Why I cannot drive my diesel like my mother's car

[Removed at users request]

A lot of of people buying diesels today that have never driven a diesel until now and have experience only in a gasoline drivenvehicle or do not understand the operating parameters in which a diesel engine functions are in a deficit of basic diesel knowledge. A lot of the problems are real, however comma, how real are they. One cannot drive a diesel powered pickup as if it were a gasoline powered vehicle. They are likened to salt and pepper. The educating of a diesels operating parameters is a tricky thing that takes a long time. Howsoever, an easy picture that will explain this functioning is on display on YouTube. Look up the tractor pulls. Specifically the diesel pulls. They are Cummins, Fords and Gimmy pickups, etc. Pick whichever and tune in for a quick, down and dirty look at how and why you cannot drive your diesel like your Mothers car. Watch closely as each gets the green flag. What am I looking for? Exactly right young fella. You are watching how long it takes each and every specimen/species of diesel used to spool up before it can take off. Key words are spool up. The turbo has to spool up in order for each diesel to get the required power needed to pull the weight sled. Pay very close attention to the exhaust stack(s) as each spools up. What sticks out to you? Until the exhaust stacks are exhausting some serious(lots and lots of) black exhaust
smoke they are not going anywhere. Each sled pulling diesel operator understands these basic operating parameters. If you take the time to watch this phenomenon of physics and really attempt to learn then you know the reason you can't go from zero to 60 in a split second. One must learn to drive a diesel reasonably within its operating parameters. Diesels pickups are not hotrods. If you are interested in learning more let me know. The youtube sled pulls are the best example of what a diesels operating parameters are. I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you. That is your choice. Good luck.
Chopsuey out. Carry on.

 

[NIsaacs]

This is probably not a 4th gen. subject.....About the only thing a stock diesel pickup and a serious diesel sled puller have in common, is they both burn diesel.....

Nick

 

[Removed at users request]

in all reality it is. read it again. It is relevant to all things diesel. This does pertain. One must understand first, then progress.

 

[6V92TA]

this has got to be the weirdest post I have seen on TBD

 

[NIsaacs]

in all reality it is. read it again. It is relevant to all things diesel. This does pertain. One must understand first, then progress.

How would you describe a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel with a gear drive roots type blower, that produces positive boost at all times? What happens if the blower drive splines strip and the blower stops, can you still drive it with reduced power? Same question for a 4 stroke Cummins equipped with the same blower. What about the numerous turbo charged gassers, are they different than a turbo charged diesel? What about the naturally aspirated diesels?

Nick

 

[tractorhauler]

Wow. Those pullers are not stock. Bigger turbos, some add a little water to get the steam effect, no emissions. Your not comparing apples to apples. Apples to basketballs maybe.
When pulling, it's more about RPM's. The turbos are pulling so much more air than a stock turbo. Listen to a puller when he runs out of power. You hear a chirping sond. That's called getting under the turbo. Not enough air in the turbo produces no air out equals no boost.
Tide pods?

 

[Ram4Sam]

this has got to be the weirdest post I have seen on TBD

I'll second that......:-laf....and I have been here awhile......

Sam

 

[Jim W]

this has got to be the weirdest post I have seen on TBD

I also agree with that statement. I also drive a diesel car a VW TDI Jetta which is my wife's car. We drive this just like a gas engine powered car.

 

[CMB]

Whoa....:--)

 

[BD-Hector]

Most kids today by a Diesel for the cool factor, then they notice they are a dog off the line. Then the want go fast parts and blow black smoke all over the place. Key is to educate them that black smoke is not power or speed, but we can make the engine get up and go a lot sooner then a stock diesel.

 

[PT02063]

chopsuey - please...put the beer down and step away from the keyboard. Excessive drinking and forum surfing are never a good thing.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wait. What?

But the 2 stroke Detroit thing, Nick. That engine needs the blower just to run, it has nothing to with performance in its original application. And yes when the wishbone breaks, party's over.

 

[NIsaacs]

Wait. What?

