Def-loc use at own risk

[BEM_Nikola]

Hi, folks,

Nicole Smith here from BEM Auto. We are a small manufacturing company which makes and sells the DEF-Loc on the open market under the brand name "BEM Auto".

The purpose of my response here is to address the implications in this thread which may be understood by readers as reflecting back upon BEM Auto.

Firstly, the BEM Auto name is marked clearly on the units which we sell to our individual customers. If you contact us for warranty repairs or refunds on units sold by Geno's Garage under "Geno's Garage" brand name, it is a violation of business ethics for BEM Auto to conduct customer service for Geno's Garage.

In this particular case, we were contacted by the OP on January 8, 2018. We were told that the e-clip "fell off" the DEF-Loc into the DEF tank. In all reality, the e-clip cannot fall off unless it has been deformed by abuse or deformed by careless disassembly. If in fact the OP heard a "popping sound", as is claimed in this thread, that means that the locking mechanism was wrenched past the natural stop in the device. These are fine mechanisms, which is why we include detailed instructions, to our own customers, in the installation and removal. I believe that Geno's Garage also offers instructions in how to use the DEF-Loc.

We were supplied with photos of the DEF-Loc by the OP which were clear enough to show evidence of abuse. Believing the OP was a BEM Auto customer, we asked him to return the unit to us for investigation. Our warranty policy with our customers does not cover abuse to the DEF-Loc, but because the product is new on the market and because we find the good will of our customers more valuable than the cost of the effort to refurbish an abused DEF-Loc, we had no issue whatsoever receiving the unit back in anticipation of the OP's decision to refurbish or refund his purchase.

We received the OP's DEF-Loc by January 17, 2018 and saw immediately that it was a unit sold to the OP by Geno's Garage under "Geno's Garage" brand name. We did examine the unit, found it to be broken by abuse, and photographed the damage. We let the OP know that he'd have to contact the owner of the brand name to make a warranty claim. We also requested him to inform us as to whether he wanted us to return the DEF-Loc to him or forward it to Geno's Garage. We have never been instructed by the OP to return the DEF-Loc to him or to forward it to Geno's Garage. After we advised the OP to contact the company from which he purchased the DEF-Loc, we have received no further correspondence from the OP, in particular (to belabor the point), no request to have the DEF-Loc returned or forwarded.

We have no way of knowing that the OP has an e-clip sitting in his tank, as no one in this forum does.

 

[Minnow101]

So you manufactured the product but because it was sold thru a vendor, that apparently absolves you of doing the right thing ? Your expectation is that Geno's is responsible for assisting the customer ? If I was Geno's, I'd think long and hard about continuing a business relationship with your outfit.

 

[Learjet]

So you manufactured the product but because it was sold thru a vendor, that apparently absolves you of doing the right thing ? Your expectation is that Geno's is responsible for assisting the customer ? If I was Geno's, I'd think long and hard about continuing a business relationship with your outfit.

I guess you miss the part that says it has Geno's name on it, so essentially it is their product?

I think your comments are pretty harsh...just saying

 

[TMyers]

So you manufactured the product but because it was sold thru a vendor, that apparently absolves you of doing the right thing ? Your expectation is that Geno's is responsible for assisting the customer ? If I was Geno's, I'd think long and hard about continuing a business relationship with your outfit.

"The Right Thing". If the OP buggered it up, and they didn't sell it, what's their responsibility? They offered to send the product to Geno's for the OP. I think that is The Right Thing. It's a re-branded product. No body is reinventing the wheel.

Also, the way I read BEM's response was they were willing to refund or replace the cap until they saw it came from Geno's. I'm sure they have a contract with Geno's and I would bet they were following it. The OP should have contacted BEM and said thanks for your help and please send the cap to Geno's. That doesn't seem that hard to me. The OP got "Butt Hurt" for being called out for buggering up the DEF-Loc, period. That's why he came onto a public Forum blasting the product.

This is just how I read the thread. Your interpretation may be different.

 

[Minnow101]

Geno's didn't design or manufacture the cap. They are just the reseller. Geno's didn't request the OP to return the cap to them for inspection; the manufacturer did. The manufacturer should of replaced the cap and everyone would of been satisfied. Whose to say the OP buggered up the cap ? Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't.

Additionally, I don't think it is incumbent upon the buyer to contact BEM and request they send a new cap to Geno's who in turn would send it the the buyer. Who would even think of doing that convoluted process ? Once the manufacturer had direct communication with the buyer and requested that return of the cap, then the manufacturer assumes the responsibility of making this right.

And yeah, I would of been "butt-hurt" too after spending $100 and having a defective product with no support from the manufacturer.

 

[TMyers]

Whether it was defective or buggered up, why not allow Geno's to make it right or try to resolve the issue. I think that's all BEM was instructing the OP to do. They were even willing to forward it to Geno's for him. That seems legit, to me.

 

[BEM_Nikola]

So you manufactured the product but because it was sold thru a vendor, that apparently absolves you of doing the right thing ? Your expectation is that Geno's is responsible for assisting the customer ? If I was Geno's, I'd think long and hard about continuing a business relationship with your outfit.

