Additional coolant heater

[MarkEagleUSA]

Going into my first winter with a CTD I'm concerned about the time it takes to warm up the engine before the heat kicks in. Currently, with temps in the high 30's/low 40's, it takes almost my entire 10-mile 20-minute ride into work before I feel heat (and even then it's only luke-warm). I know the current block heater is working since when it's plugged in, the wait to start lamp is only on a few seconds. When not plugged in it take a full 20 seconds for the light to go out. I can't imagine what will happen when the temp dips into the 20's (or lower). Since I'll be using the truck to plow my driveway, I am primarily concerned about be able to use defrost to keep the windshield clear.

I'm looking at a Kat's 13150 circulating tank heater. Is it ok to use this instead of (or in addition to) the OEM block heater? If so, any tips on installation (where to plumb it, etc)?

 

[DavidC]

Quite a long time ago a member mentioned turning the AC on max and adjusting the heat knob all the way up. I still do that today and can literally watch the temp rising. If I turn the selector back to heat I can watch it dropping. Near as I can figure is the hot gas going through the system gets sucked thru the radiator which quickly warms things up. Now this works on my 99 and I do not know if it works on all years or not but it is worth a try. I literally have heat coming from the registers within 2 miles.

Dave

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Quite a long time ago a member mentioned turning the AC on max and adjusting the heat knob all the way up. I still do that today and can literally watch the temp rising. If I turn the selector back to heat I can watch it dropping. Near as I can figure is the hot gas going through the system gets sucked thru the radiator which quickly warms things up. Now this works on my 99 and I do not know if it works on all years or not but it is worth a try. I literally have heat coming from the registers within 2 miles.

Dave

Interesting concept. The 03 has an integrated HVAC control but I'll try hitting the AC button on the next cool/cold morning (currently around 60 here... crazy New England weather).

I'd still like to hear opinions on a circulating coolant heater to use on those frosty snowy mornings.

 

[promisedland]

Is your thermostat working correctly ?

 

[JR]

Do you use a winter front for your commute? They do make a difference.
I have a tank style heater on the wife's TDI as they do not come from the factory with any block heaters. It works much better (as in hotter) than the block heater in my Dodge, but between plugging it in and using a winter front I've never really felt the NEED to add one.
Admittedly the extra heat would be nice.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Is your thermostat working correctly ?

As best I can tell it is. Gauge gets up to 190-ish and holds there... just takes a while to get there.

Do you use a winter front for your commute? They do make a difference.
I have a tank style heater on the wife's TDI as they do not come from the factory with any block heaters. It works much better (as in hotter) than the block heater in my Dodge, but between plugging it in and using a winter front I've never really felt the NEED to add one.
Admittedly the extra heat would be nice.

Don't currently have a winter front but am thinking of getting one. Again, my biggest concern is not having defrost capability quickly enough in the snow and ice.

 

[JR]

Again, my biggest concern is not having defrost capability quickly enough in the snow and ice.

Having owned a 2nd gen 12+ years I can completely relate. They take even longer to heat up than a CR. The winter front (a true winter front, not just a piece of card board in front of the radiator or something blocking off the front grill) made the biggest difference for me.
Even in single digit temps with the block heater plugged in and winter front on, I'd start it, clear the windows off and go. Within a few minutes of moderate driving the engine made enough heat to keep the windows clear. Idling to warm up doesn't help especially in cold weather. It's really a preference IMO, the truck doesn't need it but if you want it by all means go for it. It will definitely be a big improvement over the block heater. You definitely won't need to use the combination of the two the tank heater will be more than sufficient. Not completely familiar with your plumbing but the best place to tie one in would be so that the flow goes from the tank heater into the engine block. Heater core plumbing would be where I would look to tie into. Tying it "down stream" of the stat would heat everything in the radiator first and be much less effective.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Not completely familiar with your plumbing but the best place to tie one in would be so that the flow goes from the tank heater into the engine block. Heater core plumbing would be where I would look to tie into. Tying it "down stream" of the stat would heat everything in the radiator first and be much less effective.

The Kat's that I'm looking at does just that. They suggest either a block drain plug (possibly where the current block heater goes in?) or lower radiator hose and then one of the heater hoses (depending on the lower connection). The 1500 watt circulating model claims to heat from 135-175.

I just don't know enough about these Cummins to make educated decisions on these types of things... that's why I joined here!

 

[cerberusiam]

I think your best bet is a winter front. The OE heater works quite well circulating in the block and getting it warm where it will hold the heat where it is needed. Until the thermostat opens the coolant just circulates in the block anyway so heating what is in the radiator isn't needed.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I think your best bet is a winter front. The OE heater works quite well circulating in the block and getting it warm where it will hold the heat where it is needed. Until the thermostat opens the coolant just circulates in the block anyway so heating what is in the radiator isn't needed.

At what temperature should I start using a winter front? Will it hurt anything if we still get some 60-70 days before the cold sets in?

As said, it's not the lack of heat that bothers me, it's the lack of defrost when I need to plow. The circulating heater's 150+/- is much closer to opening the t-stat than the OEM's 70-ish.