But the 2 stroke Detroit thing, Nick. That engine needs the blower just to run, it has nothing to with performance in its original application. And yes when the wishbone breaks, party's over.

Actually the blower was a performance mod in itself, in the early era before turbos, and natural aspiration was the norm. But yes, if the blower stops on a 2 stroke, the engine is dead in the water. Not so on a 4 stroke, it will start and run, just smoke like crazy and not pull itself

Nick

 

[KCJackson1]

Actually the blower was a performance mod in itself, in the early era before turbos, and natural aspiration was the norm. But yes, if the blower stops on a 2 stroke, the engine is dead in the water. Not so on a 4 stroke, it will start and run, just smoke like crazy and not pull itself

Nick

Wayne's point was, the blower was used exclusively for exhaust scavenging, not for boosted performance. Detroits later offered turbochargers for improved power/performance (e.g. 6V92TA) while continuing to use the superchargers for scavenging.

 

[NIsaacs]

Wayne's point was, the blower was used exclusively for exhaust scavenging, not for boosted performance.

Now that you pointed it out I can see what his point was.

Thanks, Nick

 

[gsbrockman]

Happy to contribute a useless post within a verrrrrrrrrrrrry useless thread.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wayne's point was, the blower was used exclusively for exhaust scavenging, not for boosted performance. Detroits later offered turbochargers for improved power/performance (e.g. 6V92TA) while continuing to use the superchargers for scavenging.

Thanks KC. yes, scavenging. Not many understand exactly how the 'ol screamers work. I was going to tango with Nick, but pizza happened.

Back to the OP.

I think I know what the chap was trying to describe and explain, and it's something unique to turbocharged diesels. It's called "Torque Rise" and I see it as what the turbo causes when it "comes on", and the AFC is on point. I don't think normally aspirated diesels have torque rise. You won't experience it in a Camry, but you'll see it at the tractor pulls.

Explained here....

https://youtu.be/7ediSVu85cQ

 

[Bill Lins]

I think I know what the chap was trying to describe and explain, and it's something unique to turbocharged diesels. It's called "Torque Rise" and I see it as what the turbo causes when it "comes on"

Odd that I see this tonight, & just this morning I read where Ray Bohacz, in an answer to a question in Hemmings Muscle Machines, stated that the USAF spec'd Buick V-8s for the SR-71 start carts due to the Buick's "torque rise @ low rpm". Is he using the wrong term or can gasoline engines "come up on the cam" like when the boost comes in on our trucks?

 

[NIsaacs]

Thanks KC. yes, scavenging. Not many understand exactly how the 'ol screamers work. I was going to tango with Nick, but pizza happened.

Back to the OP.

I think I know what the chap was trying to describe and explain, and it's something unique to turbocharged diesels. It's called "Torque Rise" and I see it as what the turbo causes when it "comes on", and the AFC is on point. I don't think normally aspirated diesels have torque rise. You won't experience it in a Camry,

Okay, tango away:-laf

The video didn't teach me anything, too complicated, lol However, I think all engines have torque rise, even my 7.5 hp. Kohler. The way I understand it, is, it is the difference in torque at rated maximum rpm v/s torque, at rated torque peak. If an engine has 600 lb. ft. at 2600 rpm but 900 lb. ft. at 1500 rpm, that difference is torque rise. I think the bigger the difference is, the better the engines ability to over come resistance.

Case in point....that's why an old small cam 335 Cummins, might pull a given hill with a given load of logs in top gear, while the poor guy in the 'ol 318 powered Detroit, might need to grab several gears

Nick

 

[Wayne M.]

Okay, tango away:-laf
Case in point....that's why an old small cam 335 Cummins, might pull a given hill with a given load of logs in top gear, while the poor guy in the 'ol 318 powered Detroit, might need to grab several gears

Nick

And that's proof that the blower on the driprtroit isn't a power adder. It needs it there just to run. Add a turbo, and you'll increase the rise. I agree that all engines have torque rise, but in a NA application, it's so slight.
We know that air flows in only one direction in a 2 stroke Detroit head right?
Z Wango Z Tango!