Minnow101,

1) We did not sell the product to the OP. Geno's Garage has its own policies for products they have branded in which we cannot interfere.

2) The DEF-Loc was broken by abuse that it incurred. It did not fail by any defect in the product.

3) We were never asked to do anything by the OP other than forward his photos to Geno's Garage, which we did. We asked the OP several times what he wanted and never got an answer.

We did do the right thing, just like we would do if someone sent us a Stant or Gates locking cap.

-- Nicole

 

[Cummins2014]

So you manufactured the product but because it was sold thru a vendor, that apparently absolves you of doing the right thing ? Your expectation is that Geno's is responsible for assisting the customer ? If I was Geno's, I'd think long and hard about continuing a business relationship with your outfit.

Did you somehow miss the " Violation of business ethics " and the " Abuse " , what argument are you trying to make. It was misused, what part does the manufacturer or seller have in any responsibility.

 

[bigblock_doc]

Glue a magnet to the bottom of the tank. Driving it around will move the clip and it will get stuck to
the magnet on the inside.

 

[Jared Herzog]

Would photos of the part in question be appropriate for this thread? Might give us a better idea of what abuse if any the part was subjected to. It may also help us to see what to avoid doing with our own def locks to avoid the same issue. I would hope any abuse would be accidental or because the owner was unsure about how the unit functioned. Photos would allow us to make sure we were operating our products correctly.

 

[BEM_Nikola]

Hi, Jared,

I will gladly supply the investigation photos which we took. I do not have permission to post the photos which the OP originally sent me, but if you know what to look for in the photo the OP posted in this thread, you can see the same damage as shown closer up in my photos.

In the OP's photo, on the surface of the plastic ward around where the Secure Screw comes through, you can see a darkened imprint where the e-clip was and some puckering around the hole. Also in the OP's photo, on the Secure Screw itself, above the groove for the e-clip, there are several areas that are brighter than others which were gouged and lifted as the e-clip was forcefully ejected leaving a non-uniform surface.

In our photos below, you can see the damage from the abuse much more clearly. The first photo shows the immense deformation in the surface of the plastic in the general shape of the e-clip. The second and third photos show the same damage on the Secure Screw with different contrast levels to illustrate both the deep gouging of a "thread" in the surface of the stainless steel as well as the deformation of some of the stainless steel back into the groove. You can also see in the second and third photos around the Secure Screw that the surface of the plastic is no longer flat; plastic was raised up. The fourth photo shows a little different contrast than the first and more zoom looking down on the surface of the plastic. You can see the puckering around the hole caused by the abusive operation of the DEF-Loc.

There is no good reason to wrench the DEF-Loc past the unlocked condition, which is what happened in the case of this DEF-Loc. I have personally assembled hundreds of DEF-Locs, and do 100% inspection on the operation of the locking mechanisms; these do not fail accidentally. It takes quite an effort to deform the e-clip into the plastic ward and force it to open up to the point it will shoot off the end of the Secure Screw gouging the stainless steel as it goes off.

 

[TMyers]

From BEM's pictures, it looks to me like the groove is still intact, just "buggered" where the original e-clip was pushed over it. If that's the case, would a new e-clip not fix it? I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned it took more time and effort to complain then it would have to get a new one at the hardware store.

As far as the e-clip in the DEF tank... How in the world could anyone get that much force, inside the fuel fill door, to push the e-clip over the groove.

I may be completely wrong here... Just how I see it.

 

[sag2]

From BEM's pictures, it looks to me like the groove is still intact, just "buggered" where the original e-clip was pushed over it. If that's the case, would a new e-clip not fix it? I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned it took more time and effort to complain then it would have to get a new one at the hardware store.

As far as the e-clip in the DEF tank... How in the world could anyone get that much force, inside the fuel fill door, to push the e-clip over the groove.

I may be completely wrong here... Just how I see it.

Not having one to look at I'm assuming it has some sort of thread or cam lock to tighten the cap. Turning it too tight or past the "stop" more than likely can put enough force on the E-clip to push it out of the grove.
I'm also not sure why the OP would have sent a Geno's branded cap back to BEM without first trying to go through the seller first. I think BEM has done a great job of pointing out that it isn't defective, and was more than reasonable in their actions. I think they show that they care enough to post their factual findings here, rather than let the internet speculate on who is responsible for what.

 

[BEM_Nikola]

From BEM's pictures, it looks to me like the groove is still intact, just "buggered" where the original e-clip was pushed over it. If that's the case, would a new e-clip not fix it? I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned it took more time and effort to complain then it would have to get a new one at the hardware store.

As far as the e-clip in the DEF tank... How in the world could anyone get that much force, inside the fuel fill door, to push the e-clip over the groove.

I may be completely wrong here... Just how I see it.

