No more Borgeson steering boxes for 2nd gen Dodge?

[Joe Mc]

Just ordered (from Geno's Garage) the PSC box. BTW: $35 less than from PSC.

I checked with PSC (email) to see if I can use my steering stabilizer with their box, here's reply from their Tech: "You will likely have to modify that stabilizer if you want to use it with our gear box. Our design moves the sector shaft over a little bit so you will likely have to adjust your drag link and if you want to use that stabilizer, you'll have to do a little cutting and/or welding for it to fit."

Will update once install is completed and if I decide to "tweak-a-bit" the steering stabilizer or not...

 

[FHerault]

Just ordered (from Geno's Garage) the PSC box. BTW: $35 less than from PSC.

I checked with PSC (email) to see if I can use my steering stabilizer with their box, here's reply from their Tech: "You will likely have to modify that stabilizer if you want to use it with our gear box. Our design moves the sector shaft over a little bit so you will likely have to adjust your drag link and if you want to use that stabilizer, you'll have to do a little cutting and/or welding for it to fit."

Will update once install is completed and if I decide to "tweak-a-bit" the steering stabilizer or not...

I will follow your updates since my steering box is pretty shot and I would like to keep the steering stabilizer...

 

[Joe Mc]

If I decide to "tweak" the stabilizer and reuse I'll take pictures and make notes.

 

[FL Cruiser]

With the PSC, the steering stabilizer can be used by modifying and fabricating. It will entail more than just cutting off the ear that holds the bearing and making a new one. The steering box is so big, the main body protrudes into the area where the upper part of the main lateral brace spans. A drop in the area of the steering box will need to be added in.
It is definitely doable, but will require some fabrication time. This steering box is BIG. The original looks like a toy sitting next to it. It does fit in the vehicle and clears everything just enough.

 

[Joe Mc]

Thanks FL, any pictures you can share to give an idea?

 

[JMcCoy]

I have the borgeson box and shaft. I am not overly impressed, and the shaft already wieked loose once. I would be interested to see how this PSE box works out.

 

[petersonj]

I have the borgeson box and shaft. I am not overly impressed, and the shaft already wieked loose once.

Although you have a '98 and I have an '02, I think the Borgeson steering shafts are similar. Check how easily the two parts of the shafts slide. If it takes some effort, you may have the same problem that I had with the sliding portion of the shaft. Inside the coupling is a tension spring (kind of like a miniature leaf spring) that was causing too much friction. I even reduced the arc of the tension spring and made sure it was well lubed, but it still required effort to make it slide. I finally just removed it and it freed up the sliding portion of the shaft.

I mention this because I had the same problem (mine was the upper connection coming loose) and I had a very subtle clunk in the feel of the steering wheel. Once I removed the tension spring, the steering shaft has remained tight at all connections and the steering wheel operation has been very smooth (for over 40,000 miles now).

It took me 25,000 miles of driving to figure this out. It makes sense to me that if the steering shaft sliding coupler could not move easily, that it would transfer axial forces back and forth while turning the steering wheel which would likely result in loosing other connections. If this is not the case in your truck, please disregard this post.

- John

 

[JMcCoy]

Thank you John. I will take a look at that tension spring. Does the PSE box work with the borgeson shaft?

 

[Joe Mc]

FL Cruiser was dead on. I received the “59 lbs.” PSC unit and it is huge compared to the stock box. Began installation yesterday, I say “began” as I ran out of light and it started to rain last night. What a RPIA hefting that thing up and down out of the chassis to see what was interfering with it going up and in. At this point the box is hanging in there by one bolt, thank god at least, hopefully, I’m done with bench pressing the unit up and down, fighting with the creeper from creeping down the driveway (gave up on using the creeper) and fighting the floor jack from creeping down the driveway while trying to get a bolt thru the chassis to the box as well. It is “not” a direct R & R in the classic sense as it appears (in the dwindling light and from what I could see with a drop light) that the fluid lines from the pump will need to be tweaked from hitting the wiring harness along the timing cover, or the harness might need to be moved, or both, not totally sure as of yet, hope to know more today if the rain holds off. Also, the trans lines to the rad are right on the side of the box and will need to be bent out of the way, not sure about the pitman arm to drag link mounting hole yet = it appears to be a tapered hole but looks smaller that the original so I might need to take the old arm and new one to a machine shop for matched tapering of the hole, I hope not....????

A few notes for those that have not yet installed the PSC box:
1- If you don’t have an 1-13/16” socket get one now, NAPA had in-stock @ $27. None of the local to me parts stores near me (Autozone, Etc.) had in-stock nor did HomoDepot or even Sears.
2- PSC doesn’t include installation instructions. I “guess” it’s supposed to be a direct R & R = not.
3- Plan on getting someone to help install that first bolt - although 59# isn’t really heavy if you’re laying on your back trying to heft it in and out it might as well be a ton.
4- Plan on tweaking the trans lines and possibly moving the wiring harness that runs along the side of the timing cover.
5- If you haven’t already extended or otherwise addressed the puke hose (a.k.a. = Dodge auxiliary chassis lubrication system) from the timing cover now would be a good time.

More to come once complete.
I’m calling PSC as soon as they open (8AM TX time) to ask “a few” questions, such as: why a $700 non-stock box doesn’t include some sort of installation tips/instructions. And to seek info on some other things I’d like to know.

Not totally ****** off yet, I was prepared when I opened the box and eyeballed the whole job to see how much “fun” it was going to be, just a bit un-nerved that there were no instructions.

 

[Joe Mc]

Starting new post titled "PSC 04-02 Dodge BIG BORE XD 2500/3500 Steering Gear - New Design 02/2018 - My Experiences".

