04.5 2500 rebuild

[KOG]

Just bought this for $1000 knowing that it had been run low on oil, bad engine knock. Pulled pan, verified damaged bearings, lightly scored crank. Engine is coming out for full rebuild. Transmission is a MOPAR rebuilt unknown mileage, but pan is spotless, looks to be recent. I tow 20-21,000lbs on a gooseneck flatbed. I want to have injectors tested, replace anything else needed. I'm planning to turn it up to at least 400 (HO 325 HP now), but don't want to break the transmission. Suggestions for upgrades to keep it reliable while I've got it apart?

 

[Killer223]

added fuel filtration, get a shift kit in the trans asap.
clean air, oil, fuel. it'll treat you right.

 

[Tuesdak]

As I found out "tested" injectors don't predict any remaining life in them. How many miles on them and what kind of fuel filter system, OEM? Any idea where the oil was going to get "low" in the first place?

 

[Bromiley99]

Oh man I just bought an 04 with a bad motor about two weeks ago, motor is out been at the machine shop for almost a week. Problem #6 top ring was broke. Had my injectors tested for $40/each all passed!! So far aside from the rebuild I've bought injection pump, water pump, oil cooler, oil pump, paint for motor, an oil gauge tube (Just couldn't get the original out in one piece). As far as the transmission goes if ya got the funds buy your torque converter an parts from Goerend Transmission, just did an auto in a 12v an absolutely love it!!!!

 

[cerberusiam]

Problem #6 top ring was broke. Had my injectors tested for $40/each all passed!!

Hmmmm, probably should examine the validity of that statement a lot closer before assembly. Rings don't usually break if injectors ARE good. Injectors testing good in some random shop is about as useless a conclusion as there is.

Broken rings IS injector problems from over fueling. Lacking any info on history those injectors are just good cores.

 

[Bromiley99]

Hmmmm, probably should examine the validity of that statement a lot closer before assembly. Rings don't usually break if injectors ARE good. Injectors testing good in some random shop is about as useless a conclusion as there is.

Broken rings IS injector problems from over fueling. Lacking any info on history those injectors are just good cores.

I figured heat was ultimately what took the engine down, the question is what caused it. The injectors over fueling was actually my first thought, hence the test. Guess I didn't realize injector testing was so worthless. I've also never herd broken rings=bad injectors. I don't know much history or how accurate the history I got is, but injectors were supposedly changed 5k miles prior to incident coupled with the test I figured I had ruled them out buuut I guess not.

 

[cerberusiam]

Excess heat and a tight ring gap is one cause, but, you don't get excess heat unless there is more fuel than intended at the wrong time. With the late injection timing and minimization of dwell time that really isn't as big of a concern as the cylinder pressure which will also break the rings. Fuel injected too early is just as bad as too much fuel in the main event, spikes the cylinder pressures AND heat in the cylinder so double whammy.

What does "injectors tested good" really mean? What did they test? How did they test it? What test bench? How much experience did the tester really have? If they did not a flow test at the full range of pressures you have nothing but garbage for results. What an injector will flow at one pressure point is not what it may do at another, you flow across a range up to 1600 bar to see what is happening as wear and injector setup will impact a lot of variables that determine HOW the injector actually performs. These are not jerk pump injectors injecting at 9k psi or less, they run a range of 6k to 23k psi in normal operating scenarios and they MUST be calibrated and balanced correctly or they are just cores. If you don't know WHAT exactly the injectors that were replaced are lowest common denominator, probably a set of Bosch remans which are questionable quality anyway.

Really hard to tell on a CR injector, you might be OK or just a problem waiting to happen.

 

[KOG]

Got it partly torn down today. Bores look good, but haven't miked them yet, no ridge at top so not much wear apparent. Flip it over in the morning and check cam/lifters. Pulling pistons in any case to check wrist pins. It'll certainly need a crank kit.






Italics don't appear to work here.

 

[ColemanR]

I'd highly recommend adding a stage 2 cam to your list of parts. I just rebuilt the motor in my 06 I went with 03/04 pistons,Colt stage 2 cam.BB1 injectors,balanced it and lowered the compression back to 16.1. It tows amazing it pulls from 1000rpm on up.