The OP would not have needed to go to the hardware store, we would have sent him a new e-clip had he requested it. We even would have sent him a new Secure Screw and locking ward had he requested it. Until we discovered he had a Geno's Garage brand product, we were prepared upon his request to refurbish the DEF-Loc (replace/reassemble whatever needed it) for him and send it back even though it would have been outside of warranty due to abuse. Simply to win the good will of our customer. The fact is, the OP never told us what he wanted. We requested his DEF-Loc back, under the OP's pretense that it was a BEM Auto brand product, in anticipation that he would choose to have it refurbished or refunded. After several back-and-forths before we received the DEF-Loc, we never got from him what he wanted.

 

[14ram]

Wow,

Talk about zero credibility now I abused my def-loc by opening it twice in 7 months to refill my tank what a joke. This same organisation would not even admit to manufacturing this product that failed. Obviously I cannot prove it as the def-loc in no longer in my possesion but the photo representing my def-loc with the gouge in it looks nothing like mine which was in like new condition minus the e-clip obviously.

********* continously mentioned they had no further contact from me and didnt know what they wanted me to do absolutely false. They told me to contact genos which I told them I would do.

A poster mentioned genos should be careful who they do business with I 100% agree but didnt feel it was my place to dictate to genos who they do or dont do business with.

Geno’s garage refunded my purchase price including shipping lastweek which was most appreciated. As mentioned I am all for supporting small business but ********* needs to take a long hard look at customer service and stand behind the product they are producing for consumers.

As this forum is for ram/cummins folks my def pump is still functioning no issues to date with the eclip laying in the tank I bought this truck to last 20years I figure the def will have dissolved the clip well before then!

 

[14ram]

Bem name blocked from post

 

[BEM_Nikola]

Wow,

Talk about zero credibility now I abused my def-loc by opening it twice in 7 months to refill my tank what a joke. This same organisation would not even admit to manufacturing this product that failed. Obviously I cannot prove it as the def-loc in no longer in my possesion but the photo representing my def-loc with the gouge in it looks nothing like mine which was in like new condition minus the e-clip obviously.

********* continously mentioned they had no further contact from me and didnt know what they wanted me to do absolutely false. They told me to contact genos which I told them I would do.

A poster mentioned genos should be careful who they do business with I 100% agree but didnt feel it was my place to dictate to genos who they do or dont do business with.

Geno’s garage refunded my purchase price including shipping lastweek which was most appreciated. As mentioned I am all for supporting small business but ********* needs to take a long hard look at customer service and stand behind the product they are producing for consumers.

As this forum is for ram/cummins folks my def pump is still functioning no issues to date with the eclip laying in the tank I bought this truck to last 20years I figure the def will have dissolved the clip well before then!

You might want to take a moment to review the definition of libel at Law.com.

 

[14ram]

You might want to take a moment to review the definition of libel at Law.com.

I am at a loss for words....MAGA?

 

[BEM_Nikola]

I am at a loss for words....MAGA?

The point that I am trying to get across is that I can prove what I have published. You claim that you cannot prove what you have published.

What I don't understand is why anything we wrote to you would upset you. If you were looking for a refund, and Geno's Garage supplied it, then I also don't understand the reluctance to seek out your vendor.

I hope the best for you, and hope that you can look at this thread more objectively in the future, seeing that I am not being unreasonable here. We're all sympathetic to your position here, but you do have to recognize that representing yourself and the situation inaccurately can cause communication breakdowns, misunderstandings and ultimately bad blood.

 

[14ram]

The point that I am trying to get across is that I can prove what I have published. You claim that you cannot prove what you have published.

What I don't understand is why anything we wrote to you would upset you. If you were looking for a refund, and Geno's Garage supplied it, then I also don't understand the reluctance to seek out your vendor.

I hope the best for you, and hope that you can look at this thread more objectively in the future, seeing that I am not being unreasonable here. We're all sympathetic to your position here, but you do have to recognize that representing yourself and the situation inaccurately can cause communication breakdowns, misunderstandings and ultimately bad blood.

I have my photos I also have my emails you flat out insinuated I abused this def loc which I did not please tell me how a e clip could cause that type of damage to another piece of steel? We are dealing with a plastic def fill neck here, maybe in the interest of science I should obtain a plastic fill neck from a junk yard purchase a couple more of these def locs and test it to destruction.
Please tell me why in your photo there is surface rust covering the end when my def loc showed zero rusting?

You continue to ask as do others why didnt i send the def loc to genos you made this you are the manufacturer of this product when I contacted you I was told to send it in for examination which I did this proved to be a mistake on my part I will readily admit that. Your reaction upon discovering I had not purchased it directly from you stunned me I felt as stated in my email that I had purchased a cheap chinese knock off. I totally understand you dont want to be held liable for any damages your part may cause but to insinuate I am lying and abused this product is wrong.

To make it worse you then go on to intimate possible legal action against me for what? Advising other ram owners that using this product in its current form could be detrimental to our emissions systems.

You are a self described small business startup company I applaud that, in this current economic environment I believe you should do very well but calling a customer a liar, ducking and running when questioned via email and intimating legal proceedings doesnt sit well with me as the end user of said product.

I am done here I would ask the admin/moderators to preserve this entire text as I will retain my photos, emails and other evidence should this manufacturer wish to follow through with legal proceedings against me.