 

[cerberusiam]

Watch you coolant temps and open it if needed. At low load if should not be a problem.

Might be time to replace the OE heater if it isn't heating well enough. You should see enough to clear the windows after 1-2 hours plugged unless it is REALLY cold. at 14 years old it may corroded and just not working well anymore or just burning out.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Watch you coolant temps and open it if needed. At low load if should not be a problem.

I assume you're referring to the defroster?

Might be time to replace the OE heater if it isn't heating well enough. You should see enough to clear the windows after 1-2 hours plugged unless it is REALLY cold. at 14 years old it may corroded and just not working well anymore or just burning out.

Bear with me as I'm trying to learn...

As stated in my original post, when plugged in the wait-to-start lamp goes out in 2-3 seconds. When not plugged in it takes a full 20 seconds. Doesn't that indicate the block heater is working? And even at that, if the t-stat isn't open how does enough warm coolant get to the heater core to make a difference?

 

[cerberusiam]

The winter cover should have flaps on it that can partially open the radiator area to draw ir in. When your coolant temps start getting too high form lack of air flow open them.

The grid heaters and WTS are run off the IAT sensor, anything over 60 degrees in the intake and they won't cycle until the engine start sand it draws in cold air. Grid heaters will continue to cycle at idle after start until it runs the sequence, IAT's warm or you exceed 5 mph. IIRC the heater core is fed off the back side of the engine and returns to the front so you should have warm air almost immediately if the engine coolant is warm and it should keep cycling warm coolant as the engine runs and warms. If you are not getting warm air to the defroster that could be a plugged hearer core or a problem in the heater box controlling air flow.

 

[Prairie Dog]

Sure better than the first gen I had.
Crossing Kansas at night at -12 degrees and completley unloaded, I was slowly freezing in the cab. Even with a snow suit on I was shivering and could see my breath. Truck was new but it just couldn't make any heat!
Bought some winter fronts after that.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I ordered a winter cover last night... figured it can't hurt. Have a busy weekend ahead but hope to find some time to flush the heater core just to be sure it's not a problem. I'll check the all little things first before taking more drastic measures.

 

[Ozymandias]

Winterfront rulez, make a HUGE difference. you´ll see.
this engine is just to big and has an to easy life in this vehicle to make a lot of heat, so every cold air that is blocked from entering the engine compartment and cooling the engine block externaly helps a lot.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Didn't have time to do anything extensive today but I was able to get the IR thermometer on the heater hoses. With the gauge at 190+/- the 2 hoses were with 5-8 degrees of each other. With the blower on HIGH that opened up to 12-15 degrees difference. That seems to indicate to me that the heater core is ok. I may still flush it when I get a chance just to be safe.

I'll wait for my winter cover to arrive next week before making any other decisions on what to do.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Definitely flush that core. At 14 years old you can bet it’s nasty inside. I’ve replaced several heater cores in the last year for poor output of heat. I like third gens because it’s pretty easy to pull the hvac box and while you are at it, replace the evaporator core AND do the heater treater mods. I probably opened up a can of worms but it’s just advice.

 

[Ozymandias]

Definitely flush that core. At 14 years old you can bet it’s nasty inside. I’ve replaced several heater cores in the last year for poor output of heat. I like third gens because it’s pretty easy to pull the hvac box and while you are at it, replace the evaporator core AND do the heater treater mods. I probably opened up a can of worms but it’s just advice.

or a blend door doesnt work correctly.
only 5-8° difference inlet to outlet is way to less and shows a bad heat tranfer either from the core or the blend door.

 

[RBridenbaugh]

We do a lot of winter camping using a slide in camper. Mainly road trips to ski areas with stays of 3-5 days each. While we have a block heater, it doesn't see too much use as we have a heated garage. When at the ski resort if the temps are in the minus 10 range or colder we will plug in the block heater and the oil pan heater into the generator about 2 hours before departure.

The mopar winter front really helps keep the engine /heater output warm, especially when going downhill from the ski area, as there isn't much load on the engine.

What really warms up the truck quickly after starting at the ski area in the cold, with or without using the block heater, is the exhaust brake. The PacBrake exhaust brake on my truck activates during idle and high idle until the truck warms up. The load it puts on the engine quickly brings the coolant up to temperature. By the time I have the snow cleared off the hood, scraped the ice from the side windows and mirrors, the defroster is already melting the ice on the windshield.

The exhaust brake is my favorite add-on for my truck. Besides the quick warm up of my truck, it slows the truck down without having to use the brakes very much, so less wear on the brakes. With the 4,200 lb camper in the back it makes steep descents on mountain roads controlled and comfortable without riding the brakes. During winter in 2WD, it is better to shut off the exhaust brake when driving on icy roads to avoid it causing a skid. However in 4WD and idling downhill on compact snow, in the right gear, with sticky studded snow tires, it gives you lots of control and doesn't cause the truck to skid when you take your foot of the accelerator pedal.

If you want actual warmup times with and without the exhaust brake, ask and I'll pull the truck out of the garage and measure it. The overnight temperatures will be in the mid to low teen the next five days and warm up to the twenties late in the week