 

[KOG]

I'll look into that cam. What brand?
Going to be bored and pistons, all are scuffed badly, #6 ring broken. Is there any way to pull injectors without the magic special tool? And I'm thinking the transfer tube must come out before injectors can be pulled? Lower compression with pistons or thicker gasket? I'm slightly stunned by the cost of gasket sets, never mind the injectors.

 

[ColemanR]

I'll look into that cam. What brand?
Going to be bored and pistons, all are scuffed badly, #6 ring broken. Is there any way to pull injectors without the magic special tool? And I'm thinking the transfer tube must come out before injectors can be pulled? Lower compression with pistons or thicker gasket? I'm slightly stunned by the cost of gasket sets, never mind the injectors.

I had mine bored .20 over and changed to the 03/04 style pistons. The cam I used is a Colt stage 2. Transfer tubes have to come out first then the injectors come out pretty easy with a big flat blade screwdriver. My engine builder recommended lowering the compression by shortening the rods when he rebuilt them as well as a thicker gasket. These engines are not cheap to build. I have right at 10K in mine.

 

[vr1967]

I rebuilt my 06 with a .020 over rebore, QSB480 Pistons, Hamilton cam, reman'd head from Cummins, balanced, new turbo cartridge, new pushrods, and several misc other parts for a little less than $5k

 

[TConver]

I have about 6k in mine after new piston kit, machine work including the head, arp 625 head, main and rod bolts, all new gen 4 rocker arms, forged push rods and new tappets, new engine oil cooler, turbo rebuild kit, and 103# hamilton springs. I did the assembly.

 

[ColemanR]

The 10K I spent included a New Cp3,BB1 injectors,head studs,waterpump,new rocker assys,ect....

 

[KOG]

Used a short fuel line to pull transfer tubes, micro sized pry bars to pull injectors, no trouble. Now to wait for machineshop. I've been told they will only sleeve these back to stock, will not overbore as they've had porosity problems with some blocks in the past. A friend of mine confirms that porosity has happened as it's happened to him. Cracked cap rods can't be resized so we're waiting to see if they are usable or have to be replaced.


Cam and lifters have survived in good condition and for my purposes I really don't need much more cam than stock. I do not wish to make enough power (torque) to require a high dollar transmission.

 

[TConver]

Used a short fuel line to pull transfer tubes, micro sized pry bars to pull injectors, no trouble. Now to wait for machineshop. I've been told they will only sleeve these back to stock, will not overbore as they've had porosity problems with some blocks in the past. A friend of mine confirms that porosity has happened as it's happened to him. Cracked cap rods can't be resized so we're waiting to see if they are usable or have to be replaced.


Cam and lifters have survived in good condition and for my purposes I really don't need much more cam than stock. I do not wish to make enough power (torque) to require a high dollar transmission.

Rocker arms for a gen 4 are cheap and most of the older ones will have signs of galling. Check your lifters, mine were wore flat, they need to be slightly convex so that they spin as the cam lobes rotate. Again cheap to replace.

 

[KOG]

Brand and source for gaskets, head bolts/studs, injectors, rods, pistons, other parts? I'm doing assembly.

 

[TConver]

Brand and source for gaskets, head bolts/studs, injectors, rods, pistons, other parts? I'm doing assembly.

I got my gaskets as a piston set with gaskets, rings, pistons, wrist pins from enterprise. They were cummins gaskets and mahle/clevite parts. Rods I reused. ARP studs i think from pure diesel. Rocker arms, tappets and pushrods also from pure diesel.

 

[KOG]

Got inspection results today. #6 cylinder scored and needs sleeve, other 5 are basically unworn and will clean up with hone (150K on engine showing). Head is fine, will put stem seals on anyway while it's out. Main question now is injectors. My those things are pricey for ISBs.

After looking at some other posts I'm starting to lean toward BBi 0.5s. Since BBi is Austrian I may get my sister (who lives in Germany) to call them.

As I'm replacing pistons I have the option of using 03-04 bowl instead of 04.5 up design. BBi does use different spray pattern for the two. Would there be any advantage to using the earlier bowl for my (relatively) modest power goals in heavy towing?

 

[KOG]

BBi suggests that the 03 bowl and spray angle gives slightly more power and slightly less haze for a given amount of fuel so they suggest using the earlier piston when rebuilding.

Gorend 15SS single disk converter on the way.