # is 08881. Covers well and rather flat as far as gooey undercoat goes.