This box is being a RFPIA to install!

 

[rickybobby]

Hey Joe, how did your PSC box installation turn out? I'm considering purchasing one. Any word from PSC on instructions?

 

[BK]

Sorry double post, deleted text.

 

[BK]

I failed inspection due to the incontinence my box exhibited during inspection, and that made them look at the play of the output shaft, and they failed me for safety inspection.


Years past, they thought it was just a lower radiator hose leak (I had put green die in the power steering fluid to make sure it was the steering box, not engine oil). Recently at odd times it would decide to let a load of fluid out, poor fella is getting old. Others times it keep it together.


So I had them put in a rebuilt box in, 2 months later, it blew it's output seal, lost all fluid, lost steering, brakes.. thankfully it was when I was backing my truck into driveway with a car trailer.... hadn't picked up the car yet. Thankfully it didn't happen on the expressway at 60mph with the car on the trailer.


So ordered the PSC BIG BORE XD from Geno, week later they told me it was on back order, just kept it on order.. came in on Feb 17th. The shop owed me labor, for the box that could have killed me. So he installed it. The only 2 problems we had was:

1) had to get a new steering shaft.. my originally 99 shaft couldn't collapse enough, too rusted.

2) had to cut down the drag link to adjust it in enough to get all things to line up with all things centered.


The box just squeezed in there between everything on my 99 QC 4wd. Nice box, make missing pot holes a lot easier.

Genos called me to ask me if I had any problems installing it.. seems others had to cut the drag link too. Just a few more threads and we would have had to cut threads on the drag link.

 

[KrisKringle]

Wow, it is news to me that the Borgeson boxes are no longer available. I installed one back in 2011 when I did a complete front-end rebuild at 140K miles. I also installed the Borgensen shaft. Yes, I needed to check the toque on the cap bolts, yes, I also needed to tighten the lash 1.5 turns to take out excesive play. However, I guess I got lucky; mine is oil-tight, as well as the 3.5 ratio. Oh, and buy from Geno's

 

[KrisKringle]

Oh, I noticed it was starting to make that "clunk" noise again and there was play in the steering. So I just gave it ANOTHER 1/2 turn. Somehow, there still seems to be a clunk in the steering wheel, I did a search of the forums, but came up with nothing. Strange, since I have the kit in inventory to fix this issue that once upon a time seemed to be common.

 

[tazzen]

KrisKringle,
what is this clunk you speak of? My 01 with 144000 on the clock. Seems to have developed a CLUNK. And i cant find it.

Buck

 

[KrisKringle]

I believe the clunk is a result of the tension spring in the steering column. Somewhere in the forums there is a fix...here: Steering Wheel Clunk / Rattle : Solved With Column Bushing Fix !

I have the kit, just have not gotten around to installing it yet...

 

[petersonj]

believe the clunk is a result of the tension spring in the steering column. Somewhere in the forums there is a fix...here: Steering Wheel Clunk / Rattle : Solved With Column Bushing Fix !

I have the kit, just have not gotten around to installing it yet...

For those who have converted to the Borgeson steering shaft, the clunk you feel and set screws coming loose are likely caused by a stiff tension spring (looks like a leaf spring) inside the Boregeson steering shaft sliding coupler. The high friction caused by this tension spring in this coupler can restrict axial movement so this energy will be transferred axially, pushing and pulling on all the steering parts from the steering wheel to the steering gearbox - resulting in feeling a clunk and/or set screws coming loose. In my case I had both symptoms.

The "Rock Solid" replacement lower steering shaft bushing does not fix this issue. I know because I installed the "Rock Solid" bushing and thought I had resolved the problem. What makes it so difficult to diagnose is that each time I removed one end of the steering shaft, I depressed the sliding coupling. That action alone masked the symptoms because the sliding coupling would operated properly for several hundred miles, and then the symptoms would slowly come back.

When I finally removed the tension spring in the Borgeson steering shaft, the symptoms immediately disappeared and the steering performed flawlessly. The steering became smooth and has stayed clunk free and the set screws have stayed tight for over 50,000 miles now.

The Borgeson steering shaft sliding coupling problem may not occur for everyone, but it is the problem, all other repairs will not fix the symptoms and you will probably become quite frustrated, like me. It took me 25,000 miles of driving to figure this out.

- John

 

[tazzen]

For those who have converted to the Borgeson steering shaft, the clunk you feel and set screws coming loose are likely caused by a stiff tension spring (looks like a leaf spring) inside the Boregeson steering shaft sliding coupler. The high friction caused by this tension spring in this coupler can restrict axial movement so this energy will be transferred axially, pushing and pulling on all the steering parts from the steering wheel to the steering gearbox - resulting in feeling a clunk and/or set screws coming loose. In my case I had both symptoms.

The "Rock Solid" replacement lower steering shaft bushing does not fix this issue. I know because I installed the "Rock Solid" bushing and thought I had resolved the problem. What makes it so difficult to diagnose is that each time I removed one end of the steering shaft, I depressed the sliding coupling. That action alone masked the symptoms because the sliding coupling would operated properly for several hundred miles, and then the symptoms would slowly come back.

When I finally removed the tension spring in the Borgeson steering shaft, the symptoms immediately disappeared and the steering performed flawlessly. The steering became smooth and has stayed clunk free and the set screws have stayed tight for over 50,000 miles now.

The Borgeson steering shaft sliding coupling problem may not occur for everyone, but it is the problem, all other repairs will not fix the symptoms and you will probably become quite frustrated, like me. It took me 25,000 miles of driving to figure this out.

- John

ok thats all very helpfuul. But my steering is all stock.So any other thoughts.

Thanks Buck